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Again, this should also be considered too^. No one seems to have factored this in.
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The End of a Zamasu-flavored Era (Low 2-C CRT)
- Thread starter Nullflowerblush
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball fusion zamasu
- Status
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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Yes he would.
as I’m sure you’re aware of, low 2-C requires affecting the entirety of a universal sized spacetime continuum.
not a single feat in DB accomplishes this afaik.
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not entirely sure what you mean but
zamasu traveling between the dimensions would still be low 2-C regardless, right?
zamasu traveling between the dimensions would still be low 2-C regardless, right?
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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Dimensional travel is not an AP feat
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Poor wording, but what I mean is the fact that he can exist in both at the same time like that
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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That’s large size or higher dimensional existence or some form of nigh omnipresence.
none of it has to be AP related.
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Except for the fact that the wiki gives AP through sheer size all the time
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This actually makes me wonder how Beerus and Champa's feat would be 2-C. If effecting the entire space-time continuum is needed.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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Except Zamasu doesn’t have the sheer size to warrant tier 2.
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I suppose that’s the debate rn huh
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Correct me if i'm wrong, but is the difference between 3-a and low 2-c not uncountably infinite? even if he was like .00000000000000001 percent merged with the universe's space time or something ridiculously low like that (which I don't believe to be the case as im pretty sure BOG goku and beerus were going to destroy the universe in moments as listed on their page, and zamasu's speed should scale far above that+he was expanding for a few minutes? which should be more than enough) it wouldn't matter because even then it would still get them to low 2-c.
Uhhhh other than zamasu becoming the order of the universe itself, distorting reality so its literally in his image? So I think gowasu's statements would be heavily backed up visually, so much implies that zamasu was actually doing this that I would actually love to see counter-evidence as opposed to skepticism.
Yeah again, in bog goku and beerus's speed was enough to affect the universe in seconds, i think zamasu who should scale much faster than bog goku and in a larger time frame (1-2 minutes i believe), so I'm leaning towards it actually being the case, unless theres counter evidence im missing.
If we operate under the axiom that he was becoming the universe, there are two possible interpretations of it we can take it as. Physical matter, or space time. But we see zamasu expanding not only into future uni 7, but uni 7 from another timeline, and then not just that, but 17 years into the past of that timeline, getting into the present where the rest of the z fighters live. I would think distorting a universe, and its order to the point it becomes in your image on a spatiotemporal scale would qualify for "significantly affecting"
And if you are gonna say it's some sort of dimensional travel I would also ask for something implying that as well. Because in this context I believe it isn't implied nor would it make sense as 1. zamasu has never shown an ability that has allowed him to travel to another timeline on his own, (not only that but 17 years into the past of that timeline) and 2. that would defeat the entire purpose of why zamasu wanted the time rings and killed gowasu for it. Also we know that again all zamasu is doing to our knowledge is distorting/merging with the universe and its order and justice, so all things point to it being achieved through his expansion, not some sort of technique he kept hidden until the very last second of the arc.
Thats the most direct statement we could possibly receive about the situation, just saying say what from the future is affecting the past doesn't mean it's not zamasu. Especially since we know and beerus knows that they went to the future to fight off zamasu. Moreover I wan't to know what makes you think beerus has no idea whats happening.
Also you can argue beerus can possibly know its the future happening in the past since he has clairvoyance and cosmic awareness (listed on his page)? But that gets headcanony and weird so i wont really delve into that hole.
So yeah for the reasons presented above, I completely disagree with this crt.
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Hmmm on second thought I just remembered arguing in a thread of my own that zamasu hadn’t fully became the universe by the time he was erased
I’d go for high 3-A infinite zamasu now, although
I’m still feeling low low 2-C battle of gods is a thing….But I’m go do something else for a bit since I’m not particularly knowledgeable on dragon ball
I’d go for high 3-A infinite zamasu now, although
I’m still feeling low low 2-C battle of gods is a thing….But I’m go do something else for a bit since I’m not particularly knowledgeable on dragon ball
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Ok nevermind then guess I’ll read that
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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That's not low 2-C by the wiki's standards unfortunately, even if there is a mathematical truth to it.
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Yes, but that actually should make it easier for a character to reach Tier 2 in DB as the proof of fusing with all aspects of time and space in said time-space isn't at all necessary.
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could you link me to the requirements of significantly affecting? i wanna know for sure what qualifies for that
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Eh, I think its implied time was included when this distortion process was activated when we see zamasu distorting the past, and then beerus saying the events of the future were affecting the past, but thats just my guess.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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The problem lies in the definition of "spacetime continuum" in the standards, not significantly affecting.
Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:
Spacetime continuum's are treated as the whole thing, including past, present and future, not just a tiny portion of the future, or tiny portion of the past or just the present.
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I believe if im not mistaken that each individual universe in dragon ball is accepted as low 2-c, so i believe it qualifies for those standards.. And zamasu was, as we could see, becoming the universe's space time, and given the fact that he eventually reached and merged with not only another timeline but 17 years into the past of that, that its heavily implied it wasn't a tiny portion, or moment of time. And that the fact that beerus said the future was affecting the past directly supporting that which was already implied.
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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If you can't prove he merged with the entirety of the past, present and future, then no he doesn't qualify for low 2-C. One can argue he followed the time machine through the portal which would allow him to flow into the main timeline without the need for an "overflow" so to speak. It's my opinion that a valid interpretation of the feat is that he partially merged with 2 timelines which doesn't qualify for anything via the current standards. Zamasu could just as easily be given the tier "3-A, possibly higher" or "3-A eventually low 2-C" and it would be more accurate.
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This argument is still stale. Him fusing with all aspects of the past, present, and future is extremely unnecessary. All one would have to do is show that him interfering with other timelines proves that he's fusing with time and space itself. It going on a universal level would therefore qualify for Low 2C
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Thats not how this works. Fusing with the time and space of other parallel worlds would still just mean Zamasu is only fusing with specific points of time. Not all of time from beginning to end. This would just be range.
To be Low 2-C, he would need to be fusing with ALL of the past, ALL of the present, and ALL of the future in the timeline. Not one part of time. Not multiple parts, but all parts.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,237
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Bitching about detail like he should show to be merged with all past, present and future is like bitching about an immeasurable speed character should show that they can actually moving and striking at all moments across timeline despite never shown that way not some fancy word and context like moving beyond dimensional axis of time
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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Stale or not, hate the standards not the user.
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I'm not hating on you, I apologize if it came out like that. My point is that if you could prove that he's also fusing with time itself, it would qualify for Low 2C
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not really the claim that future chaos was affecting the present is a lot. better really since when it comes to future trunks it is not really future but the timeline of trunks. This would mean that he covered his own timeline instead of magically thinking that he used some port to move there
Hasty12345
Username Only- 4,359
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Should* I agree, but unfortunately, it doesn't. DB is in a weird place where it barely qualifies for any tier 2 stuff. I genuinely think U7 has more evidence for 2-C than the multiverse does. But that's just my opinion.
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Honestly him appearing in other timelines is not enough. That's, again, Tier 3 stuff with 4D range of Omnipresence. You can perfectly be 3D in existence while doing that, really.
Plus, @AKM sama, I need an explanation. I've rewatched just now Episode 67 and only moments of Zamasu being in outer space are when he started spreading to the universe and when Zeno erased him. He stopped moving in the latter but that's because of him being literally killed there.
I'd definitely agree with "3-A, likely higher" or "3-A, would have eventually become Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" basing on him spreading on Present timeline too.
Plus, @AKM sama, I need an explanation. I've rewatched just now Episode 67 and only moments of Zamasu being in outer space are when he started spreading to the universe and when Zeno erased him. He stopped moving in the latter but that's because of him being literally killed there.
I'd definitely agree with "3-A, likely higher" or "3-A, would have eventually become Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" basing on him spreading on Present timeline too.
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I don't need to show Zamasu fusing with every single infinitesimal moment of the universe 7 timeline for him to qualify that is crazy. He was fusing with the entire universe, that is important, the fact that we know he was affecting time while doing it proves that his merging was having an effect on time which means him fusing with the universe means he's fusing with the space time of universe 7. The argument that zamasu only fused with 1 moment in time doesn't work.
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He didn't even finish to fuse in the first place. Show me where he stopped, and I mean a timestamp of the episode. Because Zamasu didn't stop moving except when Zeno erased him.
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Expanding to other stuff isn't enough. You don't get a tier from Omnipresence
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the point is that he's currently affecting other time-spaces with his presence. I think Low 2C should work, but whatever
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A thing every Omnipresent on multiverse do. I erase something across all the timeline but I'm not Low 2-C.
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But are you fusing with said timelines?
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zamasu isn't a normal omnipresent character, he is actually the universe itself, not just inside of the universe but everywhere
and he was having an affect on the past. But tbh, I don't even know if this wiki considers the universe infinite sized since
I saw someone say that the void space of the universe isn't infinite, but just expanding constantly?
but anyways beerus said zamasu was having an affect on the past, which implies that it wasn't just a single point of the past or something
that being said though it's pretty clear that he hadn't finished becoming the entire universe anyways, so idk if his size in the future alone counts for anything
and he was having an affect on the past. But tbh, I don't even know if this wiki considers the universe infinite sized since
I saw someone say that the void space of the universe isn't infinite, but just expanding constantly?
but anyways beerus said zamasu was having an affect on the past, which implies that it wasn't just a single point of the past or something
that being said though it's pretty clear that he hadn't finished becoming the entire universe anyways, so idk if his size in the future alone counts for anything
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