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The Hunter (Bloodborne) vs. Azami (Mekakucity)

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Except it literally doesn't.
 
It does, nowhere in the lore does it say or even imply that the hunter needs to move to be able to think
 
The actions do. And the lore does not directly contradict said actions. I'm not doubting Lore > Gameplay, that much is obvious for any Soulsborne player, but the Lore has no reason to trump gameplay here because they literally don't contradict each other at all.

As a side note, I believe I am dropping the argument. As it stands, the fight will continue with the equivalent of "no u" ad nauseam, until the thread maxes out on posts. Our points are made with all evidence presented, let's just let people vote already.
 
>Lore says he thinks to activate it

>Gameplay has him touch his face to activate it

>But they dont contradict each other

lol
 
They don't. They coincide. But, like I said, this is just us chasing our own tails at this point. I'll let the majority decide.
 
You can think and move at the same time. And when movement being interrupted causes the spell to be interrupted, and the spell description doesn't go into the entire ritual, yes, I think it's fair to say this isn't "just game mechanics".

I agree with Bambu, however, we've explained this numerous times and it's not really making any headway. Best to leave it to the voters at this rate.
 
Azami starts by Mindhaxing and Petrifying. Hunter resists mindhax, however with petrification:

  • Weekly argues that the Moon Presense would rewind time in response to petrification, and that the Hunter can time rewind through thought.
  • I argue no, in-game the ritual needs movement and is interrupted by stagger. The Moon Presense has only acted when the Hunter is killed, and Azami's petrification more than likely leaves the victims "alive" in a weird sort of way.
  • Incon argues that Azami would just go digital if the Hunter survives petrification, at which point neither can affect the other.
 
The counterargument to that was that the moon presence has no real reason to believe that being a pice of stone counts as alive, has no way to know that its temporary, and has no reason to leave them as such due to them being a sentent being that made the hunter their champion for a reason.
 
8-A doesn't exactly help with petrification via sight.

Hunter can hit ghosts and spirits, not digital data, which Azami would convert herself to. She'd also be inside of a given machine/on the internet, so it's not like the Hunter has any way of knowing where she is.

The counterargument to that was that the moon presence has no real reason to believe that being a pice of stone counts as alive, has no way to know that its temporary, and has no reason to leave them as such due to them being a sentent being that made the hunter their champion for a reason.

That's a pretty poor counterargument, seeing as the Moon Presense has never done anything like that, and you can't assume what it would do in other situations than how it acts in-game, which is only timehaxing in the case of actual death. It's like saying the MP would timehax if the Hunter got trapped in a pit.
 
Oh. Hey, this lovely thread.

1. Yeah, looks like Hunter base form is about to be 8-A since a viable calc was finally done comparing KE to lightning for their weapons (rather than applying flat movement speed lol).

2. Hunter can hit types of Non-Corporeals. Azami is made of data. So... no.
 
Hunter can hit ghosts and spirits, not digital data, which Azami would convert herself to. She'd also be inside of a given machine/on the internet, so it's not like the Hunter has any way of knowing where she is.

Isn't that self bfr?

That's a pretty poor counterargument, seeing as the Moon Presense has never done anything like that, and you can't assume what it would do in other situations than how it acts in-game

That is just wrong. We can very well do logical assumptions on what someone would do in a situation they weren't faced with.


Also, I hope you realize becoming a inanimate statue is not alive in any maner, right? You ignored the part of the argument that says the presence would see it as death.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Isn't that self bfr?

That is just wrong. We can very well do logical assumptions on what someone would do in a situation they weren't faced with.

Also, I hope you realize becoming a inanimate statue is not alive in any maner, right? You ignored the part of the argument that says the presence would see it as death.
Click to expand...
Nope. She's still on the battlefield, just unable to be hit.

You can't make a logical assumption on something that has never happened. Please, we already went over this like fifteen times.

We also went over that. The people who are petrified are alive. And I didn't because you can't honestly speak for the Moon Presense, and all we know is that it resurrects after death. Stop pretending "loltimehax" applies to every inconvenience the Hunter faces, I recommend you read this page. It's not up to me to prove the Moon Presense wouldn't do something, you have to prove it has and will act like that. Which you can't. All you can do is make unfounded assumptions.
 
1. Converting into data lol?

2. No, we can't, not if the logical argument A. is against anything the character HAS ever done and B. the character is specifically built to not exactly make sense for mortal minds.

3. Yes, it is. You'd have to scroll a lot to find it, but yes, it is. Not only that, Moon Presence shows no qualities of actively watching over the Hunter, which is like 99% of the argument here. It appears that the Dream resurrects the Hunter, which MP created- meaning it is triggered on death. Not that "oh hey look my boy is now stone, huh I better help him like I never did for any other Hunter I've ever interacted with ever"
 
You realize that every fight is based on logical assumption, right?

Like, we assume that saitama would start being serious once he realizes the enemy is as strong as him, eben if it has never happened. Same thing.


Alive? By what standard is that being alive? The moon presence has zero way of knowing that anyways, so all that it knows is that the hunter is now a piece of stone.
 
>You cant speak for the moon presence and say what it would do

>Proceeds to speak for the moon presence and say what it would do

lol
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
You realize that every fight is based on logical assumption, right?
Like, we assume that saitama would start being serious once he realizes the enemy is as strong as him, eben if it has never happened. Same thing.

Alive? By what standard is that being alive? The moon presence has zero way of knowing that anyways, so all that it knows is that the hunter is now a piece of stone.
Click to expand...
Hunter's timehax operates on resurrection, which by definition needs death to happen first. The timshax is tied to that, or at least that is how the MP applies it. I'm making tons of logical assumptions, you're making assumptions that don't operate on any form of logic.

Azami has the same ability as Marry. Who has the statues still concious and alive. We also don't treat Transmutation as death.

This is starting to get ridiculous. I've had and finished this argument with you several times over at this rate. I predict you're going to shift the argument to the Hunter's sign and whether that needs movement to continue the circular debate you're perpetuating with Weekly.
 
You can't extrapolate what the MP would do. We have seen what it does do.

Once again, though, the bending of words. It is an ugly little thing.

Just close this, Hunter's getting 8-A and I'm assuming at this point the opposition is just... stalling. Oof.
 
We absolutely treat transmutation as death, its why its able to bypass godly Regenerationn
 
WeeklyBattles said:
>You cant speak for the moon presence and say what it would do
>Proceeds to speak for the moon presence and say what it would do
Click to expand...
Nah, I'm just stating what it does in the game. Sadly you're trying to add layer upon layer of asumptions onto that which doesn't reflect that.
 
?

Godly Regen>Regular death. It bypasses it through incap.
 
Nah, I'm just stating what it does in the game. Sadly you're trying to add layer upon layer of asumptions onto that which doesn't reflect that.

If you rere honestly doing that you wouldbt be arguing with us
 
Washing my hands of this. Not gonna watch my favorite character get wanked into the ground. Cheers folks.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
If you rere honestly doing that you wouldbt be arguing with us
Click to expand...
Yes. I am. Am I saying something wrong about how the Moon Presense acts in-game?

The Time reset is on death in-game.
 
Like, if the character explicitly kills people through malicious transmutation then fine, but that's not the default assumption.
 
No its treated as death my dude
Shoot.

Oh wait, Azami doesn't kill with her ability.
 
That would mean that it wouldn't bypass godly regen though. Also, several past threads would disagree with that notion. This isn't even true petrification/transmutation by the look of it, more being a paralysis type deal. Even more, it explicitly shows that the victim remains living and conscious.
 
Thank you Wok

Time Manipulation (Every time the Hunter is killed time is automatically reversed to the point in time before he fought the enemy that killed him, resurrecting him in the process.)

like seriously it's on the dang profile.
 
@Dargoo Way to leave out the extremely important part about him being to rewind time manually, really helps your argument's legitimacy
 
Wokistan said:
That would mean that it wouldn't bypass godly regen though. Also, several past threads would disagree with that notion. This isn't even true petrification/transmutation by the look of it, more being a paralysis type deal. Even more, it explicitly shows that the victim remains living and conscious.
Click to expand...
Yes, which means the hunter can still think which means he can use the bold hunter mark to escape
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Dargoo Way to leave out the extremely important part about him being to rewind time manually, really helps your argument's legitimacy
Click to expand...
I mean, it's not like we discussed it two times already. In-game it requires movement, it fills a gap in the information provided by the description, and it is interupted when movement is interrupted.

I predict you're going to shift the argument to the Hunter's sign and whether that needs movement to continue the circular debate you're perpetuating with Weekly.

Add precognition to my profile.
 
And ive already explained two times why the movement isnt necessary as its just an in game mechanic and nothing more
 
I don't see how it's an in-game mechanic when it doesn't contradict the lore ouright and it's how the ability functions on the most basic level when actually used. The lore only states that it starts with a thought, and doesn't go into the entire process.

If you'd like, I don't see this argument ending, as we are both making the same points and are not moving an inch on our stances. I'd rather leave this thread up to other voters at this point.
 
It flat out contradicts the lore when in the lore all the mark is is a thought in the hunters head, you dont need to move to be able to think and the mark isn't able physical object so there's no reason why he would logically have to move to think
 
"By focusing one's thoughts on this rune"

It doesn't go into the entire process. It just begins with this, and moves onto the effect without stating any more. It's also rather vague.

I ask again if you'd like to cease arguing, so we can wait for more input. It's clear where we stand, and it's clear that we aren't moving on that.
 
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