The defect of the world should not exist (big skill addition BC part 1)

[Sonoftanavast9]

the acausality is for the pure power of antimagic that Asta only got after his demonic contract, the version of Asta that was affected used a limited form of antimagic, Lucius' statements came after the demonic contract before that he was not even aware of the existence of Asta, and in the verse there are other powers/magic that can go against natural laws, such as Morris, who is not affected by Rouge

Morris profile already has resistance to law manipulation, causality manipulation, fate manipulation and probability as well.

Bringing up the fact that Lucius was unaware of Asta prior to that devils bargain just bolsters my point because Lucius has been looking into the future before the devils bargain(hell even before the series proper started) and couldn't see the world influenced by Asta, that means that his statements relating to Asta being a flaw in the world & anything to do with Asta being immune to his precog are relevant to all forms of Asta, even those prior to the devils bargain, which we see that Rouge can affect numerous times.

Morris has resistances but not acausality. His resistance at the time was the result of his modification magic being able to manipulate concepts not him being acausal in any way so he really has no relevance to this discussion but the recent chapter even furthers my point because when read in full, Morris statement clearly implies that he had not surpass natural law until "God Chose him"(AKA Lucius made him a paladin) meaning everything he has done prior to that was what he considered having not surpassed natural law though "Surpassing natural law" is a vague and undefined thing seeing as how Morris brags about his power to "destroy everything and create life" as being what is relevant to him having surpassed natural laws and Mereleona surpassing natural laws in the chapter is just relevant to her ability to resurrect the souls of her dead companions as well as full turn her body into mana neither of which are relevant for the sites definition of acausality

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bringing up the fact that Lucious was unaware of Asta prior to that devils bargain just bolsters my point because if Lucius has been looking into the future before the devils bargain(hell even before the series proper started) and couldn't see Asta then that means that his statements relating to Asta being a flaw in the world are relevant to all forms of Asta, even those prior to the devils bargain, which we see that Rouge can affect numerous times.

Morris has resistances but not acausality. His resistance at the time was the result of his modification magic being able to manipulate concepts not him being acausal in any way so he really has no relevance to this discussion but the recent chapter even furthers my point because when read in full, Morris statement clearly implies that he had not surpass natural law until "God Chose him"(AKA Lucius made him a paladin) meaning everything he has done prior to that was what he considered having not surpassed natural law though "Surpassing natural law" is a vague and undefined thing seeing as how Morris brags about his power to "destroy everything and create life" as being what is relevant to him having surpassed natural laws and Mereleona surpassing natural laws in the chapter is just relevant to her ability to resurrect the souls of her dead companions as well as full turn her body into mana neither of which are relevant for the sites definition of acausality

Morris interferes with natural laws since the beginning of the work when he merged the grimoire mars and fana , and my point about Lucius' statement is not the resistance to Asta's precognition but rather where his statement stands chronologically,I also mentioned that it was only the magic/powers/attributes that would have acasuality, I never referred to the characters, and Morris's modification magic would still need to resist Rouge to affect it.

Edit :But if you still have problems with acasuality, I don't mind waiting for the next chapter since Rouge and antimagic are coexisting again

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Morris interferes with natural laws since the beginning of the work when he merged the grimoire mars and fana

He himself states that no matter how much he researched he could never overcome natural laws, tampering/altering or affecting natural laws is also what Vanessa's ability does but clearly she herself isn't acausal since she regularly uses her powers on herself and others.

and my point about Lucius' statement is not the resistance to Asta's precognition but rather where his statement stands chronologically,

And my point is that chronologically, Lucius has been looking into the future since before Asta made the bargain yet was unable to see Asta nor the true the results of the future influenced by Asta meaning that all of Lucius' statements apply to all versions of Asta prior to the devils bargain even the ones clearly affected by rouge so the statements in of themselves can't be used to validate Acausality

I also mentioned that it was only the magic/powers/attributes that would have acasuality, I never referred to the characters, and Morris's modification magic would still need to resist Rouge to affect it.

Morris is affecting the intangible concept of Rouges magic for which said magic had no prior feats of itself being resistant to conceptual manipulation so Morris affecting it with conceptual manipulation isn't a feat of acausality. My point is that the express reason he could affect the magic was because he was manipulation concepts rather than him surpassing natural laws to some nebulous and unexplored degree so he has a resistance rather than Acausality (which is blanket immunity)
Edit:

Edit :But if you still have problems with acasuality, I don't mind waiting for the next chapter since Rouge and antimagic are coexisting again

Good point, we might get more clear information in the upcoming chapters that could swing it either way

 

[Arnoldstone18]

What is your opinion on this topic now, after chapter 371?

It neither confirms or denies anything we’ve said in this discussion.

See below.

If you are giving Asta type 5 NPE for lacking mana which is fundamental for a human’s soul and hence existence.

Then I somewhat agree with “limited” rating as long as justification are clear.

Although is this really necessary. Ask staff for more input.

Assuming it qualifies for type 5, "Limited" would be unnecessary, type 5 is there for this specific reason.

Still disagree with Acausality.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

It neither confirms or denies anything we’ve said in this discussion.

How come you don't confirm anything? A being of pure mana is called an "ideal soul form", together with the other scans already in the OP leaves my point of view that soul and mana are a 1 for 1 existence has more base and makes more sense than "mana is an electron of the soul"

Lucius is literally a soul magic user who affects the quality of a person’s mana by interacting with their souls. He is also literally purifying negative mana with his soul magic.

Nothing in this Scan shows that affecting the soul affects mana, nor does anything in the verse mention mana as just an aspect of the soul. in fact, the very existence of soul magic refutes the idea that mana is a part of the soul, every magical power/attribute in the verse has mana as its fundamental aspect, which forms each magical attribute and all magic is a manipulation of mana , mages need to manipulate the mana of their attribute to affect the objects of their magic this is well explained with skills like mana zone and the mana method, Lucius being able to manipulate all aspects of the soul means that mana must be present in all aspects

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

The rest of what you said doesn’t seem important enough to address, considering I’ve tackled your main claim. Something being more fundamental than the other thing isn’t an argument against anything. even your NPI argument is flawed considering both souls and mana can be seen or not seen on a case by case basis e.g. purely mana based objects are visible to Asta even though he can’t feel it.

That's a lie, Asta can't see pure mana things just as not every wizard in the verse can't either, Yuno, who is "loved by mana", had to lose all his senses to be able to see the flow of mana and the last chapter reinforces this too with Moris not being able to touch Mereoleona who became pure mana , the main point must be the purity of mana, Asta can interact with beings that are not very "close to mana" despite being made of mana

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[Arnoldstone18]

How come you don't confirm anything? A being of pure mana is called an "ideal soul form", together with the other scans already in the OP leaves my point of view that soul and mana are a 1 for 1 existence has more base and makes more sense than "mana is an electron of the soul"

I said the scan neither confirms or denies anything. And no. It says Mereoleona was taught the ideal soul form NOT called an ideal soul form. Nobody disagreed that the mana has anything to do the soul. What we are arguing is whether or not the soul comes from mana.

I don’t agree that the mana is the soul.

Get a staff here.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Nobody disagreed that the mana has anything to do the soul. What we are arguing is whether or not the soul comes from mana.

I know that, my problem is with your interpretation of the relationship between mana and soul, for you mana is just one aspect of the soul along with mind, life and PM, but in this case interfering with mana would not affect the other aspects which would not It's true, as has already been shown with negative mana, other than that, your interpretation requires enormous mental reasoning that mana is just an "electron of the soul" without any mention in the work about it and also ignores a direct description from Lumiere where he says that zagred is a "negative mana soul"

I don’t agree that the mana is the soul.

OK

Get a staff here.

I'll send it to someone's wall

 

[Epsilon_R]

Mana > Soul > the rest, now it's time to move on

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

.

To confirm, in the question of aspect type 5 you agree with the NEP vital energy ?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

That's a lie, Asta can't see pure mana things just as not every wizard in the verse can't either, Yuno, who is "loved by mana", had to lose all his senses to be able to see the flow of mana and the last chapter reinforces this too with Moris not being able to touch Mereoleona who became pure mana , the main point must be the purity of mana, Asta can interact with beings that are not very "close to mana" despite being made of mana

Asta can see Mereoleona and the Great Spirits which are made of mana. Even though that fact alone refutes your claim, you made a couple of mistakes which I feel obligated to address:

• Yuno does not need to lose all his senses, he already has mana flow sensing, he just didn’t know how to rely on it until he was forced to.
• Morris doesn’t have the level of NPI required to touch Mereoleona.
• Only incomplete mereoleona is the only being “close to mana”. Asta has interacted with beings made of mana.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

To confirm, in the question of aspect type 5 you agree with the NEP vital energy ?

I don’t know.. ask high ranking staff members.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

• Yuno does not need to lose all his senses, he already has mana flow sensing, he just didn’t know how to rely on it until he was forced to.

He can feel mana, just like all the wizards in the verse, but seeing is something pure mana that he only managed to do after losing all his senses.

• Morris doesn’t have the level of NPI required to touch Mereoleona.

Yes, that is the NPI with mana

• Only incomplete mereoleona is the only being “close to mana”. Asta has interacted with beings made of mana.

No, Asta has never been able to interact with anyone made of pure mana, the most that can be argued is his interaction with the salamander,but she was not in her "true" form which should be invisible as was shown when the wind spirit Bell appeared,and mana is also described by Tabata as an invisible fundamental aspect

 

[Epsilon_R]

The avatar of spirits are physical, but only their true forms are purely Mana. That's just like the grimoires essentially.

But since their avatar is still held together by Mana, Asta can slash them apart

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Bump