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BLACK CLOVER 2023 MOVIE CRT (PART 2); THE WIZARD KING SAGA ***CRT BACK ON!!***

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Well, with the recently revised calcs properly and correctly, the final result for the God tiers of the verse should still be enough to achieve a low 5-B from what i see
 
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Supporting calc here, we can probably use this while waiting for the other one to conclude. Worst case this becomes a supporting calc. So I’ll start updating the OP.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Just so you know this doesn’t really scale to anyone, because he was going to create a chain reaction with the mama vein beneath the country.
Click to expand...

It scales to Compound Magic Conrad and False Bargain Mode Asta who negated all that power propagating throughout the kingdom by hitting Conrad and the imperial sword with a solid hit.

I wouldn’t call it a chain reaction. The sword just needed a way to propagate all its energy. It’s not as tho Conrad was gonna give the kingdom one giant slash.


SeijiSetto said:
Arc kinda has a point. It'd be like shooting a gas pipe in a building to ignite it and make it explode. That isn't a street level feat because of the bullet, it needed the gas pipe too.
Click to expand...

No. Wrong analogy. It is equivalent to supplying the building with so much gas that it explodes. The sword is the gas supplier.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yeah I still disagree for the reason I stated. Hitting a mana vein, which naturally would be filled with mana, is 100% amping the attack beyond its normal AP.
Click to expand...

You’re free to disagree but you don’t really have proof that the mana veins already contained mana. If I had to guess you’re assuming they already do based off the name “mana” veins, so I see where you are coming from but they’re also called earth veins.

Mana veins are just ways magic power can be propagated for certain uses. They do not inherently contain mana and they are not always used for destruction. Conrad has used a singularity to transfer mana from the sword into the veins before, he used this to manipulate the arena at the start of the movie into a flying fortress. So they’re just means mana can flow within the earth.

Infact when Asta negates the sword, it also negated the mana flowing within the veins. This implies all the mana within the veins came from the sword. So I implore you to think about the earth veins as a circuit waiting for power to flow throw them.
 
I mean everything I said can’t be explained away via Occam’s razor. The fact that it’s also called earth vein is enough refute it.

So the fact that we don’t see any mana after Asta negates them means it all came from a source (the sword), not from the earth just means you’re unwilling to accept it.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
I mean everything I said can’t be explained away via Occam’s razor. The fact that it’s also called earth vein is enough not to invoke it.

So the fact that we don’t see any mana after Asta negates them means it all came from a source (the sword), not from the earth.
Click to expand...
I’m not taking your unbacked claims at face value Arnold. Gimme some time stamps so I can see where your interpretation comes from.
 
Glad you’re satisfied. I hope that chipotle is trash since you put me through all that work getting scans.
 
Yeah seeing the scans offsite, Conrad specifically states it is a vein of mana. Which explicitly denotes mana being within the vein. Just as a glass of wine is a glass filled with wine, that vein is filled with mana.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yeah seeing the scans offsite, Conrad specifically states it is a vein of mana. Which explicitly denotes mana being within the vein. Just as a glass of wine is a glass filled with wine, that vein is filled with mana.
Click to expand...

And like I told you just before you changed your mind. it doesn’t literally mean there must be something within said container before an “of” is applied to describe what that contain is. Just as a wine glass is still a glass of wine in a colloquial sense since it once contained wine doesn’t mean a vein of mana can’t be described as such even if it once contained mana.

you’ve seen the correct context. You’ve also seen it called “veins of the earth”. you’ve literally seen mana veins WITHOUT MANA. that makes my interpretation the correct one. All the mana within said “vein” came from a source, the imperial sword.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
And like I told you just before you changed your mind. it doesn’t literally mean there must be something within said container before an “of” is applied to describe what that contain is. Just as a wine glass is still a glass of wine in a colloquial sense since it once contained wine doesn’t mean a vein of mana can’t be described as such even if it once contained mana.

you’ve seen the correct context. You’ve also seen it called “veins of the earth”. you’ve literally seen mana veins WITHOUT MANA. that makes my interpretation the correct one. All the mana within said “vein” came from a source, the imperial sword.
Click to expand...
Veins of the earth as in they find their origins in the planet yes. That’s entirely different from being veins of mana and does not debunk the notion that veins of mana are filled with mana. Just as a glass of an establishment being a glass of wine doesn’t debunk the notion it is filled with wine. Also, Asta stopping the dude from using the sword doesn’t prove your premise either. Conrad still has to use the sword to complete the chain reaction, if he cannot do that, the vein of mana will simply lay dormant.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
And like I told you just before you changed your mind. it doesn’t literally mean there must be something within said container before an “of” is applied to describe what that contain is. Just as a wine glass is still a glass of wine in a colloquial sense since it once contained wine doesn’t mean a vein of mana can’t be described as such even if it once contained mana.

you’ve seen the correct context. You’ve also seen it called “veins of the earth”. you’ve literally seen mana veins WITHOUT MANA. that makes my interpretation the correct one. All the mana within said “vein” came from a source, the imperial sword.
Click to expand...
I think you actually brought up a great point. I just cross referenced the Japanese subtitles with the English (non CC) and Japanese specifically calls it "earth vein" not "mana veins" or "veins of mana"

Here in English, they're called veins of earth

and here in Japanese they're called "earth veins" and for reference 地脈 translates to earth vein. Mana「魔マナ」 wasn't mentioned once in the Japanese when Conrad was describing the process in that sentence,
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Veins of the earth as in they find their origins in the planet yes. That’s entirely different from being veins of mana and does not debunk the notion that veins of mana are filled with mana. Just as a glass of an establishment being a glass of wine doesn’t debunk the notion it is filled with wine. Also, Asta stopping the dude from using the sword doesn’t prove your premise either. Conrad still has to use the sword to complete the chain reaction, if he cannot do that, the vein of mana will simply lay dormant.
Click to expand...


Now you’re implying there is another context
of the preposition “of” aside from “it must contain this”. Why didn’t you say veins of the earth means it contains earth within it.

Obviously the answer is because “of” is simply used to express a relationship between two objects and that there are many different ways to contextualize it.

This is the context. veins of mana can not contain mana without a source, (the sword).

Asta negated the magic of the sword along with all the mana the sword provided within the veins.
 
Xinsignia1 said:
I think you actually brought up a great point. I just cross referenced the Japanese subtitles with the English (non CC) and Japanese specifically calls it "earth vein" not "mana veins" or "veins of mana"

Here in English, they're called veins of earth

and here in Japanese they're called "earth veins" and for reference 地脈 translates to earth vein mana「魔マナ」 wasn't mentioned once in the Japanese.
Click to expand...

WHUTTTT☠️ nice lol but still the context should’ve been clear. Arc initially understood that and simply changed his mind as soon as he saw Conrad calling it vein of mana.
 
oh wait I just saw the scan you used. Arc was referring to when Conrad called the same veins , veins of mana
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
WHUTTTT☠️ nice lol but still the context should’ve been clear. Arc initially understood that and simply changed his mind as soon as he saw Conrad calling it vein of mana.
Click to expand...
lol I'm no expert in Japanese., but if anything i've learned English translations sometimes botch the intention/translation hence why I often default to the original language for the proper context/wording. In short, I agree with you.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Now you’re implying there is another context
of the preposition “of” aside from “it must contain this”. Why didn’t you say veins of the earth means it contains earth within it.

Obviously the answer is because “of” is simply used to express a relationship between two objects and that there are many different ways to contextualize it.

This is the context. veins of mana can not contain mana without a source, (the sword).

Asta negated the magic of the sword along with all the mana the sword provided within the veins.
Click to expand...
Yes but of here is used to denote what is contained by the vein. Nothing here supports your random interpretation that vein of mana just means mana can run through it. Asta didn’t negate the mana veins either, he simply stopped Conrad from using the sword.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Yes but of here is used to denote what is contained by the vein. Nothing here supports your random interpretation that vein of mana just means mana can run through it. Asta didn’t negate the mana veins either, he simply stopped Conrad from using the sword.
Click to expand...

I can’t tell if this is strawman at this point.

i never said Asta negates the mana vein. He didn’t negate the mana vein because there is no mana unless it comes from a source. Asta negated the mana from the source.

Asta literally says he negated the source and all the mana within the exposed vein vanished as you’ve seen in the earlier scan.

Also, He did not stop Conrad from using the sword, he merely defeated him before all the mana from the sword went throughout the veins in the entire kingdom and explode.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
I can’t tell if this is strawman at this point.

i never said Asta negates the mana vein. He didn’t negate the mana vein because there is no mana unless it comes from a source. Asta negated the mana from the source.

Asta literally says he negated the source and all the mana within the exposed vein vanished as you’ve seen in the earlier scan. He did not stop Conrad from using the sword, he merely defeated him before all the mana from the sword went throughout the kingdom and explode.
Click to expand...
Yes he negated the sword. That is not the same as negating the power of the sword + the mana in the vein.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
The mana isn’t disappearing. It’s just becoming dormant again. Mana can exist without being volatile. Not all mana is constantly in the state of exploding. That scan doesn’t prove what you’re claiming.
Click to expand...

You see the magical energy shining it’s light through the exposed “veins”. So that light disappearing indicates there is no more energy within it.

Mana always exist in the form of pure shining energy regardless of if it’s used or not for literally anything. So yes it proves the power flowing within the veins came from the sword and that “of” was used in this context.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
You see the magical energy shining it’s light through the exposed “veins”. So that light disappearing indicates there is no more energy within it.

Mana always exist in the form of pure shining energy regardless of if it’s used or not for literally anything. So yes it proves the power flowing within the veins came from the sword and that “of” was used in this context.
Click to expand...
No it simple doesn’t. The light disappearing just means it’s no longer volatile not that all the mana just disappeared.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
It’s not glowing prior to Conrad sticking his sword into a vein filled with mana.
Click to expand...

Because the veins are covered by the earth which are later cracked as power flows through it. This isn’t a valid rebuttal.

Also Conrad has infused the earth veins with mana before and that flow re-constructed his fortress and allowed it fly. So if there was already mana within the veins, why was the arena still an arena and not a Flying Fortress? Is it because there is no power in the vein to make it happen?
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Because the veins are covered by the earth which are later cracked as power flows through it. This isn’t a valid rebuttal.

Also Conrad has infused the earth veins with mana before and that flow re-constructed his fortress and allowed it fly. So if there was already mana within the veins, why was the arena still an arena and not a Flying Fortress? Is it because there is no power in the vein to make it a fortress?
Click to expand...
Not at all, I have no interest in repeating myself. And that’s what we are doing rn, repeating our points over and over. So we can leave it up to staff votes, and I’ll clarify stuff if someone brings forth something new.

I remain of the stance that a vein of mana contains mana just like a glass of water contains water.
 
Well I remain on the stance of Julius and Conrad that the Clover Kingdom’s imminent explosion is directly from the energy released all at once from the composite magical energy within the sword.

A cable of electricity can also be called an electrical cable. And it doesn’t have to contain electricity for it to remain such. Hence why your glass of wine argument is a strawman.

Let’s move on to the meteor in the Calc group thread while we wait.
 
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