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The only resistance he has that are above 4D in this key are the ones that are related to the Prisoner Metaphysic.Keeweed said:
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The Dovahkiin vs Ainz Ooal Gown
- Thread starter Black_Hoopa
- Start date
- 489
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Yeah, but it has nothing to do with anything that Ainz has.
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Honestly, I always interpreted the prisoners to work the same way as a time break.
There are multiple, contradictory truths at once. You could see it as the timeline breaking and multiple alternate timeline all happening, and at the end of the time break the time lines re-fuse and some truth is carried over by all of them.
In the prisoner's case, it's not that they can be a vampire and a werewolf at once, it's that both a reality where they are a vampire and one where they are a werewolf are true. There is a version of the Dovahkiin that did every side quest and one that simply ran at alduin naked and beat him that way (yes, there is a whole no items or magic playthrough of the game). It's not that the dragonborn is wearing archmge robes, daedric armor and some tattered clothing at once, but that there are alternate version that do.
And then, once whatever they have to do regardless of variations (Dovah killing Alduin, for exemple) is done, time just reconciles. And like in a time break, some things carry over regardless. Every main (non-miscallenious) quest is canonical ly completed, but not always by the playable character. So if you did everything, that is canon for following games, but if you literally just killed alduin and u installed it, then some random ass people did the remaining quest.
There are multiple, contradictory truths at once. You could see it as the timeline breaking and multiple alternate timeline all happening, and at the end of the time break the time lines re-fuse and some truth is carried over by all of them.
In the prisoner's case, it's not that they can be a vampire and a werewolf at once, it's that both a reality where they are a vampire and one where they are a werewolf are true. There is a version of the Dovahkiin that did every side quest and one that simply ran at alduin naked and beat him that way (yes, there is a whole no items or magic playthrough of the game). It's not that the dragonborn is wearing archmge robes, daedric armor and some tattered clothing at once, but that there are alternate version that do.
And then, once whatever they have to do regardless of variations (Dovah killing Alduin, for exemple) is done, time just reconciles. And like in a time break, some things carry over regardless. Every main (non-miscallenious) quest is canonical ly completed, but not always by the playable character. So if you did everything, that is canon for following games, but if you literally just killed alduin and u installed it, then some random ass people did the remaining quest.
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I was just think about this and I don't think there being different realities that comes together is how Prisoner Metaphyiscs works. In Coda the Nerevarine shows up and he's described as unrecognizable because he's "quantum shifting" to much. If it was just a bunch of alternate timelines that join together after the adventure is done then it wouldn't make sense for the Nerevarine to be constantly shifting he would just be one race at that time. Also I believe the Vestige won a fight that he had a 99% of lossing because he was a prisoner and the person he fought also had acausality so if he won in one timeline but not the other Nocturnal would have just won anyways.
Though I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to Elder Scrolls prisoners and I feel what a prisoner actually is and how they work has slowing changed on this site, so I feel like after the forum move I should make a thread about Prisoners so everyone can get their story straight.
Though I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to Elder Scrolls prisoners and I feel what a prisoner actually is and how they work has slowing changed on this site, so I feel like after the forum move I should make a thread about Prisoners so everyone can get their story straight.
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Alternate timelines don't really happen at all, not even during a Dragonbreak. Just multiple possible things happen at once, even if contradictory. Someone can live and die in the same world because muh dragon break explains away all the plot holes.
My point was, a prisoner can't have contradictory powers that they couldn't have obtained at once. They can't be a vampire and a werewolf, but they can choose to be one or the other to their benefit to overcome challenges. They can chose any equipment, ability or mentality they could have, but they can't have all of them at once.
I would argue that the prince's don't transcend causuality in a manner that the prisoners do. By all means, the very act of attacking shouldn't work on something not bound by causuality, but that obviously doesn't happen. Daedric prince's should also be able to control their realms as they want, and yet they aren't the best at keeping people in there (Shae doesn't even realize you leave during the DLC unless you go to his statue and summon him).
Their powers in effect tend to be very underwhelming compared to role, the same way as what a mid game Dovahkiin that devoured many souls is supposed to take a few dozen enemy soldiers during a civil war as a serious opponent. Or the way as a frost troll is put to scare the hell out of a dovah that just ripped a dragon a new one. It's just the games being high fantasy in lore and low fantasy in execution more often than not.
My point was, a prisoner can't have contradictory powers that they couldn't have obtained at once. They can't be a vampire and a werewolf, but they can choose to be one or the other to their benefit to overcome challenges. They can chose any equipment, ability or mentality they could have, but they can't have all of them at once.
I would argue that the prince's don't transcend causuality in a manner that the prisoners do. By all means, the very act of attacking shouldn't work on something not bound by causuality, but that obviously doesn't happen. Daedric prince's should also be able to control their realms as they want, and yet they aren't the best at keeping people in there (Shae doesn't even realize you leave during the DLC unless you go to his statue and summon him).
Their powers in effect tend to be very underwhelming compared to role, the same way as what a mid game Dovahkiin that devoured many souls is supposed to take a few dozen enemy soldiers during a civil war as a serious opponent. Or the way as a frost troll is put to scare the hell out of a dovah that just ripped a dragon a new one. It's just the games being high fantasy in lore and low fantasy in execution more often than not.
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" My point was, a prisoner can't have contradictory powers that they couldn't have obtained at once. They can't be a vampire and a werewolf, but they can choose to be one or the other to their benefit to overcome challenges. They can chose any equipment, ability or mentality they could have, but they can't have all of them at once."
I remember Matt saying the exact opposite in a previous thread, which is why I think I should make a thread about Prisoner metaphysic because nearly everyone has a different view of how it works at this point.
That also doesn't explain the quantum shifting part (though I hate that part of the story since it just blindly slaps quantum onto something in order to sound cool). Though I need to reread Vivic lessons because I remember something on there that also points to prisoners doing contradictory stuff but I don't remember the exact wording at this moment.
I'll just make a thread after the forum move because prisoners are becoming very muddled over time, because we've never had an thread on the topic by itself.
I remember Matt saying the exact opposite in a previous thread, which is why I think I should make a thread about Prisoner metaphysic because nearly everyone has a different view of how it works at this point.
That also doesn't explain the quantum shifting part (though I hate that part of the story since it just blindly slaps quantum onto something in order to sound cool). Though I need to reread Vivic lessons because I remember something on there that also points to prisoners doing contradictory stuff but I don't remember the exact wording at this moment.
I'll just make a thread after the forum move because prisoners are becoming very muddled over time, because we've never had an thread on the topic by itself.
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