The End of a Zamasu-flavored Era (Low 2-C CRT)

[ZillertheBucko]

Low 2-C battle of gods is really confusing but
The argument comes down to the rosat mainly, since the argument is since it affected something outside of space time it should be low 2-C
But Yknow what, I literally have. No idea how that even suggests low 2-C, and yet, I have no idea why it wouldn’t be low 2-C

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Tbh most of the time debating in general is a waste of time, it's seldom that you'll change someone's mind. Furthermore, I would say it's probably a bigger waste of time to argue on this site. Specifically if you're arguing against the mod's views.

I disagree entirely, ngl. It is certainly possible changing people's point of view, and even the mod's. I'm living proof of that, actually. ovo

But yeah, pointless discussion in this thread, since we have set standards already.

 

[ArmBill]

I disagree entirely, ngl. It is certainly possible changing people's point of view, and even the mod's. I'm living proof of that, actually. ovo

But yeah, pointless discussion in this thread, since we have set standards already.

For sure it possible, it's just seems rare like I said. Which is why personally I go into it as a entertainment perspective and not trying to change things perspective, but if my ideologies on cartoons gets people to change their mind then nice. When it comes to the mods it just not very pragmatic to debate them. Since they can just close the thread suddenly even if the majority agrees or other shenanigans. Like, it took this site years to accept moon level roshi even though he blew it up on screen , like bruhhh.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

But they eventually did anyway. That whole situation proves it is certainly possible to convince them. It takes patience, for sure.

 

[ArmBill]

But they eventually did anyway. That whole situation proves it is certainly possible to convince them. It takes patience, for sure.

It took patience a̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶g̶r̶a̶m̶m̶e̶r̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶v̶i̶d̶e̶o̶ ̶

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It took patience a̶n̶d̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶p̶r̶o̶g̶r̶a̶m̶m̶e̶r̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶v̶i̶d̶e̶o̶ ̶

Honestly, I'm fairly sure the staff don't care one bit about the seth video. Plenty of staff were arguing in favor of it anyway, even before that video. So meh, ngl.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I’d prefer to believe that Seth the programmer is like a horror movie villain for this wiki and when he posts a dragon ball downplayer dies in their sleep

 

[Teezar]

Then why isn't Zeref Low 2-C despite he can mess with 400 years? Simple, because that's not how Low 2-C works.

Time is infinite from default, and destroying all of it is standard Low 2-C. Just affecting finite time is not enough.

True with these. The staff's said it's 3A.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

True with these. The staff's said it's 3A.

Actually as far as Zeref goes, its not even an AP feat. Hence why he doesnt have a separate rating with Neo Eclipse at all anymore.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wow I didn't know using logic and saying "hey since this character X is faster than this character Y, and character Y is capable of doing this this fast, so character X must also be capable of doing this this fast" is completely faulty logic. Im sorry for that.

Every scan i've referred to in my argument.

Yeah, you're basically using the shockwaves somehow relating to merging with a really arbitrary way. Also, nothing here says he fully merged with the universe, and used the same scans debunked from OP about Beerus.

Honestly the opposition to this downgrade is becoming more and more pathetic. I'll just wait @AKM sama at this point.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

well, the fact that he began to affect time means he finished affecting space (it was stated that he was encasing earth, and judging by the visuals of space and his expansion, he was literally everywhere except for inside earth's atmosphere)
I don't even think this matters much, since apparently the wiki doesn't consider the space of universes to be infinite in the first place? All that matters right now is probably just time
mainly, the fact that he was able to affect an alternate timeline, and the distant past of that alternate timeline as well
it's such a big gap in time that I think it's pretty implied he affected all of it, since there wasn't going to be someone at the big bang in a time machine being like "yeah man zamasu is right here too"
it being an alternate timeline does not matter, all it means is that zamasu existed in multiple timelines simultaneously, as well as being able to exist in the past of said timeline
time travel in dragon ball is both timeline travel and normal time travel, the only reason it's between different timelines is that it prevents a paradox from happening that would affect the original present

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't think you understand what I meant. In the episode Zamasu has never shown to stopping expanding, meaning that we can't say that he finished to merge as we lack proof in the first place. Him appearing in other timelines is irrelevant, as that's literally only range between different timelines. Ergo he indeed started to merge with time, but just didn't finish yet, and thus only 3-A.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It's implied that Zamasu finished merging with the universe because we see him expand and fill up all of space after he took over the earth, and also because he started appearing in other timelines implying that he finished merging with the original one.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It's implied that Zamasu finished merging with the universe because we see him expand and fill up all of space after he took over the earth, and also because he started appearing in other timelines implying that he finished merging with the original one.

Nothing implied he did. We can easily interpret it as just merging with more timelines at the same time. He never stopped expanding, sans when Zeno killed him.

Again dude, stop saying "heavily implied", because it wasn't. We can perfectly interpret it as merging with only a limited fraction of time and it's still fine.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

He visibly stops expanding during the scene where he laughs man
In fact it looks like the only time he expanded was to cover up earth, which is a different case since he doesn’t do that for any other thing in the universe,
Compare the picture of his many faces in the galaxies to the picture of the his faces while being erased by zeno, and it makes it blatant that he stopped expanding

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Also just by scaling super shenron’s power to bring back all destroyed universes, it shouldn’t have taken more than a moment for zamasu to merge with everything

 

[StrymULTRA]

He visibly stops expanding during the scene where he laughs man

Not what I saw in the episode. He was still expanding.

Compare the picture of his many faces in the galaxies to the picture of the his faces while being erased by zeno, and it makes it blatant that he stopped expanding

Because there he was being killed lol.

Also Toei supports my idea.

Nothing here says he finished to merge.

Also just by scaling super shenron’s power to bring back all destroyed universes, it shouldn’t have taken more than a moment for zamasu to merge with everything

Shenron's powers are completely unrelated here, given their nature.

 

[Bernkastelll]

If zeno was capable of only erasing zamasu and leaving the rest, he would have done it. For example, zeno erased frost but left u6 team and the universe intact and alive. So he is perfectly capable of erasing a single target. The fact that he had to erase the entire future timeline in order to get rid of IZ IS PROOF THAT IZ became one with the future.

Thats a bad comparison, Zeno already erased several timelines just due being annoyed, he only erased Frost because they were in a Tournament, but Zeno said that if it happend again, he would erase the whole shit, Frost case is not the same as Zamasu, as Zeno was annoyed, and Frost event was in a tournament

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Nothing implied he did. We can easily interpret it as just merging with more timelines at the same time. He never stopped expanding, sans when Zeno killed him.

Again dude, stop saying "heavily implied", because it wasn't. We can perfectly interpret it as merging with only a limited fraction of time and it's still fine.

How did you know he never stopped expanding? Zamasu fusing with only a fraction of time is wrong, I addressed that already.

 

[StrymULTRA]

How did you know he never stopped expanding? Zamasu fusing with only a fraction of time is wrong, I addressed that already.

Because we just never saw him stopping. You're literally giving a feat that Zamasu didn't achieve yet. Plus TOEI Timeline says that he started to engulf the universe, and then "gets erased along the universe" from Zeno, implying he didn't finish to do so.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Thats a bad comparison, Zeno already erased several timelines just due being annoyed, he only erased Frost because they were in a Tournament, but Zeno said that if it happend again, he would erase the whole shit, Frost case is not the same as Zamasu, as Zeno was annoyed, and Frost event was in a tournament

Yeah, Zeno just erased everything because Goku taunted him in doing so and Zeno was already extremely pissed off. He just went ahead and erased everything, not that "he tried to erase Zamasu, but failed so he decided to erase all the stuff". Zeno was described as dangerous right because he'll erase everything for even the smallest annoyance.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Ok but can we confirm the translation of that timeline of events thing
It says zeno only erased the universe, yet, we consider it that zeno erased the whole timeline from existence, or at least the multiverse

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok but can we confirm the translation of that timeline of events thing

It's from Herms.

It says zeno only erased the universe, yet, we consider it that zeno erased the whole timeline from existence, or at least the multiverse

It never says that Zamasu finished to merge, and it talks about them as being still separated. Ergo is much safer to say he didn't finish, especially when we lack stuff saying he did.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Because we just never saw him stopping. You're literally giving a feat that Zamasu didn't achieve yet. Plus TOEI Timeline says that he started to engulf the universe, and then "gets erased along the universe" from Zeno, implying he didn't finish to do so.

You're wrong, after that sequence of him merging with space, zamasu's faces never moved again and was just a still background even when zeno tried to erase him his faces that were in space were also static. So actually there is more evidence that he stopped expanding than that he didn't.
Starting an action was in the past, just because they didn't say "he stopped merging" doesn't mean he didn't.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's from Herms.

It never says that Zamasu finished to merge, and it talks about them as being still separated. Ergo is much safer to say he didn't finish, especially when we lack stuff saying he did.

Again, he begun to affect the 4th dimension, it is much more reasonable to assume that due to that fact, he must have finished merging with the universe. Again, super shenron’s power is relevant, since we know he should be strong enough for zamasu to expand without taking much time at all
Zeno preparing to erase zamasu is not solid grounds to say that it is the reason he stopped expanding. We clearly see that the heads are capable of moving and reacting to being erased, unless you’re gonna make the arbitrary claim that zeno’s erasure negates merging

 

[StrymULTRA]

You're wrong, after that sequence of him merging with space, zamasu's faces never moved again and was just a still background even when zeno tried to erase him his faces that were in space were also static. So actually there is more evidence that he stopped expanding than that he didn't.

That was about the sky. I'm talking about the red faces, where he spreads in the space. He never stopped to move until Zeno killed him. And yeah, you have to prove the positive that he stopped, as literally nothing except your opinion says that he finished.

Again, he begun to affect the 4th dimension, it is much more reasonable to assume that due to that fact, he must have finished merging with the universe.

Indeed, assume, not that he actually did. And we don't make assumptions here.

Again, super shenron’s power is relevant, since we know he should be strong enough for zamasu to expand without taking much time at all

Now that's just climbing on the mirrors.

Zeno preparing to erase zamasu is not solid grounds to say that it is the reason he stopped expanding. We clearly see that the heads are capable of moving and reacting to being erased, unless you’re gonna make the arbitrary claim that zeno’s erasure negates merging

I mean, when you're about to get yeeted from good, that's reasonable to say. We never saw him stopping until Zeno came him, so the most logical deduction is that he never finished. Plus, TOEI's timeline doesn't contradict at all my claim.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

That was about the sky. I'm talking about the red faces, where he spreads in the space. He never stopped to move until Zeno killed him. And yeah, you have to prove the positive that he stopped, as literally nothing except your opinion says that he finished.

Zamasu's faces were moving on earth in the sky before he merged with the earth, then wee see him merge with the earth then with all of space with those red faces, after that, when zamasu attacks and everyone is crying and stuff, not once do wee see zamasu's faces moving in the sky again, and the next time we see his red faces, they were static. The timeline here greatly implies that Zamasu stopped merging after taking over space. Now you prove otherwise.
Zamasu's faces are moving in this video (before merging with earth and space), But are static and not expanding in this one (after merging with earth and space).

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Yeah, you're basically using the shockwaves somehow relating to merging with a really arbitrary way. Also, nothing here says he fully merged with the universe, and used the same scans debunked from OP about Beerus.

Honestly the opposition to this downgrade is becoming more and more pathetic. I'll just wait @AKM sama at this point.

1. Both me and AKM rebunked the OP’s debunk, so there’s literally no problem with me using these scans
2. I already explained like dozens of times why bog was relevant, not to mention you haven’t refuted anything I said other than saying “no, get me something directly saying it” which is not helping your case and is the reason this thread is ultimately failing because you aren’t presenting countervidence, and are mostly arguing from ignorance.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That was about the sky. I'm talking about the red faces, where he spreads in the space. He never stopped to move until Zeno killed him. And yeah, you have to prove the positive that he stopped, as literally nothing except your opinion says that he finished.

Indeed, assume, not that he actually did. And we don't make assumptions here.

Now that's just climbing on the mirrors.

I mean, when you're about to get yeeted from good, that's reasonable to say. We never saw him stopping until Zeno came him, so the most logical deduction is that he never finished. Plus, TOEI's timeline doesn't contradict at all my claim.

Here’s the deal
None of what you just said is actually an argument
My reasonable assumption really is no worse than your own “deduction” which in itself is based off complete assumption
What actually makes sense is that, if there’s no more room in the universe, he’d expand 4 dimensionally, which he literally does
Also zeno hadn’t even erased him by the time we see his faces in space for the 2nd time, he just made a big white ball on earth

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

Because we just never saw him stopping. You're literally giving a feat that Zamasu didn't achieve yet.

Massive AFI.

Plus TOEI Timeline says that he started to engulf the universe, and then "gets erased along the universe" from Zeno, implying he didn't finish to do so.

That doesn’t imply that at all.

 

[AKM sama]

Wow this thread went to places

I did not read much besides some of the comments where I last left off.

We also need to consider that Zamasu's primary goal, according to Gowasu and as confirmed by Toei, was to become the universe itself. Zamasu trying to leak to a different timeline implies that he had already finished his main goal by that time. If my goal is to acquire a piece of land where I live, I won't travel to a different country to buy it there, unless I have already bought the land in my home city.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Why does anybody scale to Infinite Zamasu anyway? Him becoming a universe has nothing to do with the size of his ki growing.

Nowhere is it ever stated or even suggested that his will merging with the universe had any affect on his destructive capacity, and to believe that would be to believe that Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks downscale from Low 2-C for surviving the onslaught of blasts Zamasu regurgitated at them.

Would this not fall under the unviable examples of the Stabilization Feats?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wow this thread went to places

I did not read much besides some of the comments where I last left off.

We also need to consider that Zamasu's primary goal, according to Gowasu and as confirmed by Toei, was to become the universe itself. Zamasu trying to leak to a different timeline implies that he had already finished his main goal by that time. If my goal is to acquire a piece of land where I live, I won't travel to a different country to buy it there, unless I have already bought the land in my home city.

That's a pretty weird comparison tho. He might have just been expanding to more universes at the same time, meaning that's simply range, but not AP. Ik that 4D stuff is involved here, but is it really enough to prove so? I mean, nothing from TOEI itself says that he's done, ergo it can easily be interpreted as simply 4D range + unquantifiable 4D AP.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Why does anybody scale to Infinite Zamasu anyway? Him becoming a universe has nothing to do with the size of his ki growing.

Nowhere is it ever stated or even suggested that his will merging with the universe had any affect on his destructive capacity, and to believe that would be to believe that Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks downscale from Low 2-C for surviving the onslaught of blasts Zamasu regurgitated at them.

Would this not fall under the unviable examples of the Stabilization Feats?

Shenron scales to it for obv reasons, and you’re ignoring the fact that they directly defended from an attack from zamasu, as well as the fact that his durability should be low 2-C for size alone. Also obviously, the fact that he affected something on a 4d scale means he must be 4D

 

[ZillertheBucko]

That's a pretty weird comparison tho. He might have just been expanding to more universes at the same time, meaning that's simply range, but not AP. Ik that 4D stuff is involved here, but is it really enough to prove so? I mean, nothing from TOEI itself says that he's done, ergo it can easily be interpreted as simply 4D range + unquantifiable 4D AP.

his range directly scales to his AP, because his range is actually his presence and size

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with AKM Sama and said most of the things I was going to say, but I might have more after I finish I go through my RL work shift.

 

[Orange]

That's a pretty weird comparison tho. He might have just been expanding to more universes at the same time, meaning that's simply range, but not AP. Ik that 4D stuff is involved here, but is it really enough to prove so? I mean, nothing from TOEI itself says that he's done, ergo it can easily be interpreted as simply 4D range + unquantifiable 4D AP.

He is expanding via fusing with the space time of universes, aka becoming said universes.
Fusing with one universe's space time = becoming said universes space time = becoming a living 4D structure.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I feel as though we may need to add a new tier though still
since we skip straight from infinite 3d to infinite 4d, and zamasu rn could be either infinite 3d, fininite 4d, or infinite 4d depending on how this goes

 

[StrymULTRA]

But going from what AKM said, wouldn't at very least a "will likely/possibly become 2-C" return then, giving he'd merge with present U7 in a similar fashion as he did with future then.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I feel as though we may need to add a new tier though still
since we skip straight from infinite 3d to infinite 4d, and zamasu rn could be either infinite 3d, fininite 4d, or infinite 4d depending on how this goes

Make a separate CRT for it, this ain't the place.