• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

BLACK CLOVER 2023 MOVIE CRT (PART 2); THE WIZARD KING SAGA ***CRT BACK ON!!***

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not at all, I have no interest in repeating myself. And that’s what we are doing rn, repeating our points over and over. So we can leave it up to staff votes, and I’ll clarify stuff if someone brings forth something new.

I remain of the stance that a vein of mana contains mana just like a glass of water contains water.

Hopefully this clarifies some things. Apologies for the lengthy post, but hope it communicates my point. I think you might be misinformed about some things regarding mana 「魔マナ mana」 and magical power「魔力 maryoku」 . They're related but not the same. Hopefully this clears things up, because I think the idea that the veins were amping the sword is unsubstantiated at the moment.

Inserting the sword into the mana vein doesn't mean it's using mana in the vein to cause destruction, because that would require external mana manipulation which is impossible for the sword, in fact I don't think that was ever implied. It doesn’t even line up with what we know about mana at all. I think people are conflating magical power & mana, which are related but different. Mana 「魔マナ mana」 is a supernatural energy that flows, and exist in the world and inside people. Not to mention, mana is invisible, you can't see it, you can only feel/sense it. Injecting the sword using the earth or "mana" vein propagates the magical power within the sword to cause destruction, not cause a chain reaction, or absorb the mana of the vein (which is canoncally impossible)

Mana exist everywhere in the world while magical power does not. Magical power「魔力 maryoku」 is what mana「魔マナ mana」 turns into when it gets refined. This can only be done by things that can use it. In order to influence any sort of phenomenon, mana must be converted into magical power since it cannot influence things by itself. You need to generate an earth quake to destroy the continent? You need magical power to do that, not mana. Mana doesn't "detonate" or cause "chain reactions" it's supernatural energy that has it's own flow, and varying densities. If you want to affect something, it can't do it as "mana, it needs to be converted into magical power, and only things that can internally generate magical power can do that, the sword does not generate magical power, nor does it convert mana into magical power. Converting ambient mana into magical power is only done through mana zone or mana method (which requires high magical power) or some type of rune action, which requires you to have have magical power in the first place. External mana control and absorption are specific skills that the sword does not possess. Mana zone is a technique that allows a mage to control ambient mana within a given territory. With it, you can absorb said ambient mana, and generate more magical power. The amount that they can control depends on how strength/amount of magical power they have since you still need to expend magical power to utilize external mana. It's a separate skill that needs to be acquired, which the sword doesn't have, nor was it ever implied to. The imperial sword cannot convert mana into magical power, it can only store magical power and release it.

For example Henry's curse only siphons magical power, not raw mana because magical power provides him with the energy needed to survive. So the mana in the environment? Henry doesn't siphon it, only the magical power.

FYI viz sometimes translates 「魔力 maryoku」 as "mana" instead of magical power which is incorrect. Hence why I defer to the raws, they've gotten a bit better about it though. Anyway here in the viz scan elf Gauche says Henry is absorbing mana (which is the incorrect translation), and here are the Japanese raws for comparison which states Henry is absorbing magical power aka 「魔力 maryoku」 not 「魔マナ mana」

Demon dweller can absorb magical power & anti-magic power and discharges it, it doesn't absorb or discharge free power. Magical power is always, always generated by something. That power can then be stored. There was no magical power in the veins until Conrad injected it with the imperial sword, hence why it started glowing because "dormant" mana does not exist. Mana is just a type of supernatural energy that exist everywhere, and can only influence the world around it IF and ONLY IF it is turned into magical power.

Also i'm making the statement below, since I feel some other's will try to use similar content as a rebuttal:


Here is the mana zone explanation in the viz translation it says you take control of the ambient mana to power yourself, and can discharge more mana than you actually have

But looking at the Japanese raws, the scan actually says the mage takes control of the ambient mana「魔マナ mana」 and use it to discharge more magical power「魔力 maryoku」 than they actually have , so regardless mana must always be converted into magical power if you want to use it. Even if you assume the veins were packed with dense mana, it would be useless to the sword since it only absorbs magical power, not mana, and magical power is what's needed to causes the destruction, not raw mana. The only way the sword could use the mana of the veins (if there were any) is if Conrad was actively channeling the mana of the veins into himself, and converting it into magical power since only those that can generate their own magical power, have the power to convert mana into magical power which is a complex skill that only a few people know how to use, but that would still mean Conrad & Asta would scale to it since he would be the one using said power. Nevertheless, there isn't any evidence Conrad was channeling the mana of the veins into himself.

Another rebuttal someone might try to bring up is mana skin:
In the viz translation it says that mages wear a protective layer of mana because they're releasing their magical power at a constant rate.

Well taking a look at the Japanese raws, it actually says they're wearing a protective later of magical power「魔力 maryoku」by releasing their magic power at a constant rate. So again, mana cannot do anything on its own unless it's converted into magical power, which the sword cannot do (since it absorbs magical power, it doesn't create it)

If the sword could harvest free mana, then there would be no need to absorb the magical power of the citizens since mana literally floats in the air. So Asta & Conrad would still 100% scale whether the destruction was caused by just the sword or if Conrad channeling the mana of the veins into himself (which I doubt) and to reiterate the veins did not light up until magical power was propagating through it.
 
Last edited:
978941678591311872.webp
 
I ain’t reading allat rn
for a TLDR; proving the sword was using the mana in the mana vein would require you to prove one of two things 1) that magical power exist in the mana vein (instead of raw mana) or 2) that that sword is creating magical power. Because mana cannot influence the world unless its converted into magical power, since raw mana is useless unless you covert it into magical power. Absorbing mana is a very specific skill that only a few sentient beings possess since magical power is generated internally. The sword only stores magical power, it doesn't create it.
 
Last edited:
Hopefully this clarified some things. Apologies for the lengthy post, but hopefully it communicates my point. I think you might be misinformed about some things regarding mana 「魔マナ mana」 and magical power「魔力 maryokuthey're related but not the same. So hopefully this clears things up. Because I think the idea that the veins were amping the sword is unsubstantiated at the moment.

Inserting the sword into the mana vein doesn't mean it's using mana in the vein to cause destruction because that would require external mana manipulation which is impossible for the sword, in fact I don't think that was ever implied. It doesn’t even line up with what we know about mana at all. I think people are conflating magical power & mana, which are related but different. Mana 「魔マナ mana」is a supernatural flow of energy that exist in the world and inside people. Not to mention, mana is invisible, you can't see it, you can only feel/sense it. Injecting the sword using the earth or "mana" propagates the magical power within the sword to cause destruction, not cause a chain reaction, or absorb the mana of the vein (which is canoncally impossible)

Mana exist everywhere in the world while magical power does not. Magical power「魔力 maryoku」 is what mana「魔マナ mana」 turns into when it gets refined. This can only be done by things that can use it. In order to influence any sort of phenomenon, the mana must be converted into magical power since it cannot influence things by itself. You need to generate an earth quake to destroy the continent? You need magical power to do that, not mana. Mana doesn't "detonate" or cause "chain reactions" it's a flow of supernatural energy that has varying densities. If you want to affect something, it can't do it as "mana, it needs to be converted into magical power, and only things that can internally generate magical power can do that, the sword does not generate magical power, nor does it convert mana into magical power. Converting ambient mana into magical power is only done through mana zone or mana method (which requires high magical power) or some type of rune action, which requires you to have high magical power in the first place, and that is a very specific skill that the sword does not possess. Mana zone is a technique that allows a mage to control ambient mana within a given territory. With it, you can absorb said ambient mana, and generate more magical power. The amount that they can control depends on how strong their magical power is since you still need to expend power to utilize it.
It's a separate skill that needs to be acquired, which the sword doesn't have nor was it ever implied to. The imperial sword cannot convert mana into magical power, it can only store magical power and release it.

For example Henry's curse only siphons magical power, not raw mana because magical power provides him with the energy needed to survive. So the mana in the environment? Henry doesn't siphon it, only the magical power.

FYI viz sometimes translates 「魔力 maryoku」 as "mana" instead of magical power which is incorrect. Hence why I defer to the raws, they've gotten a bit better about it though. Anyway here in the viz scan elf Gauche says Henry is absorbing mana (which is the incorrect translation), and here are the Japanese raws for comparison which states Henry is absorbing magical power aka 「魔力 maryoku」 not 「魔マナ mana」

Demon dweller can absorb magical power & anti-magic power and discharges it, it doesn't absorb or discharge free power. Magical power is always, always generated by something. That power can then be stored. There was no magical power in the veins until Conrad injected it with the imperial sword, hence why it started glowing because "dormant" mana does not exist. Mana is just a type of supernatural energy that exist everywhere, and can only influence the world around it IF it is turned into magical power.

Also i'm making this statement since I feel some other's will try to use it as a rebuttal:

Here is the mana zone explanation in the viz translation it says you take control of the ambient mana to power yourself, and can discharge more mana than you actually have

But looking at the Japanese raws, the scan actually says the mage takes control of the ambient mana「魔マナ mana」 and use it to discharge more magical power「魔力 maryoku」 than they actually have, so regardless mana must always be converted into magical power if you want to use it. Even if you assume the veins were packed with dense mana, it would be useless to the sword since it only absorbs magical power, not mana, and magical power is what's needed to causes the destruction, not raw mana. The only way the sword could use the mana of the veins (if there were any) is if Conrad was actively channeling the mana of the veins into himself, and converting it into magical power since only those that can generate their own magical power, have the power to convert mana into magical power which is a complex skill but that would still mean Conrad & Asta would scale to it since he would be the one using said power. Nevertheless, there isn't any evidence Conrad was channeling the mana of the veins into himself.

Another rebuttal someone might try to bring up is mana skin:
In the viz translation it says that mages wear a protective layer of mana because they're releasing their magical power at a constant rate.

Well taking a look at the Japanese raws, it actually says they're wearing a protective later of magical power「魔力 maryoku」by releasing their magic power at a constant rate. So again, mana cannot do anything on its own unless it's converted into magical power, which the sword cannot do (since it absorbs magical power, it doesn't create it)

If the sword could harvest free mana, then there would be no need to absorb the magical power of the citizens since mana literally floats in the air. So Asta & Conrad would still 100% scale whether the destruction was caused by just the sword or if Conrad channeling the mana of the veins into himself (which I doubt) and to reiterate the veins did not light up until magical power was propagating through it.

Damn… I indeed read all that shit.

Thank you.
 
So Arnold's meteor calc seems to have been accepted at 594.1 petatons. I'll update my scaling as a result.

Naalith/Incomplete Spade Arc DU Asta/Final Arc Black Asta/Base Ichika = 594.1 petatons
Half-Manifested Lucifero = 1.188 exatons
Complete Megicula/Full Power Half-Manifested Lucifero = 1.782 exatons
Complete Lucifero = 3.564 exatons
Zetten Base Ichika/Dark-Cloaked Black Musha Ichika = 11.83 exatons
Zetten Dark-Cloaked Black Musha Ichika = 236.56 exatons
 
So Arnold's meteor calc seems to have been accepted at 594.1 petatons. I'll update my scaling as a result.

Naalith/Incomplete Spade Arc DU Asta/Final Arc Black Asta/Base Ichika = 594.1 petatons
Half-Manifested Lucifero = 1.188 exatons
Complete Megicula/Full Power Half-Manifested Lucifero = 1.782 exatons
Complete Lucifero = 3.564 exatons
Zetten Base Ichika/Dark-Cloaked Black Musha Ichika = 11.83 exatons
Zetten Dark-Cloaked Black Musha Ichika = 236.56 exatons
Finally, moon level, tier 5 Black Clover
 
I’ll adjust the OP.
Seeing how Clover’s scaling is generally accepted I’ll abandon my scaling. Will take me a bit since I’m working on Tokyo Revengers calcs too
 
I think that scan is fine, can I just ask that in Naalith’s justification, y’all include a scene of Nacht sensing the power of the funny plot sword when people pour power into it. Ik a scene like that exists cuz I’ve seen it somewhere, but it’s prolly good to include it as proof Nacht is aware of the meteor busting blade’s power. Otherwise my faith in Clover’s scaling seems reaffirmed.
 
Anything else to do?

I think the scaling numbers might slightly change/update, considering the magical power Conrad collected was going to destroy the continent (since Asta & Conrad should scale) but it most likely won't change by much, since the accepted calc for the destruction via singular point is only slightly higher than the meteor calc.

(Unless there's any reason to think Conrad using the mana in the veins of earth to amp the sword) which I doubt, and can address if more clarification is needed from me to anyone.
 
I also agree with what CloverDragon accepted.
 
I'll save the new keys (specifically Asta's Sword of the Wizard King key and the past Wizard King profiles) for later. I've applied all the changes for existing characters and keys
 
smh anyway

I will make the WK profiles when I get around to them

posting next crt soon.
 
Disagree with Naalith's upscaling just because he doesn't comment on swords power means nothing. Dued fought Lucifero aswell who's far stronger the Naalith and wasn't maddend by his power.

Also we don't know how much the meteor was nerfed by the anti magic
 
Disagree with Naalith's upscaling just because he doesn't comment on swords power means nothing. Dued fought Lucifero aswell who's far stronger the Naalith and wasn't maddend by his power.

Also we don't know how much the meteor was nerfed by the anti magic

He and everyone else commented on Lucifero’s power, he was reluctant to fight either of those supreme devils, but he was influenced by Asta to fight regardless of how impossibly strong his opponents were.

Anti Magic doesn’t neg Kinetic Energy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top