The MCU changes. Edit: Looks like we need to finalize some stuff and we need to do more work on the calcs

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Actually if we use the less wank star calc its two vs one, and I don't see why we would scale the whole cast so massively above their other feats in previous films. Im willing to accept the meteorite calc but only because their aren't feats after or before it to contradict it as the characters are all in stronger forms from that point on. (And I still find it contentious)

 

[Revan_Laha]

We actually have verses like DMC jumping from 7-A to 3-A in just one tier change

 

[InfiniteSped]

For the meteor one, we actually see the thing hitting the ground, and it's clearly not hitting with that much energy. Even if you say the speed it is moving is just cinematic timing, the damage it does when it reaches the ground is not even close to the KE calced.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

But this is before thor jumped tiers, before he got storm breaker this thor hasn't gotten stronger since sikarr theirs zero reason he should now be above the explosion that killed sutur a being he couldn't even meaningfully harm

@sped, Im well aware and have mentioned it before

 

[Revan_Laha]

I have something

Surtur could be less durable than strong. He can calculate the explosion Surtur withstood and scale Hulk from there. Hulk is definitely beneath awakened Thor. Also the Awakened Thor that Hulk fought is his first time

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

What the explosion isn't even suturs, its from him cracking the core of asgard, the explosion is an outside source he doesn't tank and doesn't create. Further your suggesting that awakened thor should be strong enough to beat sutur assuming that the ending with him and hulk running away makes no sense, it's clear sutur is above them in strength and dura as hulk can't even scratch sutur and thor insist they run away.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Well for one unless we assume thor and hulk are above sutur it's a massive outlier as a 6c explosion was enough to kill him, someone hulk couldn't even really harm beyond jumping on his face. (I also still argue about wether it should even be ap applicable, all thor did was break some ice and the rings move on their own from their, to me it should just be a lifting strength feat) Theres no way we can scale the main cast that high that early without some major contradictions.

Could be AP applicable. Could be like pushing a car at a definite speed. We don't use KE calcs only in case of speedster. Remember the High 6-C ratings of DCEU come from a KE calc

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Still doesn't change the fact this makes thor stronger then the explosion that killed sutur which makes him and hulk running away at the end of ragnarock make zero sense. Fair enough about the ke portion just find it bizzare.

 

[Newendigo]

We have Low 6-B Niva that was accepted.

We have 6-C Iron Meteor that it's getting complicated.

We have High 6-B Thanos FISTING that is was being discussed.

We have a 7-B Wakanda Storm, which was super casual and I personally think that it should not be used as Thor's max power.

And High 6-C Blown Surtur that is used as an Anti-Feat.

Just mentioning the relevant calcs.

 

[Revan_Laha]

I don't think the rings moved on their own. Its simple tug of war physics.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Acepted but contradicted by suturs death and thors near death to the star if using less inflated values...

6c ke meteor impacts that clearly slow down and don't impact with nearly the level of energy the calc implies.

thanos fisting is compared to a speculative value that is unimportant as there are clearlly other ways to interact witht the cube using far less energy.

 

[Newendigo]

Pen@ Then you have to convince DMUA that the calc can't be used...

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

It can be accepted, the math can be correct, whether we use it or not is a separate issue. Sutur who is above hulk and thor at the time dies to 6c explosion, thor and hulk being massively stronger then this explosion contradicts the entire movie as they struggle to even harm suturs final form. Said final form again dies to 6c levels of energy it can't even produce or tank.

Thanos squeezing the tesseract has been around for ever but was ignored because it contradicts other feats, (also the fact the cube can clearly be interacted with without 120 million k, a heat we never see used on the tesseract) I fail to see how this is different

 

[Newendigo]

You know that lower feats can also be regarded as an oultier right?

We have Surtur anti-feat Vs 2 feats supports Low 6-B and High 6-B.

We can't also say that that they cap out at 7-B due to the Neutron Star, because Thor's Wakanda Storm is a casual 7-B, and Asura's recalc of the Meteor, was also 7-B with Iron Man being complety undamaged.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

No we have one feat at 6b pre storm breaker. un boosted awakened thor we have one 6b feat and one 6c feat thats displayed as massivly above him, I fail to see why we would take the far higher end. I only bring up the nuetron star recalc as support for this feat being an outlier for thors strength.

 

[Newendigo]

Storm Breaker doesn't boost Thor's physical lmao, it's a higher Tier weapon that allows him to easily one-shot Thanos, but doesn't increase his power.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Really didn't it also heal him? The 6c iron man feat was recalced to 7b with more reasonable numbers, which lines up with thors storm creation feat and the less inflated nuetron star feat. Thanos squeezing the cube is still questionable.

 

[Newendigo]

Can you even confirm me the Timeframe between the Wakanda War and Thor making Stormbreaker? Also Thor has a healing factor own his own.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Yeah but they desperatly try to get the hammer into his hands to save his life so I assume it boost him all around. No I cant, (I probably could find something with enough internet searching but Im lazy) does it matter?

 

[InfiniteSped]

It's like in Thor 1 when Mjolnir heals him and gives his powers back

 

[Newendigo]

No, they were for a stick to put the pieces together before they cool down, and it matters because it could have some time for him to heal.

Another point I want to bring with the Star feat, regardless of which calc was right, Thor was damaged by heat, which is different to force, as Thor suffered both external and internal injures all over his body due to heat transfer.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

In that case the heat rating used by the tesseact is worthless as we have no reason to believe the tesseact can tank the same amount of physical force as it can heat... making its 6b feat questionable.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

The dwarf, Eitri quite clearly says he needs the axe when rocket said thor was dying...

 

[Newendigo]

I didn't recall that many instances where his weapons healed him...

Still, by no means it should increase his physical stats.

 

[Revan_Laha]

Just saying when will we have our thread to downgrade characters to Tier 8 coz Spider-Man caught Cull Obsidian's hammer and Cull harmed Iron Man?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

When they have two feats to support their rating(one of those feats being highly contentious) and the other contradicting the events of the last movie? Ill work to downgrade them right away!

 

[KLOL506]

One should keep in mind that Thor was being blasted by the star for several minutes. If he got knocked out within a second, sure, it'd be unacceptable, but that simply isn't the case here.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

So he was nearly killed after several minutes of 7b energy? MUST BE 6-B! MUST BE STRONGER THEN THE EXPLOSION THAT KILLED SUTUR! The being they couldn't even scratch in the last movie. How could I be so blind!

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

All right sorry for being a jerk, we didn't disregard suturs feat, we noted it didn't scale to suturs ap as he doesn't create the explosion, its a chain reaction from him breaking asgards core. Him dying that level of energy is perfectly valid, its just we cant scale anything to it as nothing ever tanks it and sutur doesn't create it.

We also agreed hulk staggering sutur is meaningless as he doesn't actually damage him.

 

[KLOL506]

Pretty sure the calc was High 6-C-ish but I guess it got downgraded a few days ago

 

[KLOL506]

Actually it's Low 6-B

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

We recalced it 7b using the average temperture of nuetron star as the calced value they were using isn't possible with the stars age, (They can't maintain that heat evena few years after forming just going off thors hammer the star is thousands of years old, well past the point where it could be that temp) using that value we got seven b and we decided to disregard it as nuetron stars are wildly inconsistent when it comes to heat.

 

[KLOL506]

Spino debunked it by saying the 7-B calc had too many assumptions. Check the comments above.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

No he agreed to throw the feat out as nuetron stars vary wildly in temperture, the fact is it can't be as hot as that calc suggest (they can't maintain that temp even few years after forming, the nuetron star is thousands of years old just based off thors hammer) , we agreed to disregard the feat all together.

 

[KLOL506]

Oh well.

Also KE via moving objects is applicable if said object is massive. It's why Superman is 4-B and has Stellar lifting strength at the same time.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

That doesn't fix the fact with that ap thor could oneshot sutur...which clearly isn't the case.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Fair enough about the ke though, I just personally find it odd. Sorry for my rude comment earlier, Ive been in three of these threads and their no less exhausting then the first. It was unbecoming of me and I offer my sincere apologies.

 

[KLOL506]

Captain Marvel is Low 6-B and Thanos took hits from her. Hulk staggered him for a while. If anything Surtur's feat is turning out to be an anti-feat at this point.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Captain marvel 6b was debunked in the earlier thread where it became clear she never full on tanks one of the kree missiles, she at most flies through the wreakage post detonation (And those missiles have considerably smaller explosions in several scenes compared to the single scene of them nuking a continent on an alien world.)

The rest of your post is scaling off captain marvel (Which I wouldn't be comfortable with anyway as she's meant to be above everything else), as she isn't 6b I don't see how his feat is an outlier...

 

[Newendigo]

Won't taking Captain Marvel as the strongest (Which is trash for specific reasons) meant that she is massively above Surtur?