The Merciless (Dark Multiverse) upgrade to high 1-A

[DarkNoble]

Coming off of reading the Dark Multiverse comics and grasping an understanding of them, I thought it was best to roam the pages on VSB made for them. My favourite character of the Dark Knights, being The Merciless, was placed at 4-B, due to the nature of him defeating heroes such as, Wonder Woma , whilst also taking hits from other characters such as; a Purified Red Death and the Flash.

However my argument for him being placed into the tier of high 1-A is primarily due to his comparisons of defeating the Old Gods also being noted he had defeated Ares off panel, if positive assumptions are made correctly (primarily from the panel about his helmet granting his powers but multiplied by a 'hundrethfold' ). Being compared to characters such as these should also place his speed on scales ranging from, immeasureable to irrelevant.

If there are any disagreements with the points I have made, fill free to add my discord 『*+Foncé ├ëtoile+*』#9951 and I can provide much further arguments/points as to why he should be placed on this tier.

 

[Dante_on_Discord]

>implying the Justice league is 4-B consistently

 

[Kappatalism]

The justice league is 4-B consistantly. Even if they did fight true darkseid

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

The Old Gods he defeated were his universe's versions of the Olympians, and by definition those weren't the True Forms. The True Forms are High 2-A, not 1-A, but they don't apply here either way. If you had proof that his universe's Olympians were equal to Post-Crisis versions then you'd maybe have a case for 3-A, at which point it would be a pretty clear outlier that Diana was able to fight against him. But not all Olympian avatars in the Orrery are the same power level so you wouldn't be able to make that case in the first place.

 

[DarkNoble]

The Old Gods he defeated were his universe's versions of the Olympians, and by definition those weren't the True Forms. The True Forms are High 2-A, not 1-A, but they don't apply here either way. If you had proof that his universe's Olympians were equal to Post-Crisis versions then you'd maybe have a case for 3-A, at which point it would be a pretty clear outlier that Diana was able to fight against him. But not all Olympian avatars in the Orrery are the same power level so you wouldn't be able to make that case in the first place.

Have you viewed the DC Cosmology and where the Old Gods are? Nonetheless he has to travel to that area in order for his 'one man war' to be enacted. Which would show that he hadn't faced the avatars of those gods, more so he had faced the true forms of them.

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

Yes I have, and I think this stems from you misunderstanding how the cosmology works. The Old Gods' True Forms have never appeared on panel. The Old Gods in Post-Crisis, in Post-Flashpoint, in Injustice, in Elseworld stories, and here are all, by definition, avatars. Just being in Olympus does not mean you're interacting with the True Forms. There are as many variations of Olympus within the Orrery as there are avatars of the Old Gods, and we have never seen the True version of Olympus.

Also the True Forms are not 1-A, they're High 2-A.

 

[Kappatalism]

Yes I have, and I think this stems from you misunderstanding how the cosmology works. The Old Gods' True Forms have never appeared on panel. The Old Gods in Post-Crisis, in Post-Flashpoint, in Injustice, in Elseworld stories, and here are all, by definition, avatars. Just being in Olympus does not mean you're interacting with the True Forms. There are as many variations of Olympus within the Orrery as there are avatars of the Old Gods, and we have never seen the True version of Olympus.

Also the True Forms are not 1-A, they're High 2-A.

What? How are they high 2A?

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

Zeus' page has the reasoning

 

[DarkNoble]

Yes I have, and I think this stems from you misunderstanding how the cosmology works. The Old Gods' True Forms have never appeared on panel. The Old Gods in Post-Crisis, in Post-Flashpoint, in Injustice, in Elseworld stories, and here are all, by definition, avatars. Just being in Olympus does not mean you're interacting with the True Forms. There are as many variations of Olympus within the Orrery as there are avatars of the Old Gods, and we have never seen the True version of Olympus.
Also the True Forms are not 1-A, they're High 2-A.

[https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/08/18/the-map-of-the-multiverse

I do hope you're reffering to this map that is on the DC offical website, plus you would need to present any evidence that the gods that The Merciless had faced were not their true forms, as previously preformed by Gods like Ares, they had capabilites of facing the true forms of New Gods . So whats not to say that The Merciless has the capabilites of facing Old Gods, like Zeus and Poseidon.

 

[Dante_on_Discord]

Zeus' page has the reasoning

"Comparable to true form highfather"

So 1-A

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

@DarkNoble

Those weren't the New Gods True Forms. The first True Form we saw was Darkseid in Final Crisis. Morrison stated he had never appeared before, meaning the New Gods from Byrne's run were also not the True Forms.

@Dante on Discord

If you want to upgrade True Forms to 1-A then be my guest and make the CRT, I still haven't read the 80s run so for all I know there's evidence I've never seen before. But for now they're not 1-A.

 

[Dante_on_Discord]

@Dante on Discord

If you want to upgrade True Forms to 1-A then be my guest and make the CRT, I still haven't read the 80s run so for all I know there's evidence I've never seen before. But for now they're not 1-A.

If you haven't read the appearances you shouldn't comment. Also have you not read the pannels of Batman making the platonic bullet to kill darksied?

 

[PrinceOfTheMorning]

You know that old saying about assuming?

I said I didn't read the 80s run. I have read all Jack Kirby material, all Mr. Miracle runs, all Byrne material, all JLA Morrison material, and all 7 Soldiers/Final Crisis/Multiversity material.

"Also have you not read the pannels of Batman making the platonic bullet to kill darksied?"

Yes, I have, and the platonic New God idea has been brought up in old threads but nothing came of it. So again, if you want to make them 1-A then feel free to make a CRT for it.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, 1-A True Forms have been rejected many times due to being an outlier.

 

[Dante_on_Discord]

Yes, I have, and the platonic New God idea has been brought up in old threads but nothing came of it. So again, if you want to make them 1-A then feel free to make a CRT for it.

I'm not concerned with changing the page as I doubt Matt will pull his head out of his ass to accept new scaling. Do you disagree with 1-A New God's despite reading platonic bullet scan.

 

[DarkNoble]

Yeah, 1-A True Forms have been rejected many times due to being an outlier.

In what regard have they become an outlier? There are many statements that can support the fact that they achieve such a tier, either from older comics or newer.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Yeah, I wouldn't know. I don't know DC well enough to say, I'm just pointing out that they've been rejected on those grounds before.

 

[DarkNoble]

@DarkNoble

Those weren't the New Gods True Forms. The first True Form we saw was Darkseid in Final Crisis. Morrison stated he had never appeared before, meaning the New Gods from Byrne's run were also not the True Forms.

@Dante on Discord

If you want to upgrade True Forms to 1-A then be my guest and make the CRT, I still haven't read the 80s run so for all I know there's evidence I've never seen before. But for now they're not 1-A.

What made you think that if one characters true form is presented in one iteration that those that can possess true forms before hand cannot have them or be in that state?

 

[Dante_on_Discord]

Yeah, I wouldn't know. I don't know DC well enough to say, I'm just pointing out that they've been rejected on those grounds before.

You shouldn't be a sheep and rep these stances that are only used because Matt thinks X.

 

[The_Wright_Way]

I'm not, I'm not even getting involved. I'm just a passing bystander pointing out that it's been done before. Don't go wailing on me for pointing something out. Sheesh.

 

[DarkNoble]

I'm not, I'm not even getting involved. I'm just a passing bystander pointing out that it's been done before. Don't go wailing on me for pointing something out. Sheesh.

Being neutral on this is fine, more so its just the natural reaction of when someone disregards feats that can place DC characters at such a tier

 

[Zeckels]

seems good ask Lream.

 

[Kappatalism]

I'm not, I'm not even getting involved. I'm just a passing bystander pointing out that it's been done before. Don't go wailing on me for pointing something out. Sheesh.

Why are you derailing?