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The King wants his throne back (Ikki vs Jin Mo-Ri Redux) Grace

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Invisibility is not being visible. By tricking the brain into thinking you aren't where you are, you aren't visible. See the correlation?

If that was the case it would do anything at all because the opponent would still know that something is there, just not off-handedly since the subconscious doesn't work like that.

he'd be 1.2x faster than Jin and have lost his main advantage. Not exactly an ideal situation.
 
>Gonna be easy to percieve at 8x.

>Opponent amps to 10x

Yeah seems legit.

The difference that Jin will most likely immediately amp, while Ikki doesn't.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
Invisibility is not being visible. By tricking the brain into thinking you aren't where you are, you aren't visible. See the correlation?
If that was the case it would do anything at all because the opponent would still know that something is there, just not off-handedly since the subconscious doesn't work like that.

he'd be 1.2x faster than Jin and have lost his main advantage. Not exactly an ideal situation.
Click to expand...
No it's not tricking the brain the brain doesn't perceive invisibility because invisibility means not visible. For instance invisible matter. It isn't tricking the brain it just isn't visible. You're thinking of perception manipulation used to trick the brain into not seeing anything. These are two entirely different things.

No to the opponent the person just disappears and is suddenly in their face attacking them. Or just thinking they've disappeared that how it works in verse.

Doesn't matter he still has trackless step, phantom intetsu which allows him to steal stamina.
 
Stealing Mori's stamina does jack considering he fought 3 guys in rapid sucession while immensely fatigued and on the verge of collapse.

Plus acupuncture makes up for the stamina loss.
 
Doesn't steal. It prevents the stamina from going to parts of the body. Also 1 hit in the head or anywhere vital, is an instan unconscious state. So no accupunture.
 
Actully minor blows with Phantom Intetsu steals stamina. Major blows induces sleep. I mean stealing his stamina continously takes him out of his best state which should allow Ikki to captialise.
 
Would be nice if that was mentioned on the page, but i'm pretty sure that simply dodging would work against that.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Actully minor blows with Phantom Intetsu steals stamina. Major blows induces sleep. I mean stealing his stamina continously takes him out of his best state which should allow Ikki to captialise.
Click to expand...
That's what i thought too. But Ikki's description in volume 10 explains it:

The damage of《Illusory Form》chipped off their stamina directly, it didn't deal physical damage.

If an arm was cut, then that arm wouldn't move, there was actually no damage.

These were all temporary actions by means of strong『wrong impression』.

Essentially, this wrong impression by the Device acted strongly in the human body, it couldn't escape from that.

If they received a fatal wound, they would faint.
 
Also, I'm pretty sure Trackless step won't work on Mori because if Ikki disappears and reappears in front of Mori, he can just dodge. He has done so against teeth that literally spawn inside characters. He's fast and perceptive enough to dodge projectiles that spawn inside people.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
Would be nice if that was mentioned on the page, but i'm pretty sure that simply dodging would work against that.
Click to expand...
If they're at all close in skill like you're implying than I doubt he cna just keep dodging.
 
The thing about that......

Jin is vastly more skilled, since his skill was able to keep him alive for thousands of years of constant fighting against comparable opponents.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
The thing about that......
Jin is vastly more skilled, since his skill was able to keep him alive for thousands of years of constant fighting against comparable opponents.
Click to expand...
Yet ikki outdoes all his skill feats.

Yeah i agree Jin is more skilled despite inferior feats.
 
Sir Ovens said:
Also, I'm pretty sure Trackless step won't work on Mori because if Ikki disappears and reappears in front of Mori, he can just dodge. He has done so against teeth that literally spawn inside characters. He's fast and perceptive enough to dodge projectiles that spawn inside people.
Click to expand...
>Fast

Speed Equal

>Perceptive

I mean that's the whole point of the ability.

Then there is also stat amp, etc.
 
Sir Ovens said:
Also, I'm pretty sure Trackless step won't work on Mori because if Ikki disappears and reappears in front of Mori, he can just dodge. He has done so against teeth that literally spawn inside characters. He's fast and perceptive enough to dodge projectiles that spawn inside people.
Click to expand...
What if Ikki uses it like he did to make crowds not notice him. Like continously using it not stopping when infront of Jin.
 
Tbh from what ive seen Ikki's skill feats arnt super impressive outside the whole mastering a technique from a stance (Which makes no sense cause multiple techniques can use the same stance) so could you guys please list Ikki's best skill feats that apply to this key?
 
Yet ikki outdoes all his skill feats.

Yeah i agree Jin is more skilled despite inferior feats.

>Ikki outdoes all his skill feats

well nice not reading anything i posted, how do ya do? In all seriousness, i gave you a feat that is far greater than anything Ikki has ever done and you just act like it doesn't exist?

amazing

100/100 debating
 
I mean, guys just give up. Ikki has:

  • Better skill feats
  • Better skills
  • Better stat amp
  • Advantage of being uncopiable due to the fact that Jin doesn't have a sword
  • Better CQC range (sword vs hands)
  • Sure 1 hit move
  • The advantage of being unblockable (if jin blocks his arms will stop functioning)
What's the point of even arguing Jin can win here? Ikki outmatches in just about everything.
 
I told people this wasn't a good idea, but oh well. Who ever listens to me?

Maybe we shouldn't, considering how you aren't listening to anyone who says anything you don't like
 
Firephoenixearl said:
I mean, guys just give up. Ikki has:
  • Better skill feats
  • Better skills
  • Better stat amp
  • Advantage of being uncopiable due to the fact that Jin doesn't have a sword
  • Better CQC range (sword vs hands)
  • Sure 1 hit move
  • The advantage of being unblockable (if jin blocks his arms will stop functioning)
What's the point of even arguing Jin can win here? Ikki outmatches in just about everything.
Click to expand...
Tbh as I said he doesnt seem to, from the skill feats ive seen they arnt really impressive.

From everything ive seen Ikki's skill is wanked.

I could be wrong but thats why I asked for this keys skill feats.
 
PsychoWarper said:
Tbh from what ive seen Ikki's skill feats arnt super impressive outside the whole mastering a technique from a stance (Which makes no sense cause multiple techniques can use the same stance) so could you guys please list Ikki's best skill feats that apply to this key?
Click to expand...
  • Copying something from a stance
  • Being capable of precoging exact thoughts, emotions etc
  • Perfected a whole style 30 seconds after copying it.
  • Insane body control. As in being able to shut down senses, breathing, colors etc just by will, can ignore survival instincts.
  • Can fight normally while being unconscious.
  • Could dodge hundreds of bullets without looking or focusing (cus he was thinking of his boo), because he could locate every shot and bullet location with just his hearing.
  • Trackless Step (just read up on it, it's purely skill)
And much more, these are just some that come to mind.
 
If Jin touches Ikki once he's also done for. Acupuncture targets essential nerves and works on the cellular level. I could say the same about Ikki losing his limbs as well.
 
Hl3 or bust said:
Maybe we shouldn't, considering how you aren't listening to anyone who says anything you don't like
Click to expand...
It's not just me who's actually thinking this way, so dismiss stuff like that please.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
I mean, guys just give up. Ikki has:
Click to expand...
>skill feats

Refer to my last two posts. Jin is outright vastly more skilled and you can't just ignore this.

>better skills

Reasonable, although Re-Taekwondo is pretty funky even compared to other weird martial arts.

>better stat amp

True on paper. Ikki won't open with it while Jin most likely will, with the difference between them when boosted being rather small and not worth worrying about, and Jin can last far longer while boosted than Ikki.

>Advantage of being uncopiable due to the fact that Jin doesn't have a sword

Jin has replicated sword skills and used them with his hands or Yeoui

>Better CQC range (sword vs hands)

Ignoring the very blatant AoE that Jin has, but mostly true.

>Sure 1 hit move

Same can be said of basically any attack from a boosted Jin. Trackless Step doesn't work here as has already been discussed over discord.

>The advantage of being unblockable (if jin blocks his arms will stop functioning)

Jin literally never tried to block sword attacks in-universe, he always at least tried dodged them.
 
Sir Ovens said:
If Jin touches Ikki once he's also done for. Acupuncture targets essential nerves and works on the cellular level. I could say the same about Ikki losing his limbs as well.
Click to expand...
Ikki manipulated his nerves via body control....
 
Also precoging invisible arrows form an invisible opponent. Ikki also fights stronger opponents that can one shot him and wins. See Stella vs Ikki -

"From afar it certainly seemed like Stella's strikes were pushing Ikki back, but the reality was different. Against his tactics, her strikes were being completely negated. Using a soft defense that slowly drained away power―that might sound easy, but doing it was quite difficult. If the strength in blocking was even a little bit too high then his arm would be pulverized, and if it was even a tiny bit too low then he'd be cut down. The calculations of power, angle, timing―missing even one of these factors meant immediate failure, yet Stella's opponent handled all that without so much as breaking a sweat. At this realization, Stella felt an indescribable anxiety. It was an alarm bell, her sixth sense warning that the enemy before her was very dangerous!"
 
Anyway i have to go stream right now. So i will let this here. But @H13 "we discussed on discord" is not an argument boyo. As i said if you want them to count say it here. Nobody else heard your argument there so it's only fair right?
 
Ok those are pretty good but it isnt super insane.

  • Fighting while unconsious isnt all that impressive as its been done alot throught out fiction
  • The bullet dodging isnt impressive it sounds like just good hearing and reactions
  • Precoging exact thoughts and emotions doesnt seem skill, like at that point its just telepathy
  • "Perfected a whole style 30 seconds after copying it" Is basically the same thing that Mori has done.
The others are impressive however.
 
Fair. Unless i've forgotten something, the logic is that Trackless Step is perception manip which i don't agree with but whatever which is a sub-power of mind manip which Jin then resists. Before potency gets brought up, the Borrowed Power he resisted affected basically everyone at a highschool rally event, so it's most likely better.
 
Precog is done via skill not any magical power.

It says "likely" for a reason. If Jin isn't affect by the bite to turn him into a zombie in the first place than his mind cannot be manipulated.
 
Acupuncture that works on a cellular level isn't even close to something early Rakudai can resist. Like nanotechnology couldn't resuscitate a man hit my Mori's acupuncture. Plus, the shark tooth argument still stands. Mori was fighting against someone with comparable speed to him, so dodging the teeth was pure skill.

Also, Mori doesn't need to learn Ikki's moves, he can read them and make counters on the fly. He's done this with Daewi and his lesser clone has done it countless times. Kick of the Blue dragon was literslly made in response to Daewi's Blue Dragon Storm. If Ikki hits him with an attack he doesn't know, he'll creste one to counter it.
 
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