The DBZ Speeds...

[Antvasima]

Well, I have asked Lord Kavpeny in private to look through this and the Naruto discussion again regarding cinematic time, but he seems to be very busy.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Ant

It functions more as an addition than a retcon.

@Schutzen

Alright, thanks. Where'd you find that, by the way?

Anyway, I'm off to bed, but I'll check back in on this when I get up.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Good night. I hope that Lord Kavpeny will weigh in on this soon. My judgement is unreliable nowadays.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

@Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot: I asked a few people to look around after I got their answer and I asked FanofRPGs the person who provided me with that in the first place his reply was similar let's just leave it at that for now. I'm still waiting for a few more answers on that actually....

 

[LordAizenSama]

due to the point made about piccolo not shouting be gone for 17 seconds, while im against cinematic timing, on THIS occasion ill have to go with it, because 17 seconds is way to long to try shout that. seriously try it in real life, not too loud though or people gunna think you're special.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

Can anybody do the calc for the manga version using other method? 17 second looks unrealistic

 

[Stefano4444]

So, if the case that the cinematic time is accepted for this feat, that would mean that the KI Blast of Piccolo was travel at least 40% of the speed of light, right?

So by use the same method used by SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 in the previous blog, we going to have both Goku SSj and Frieza 100% at MFTL speed (at least 160 times FTL).

So in that case, is clear that most characters of the Buu Saga (and the high tiers of the Cell Saga) would be likely MFTL+.

 

[LordAizenSama]

nowhere was it said that it is x50 to all stats, speed increases,sure, but Nobody knows exactly how much.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Master Roshi's moon buster is an outlier because King Piccolo (Who's far stronger than Roshi) only displayed city busting power with his strongest attack (That being the Explosive Demon Wave)

Piccolo's ki blast when he destroyed the moon was really casual and required no charge up time. Neither did Vegeta's Galick Gun.

I sincerely request you stop derailing this thread.

 

[The_Everlasting]

So you're just gonna randomly call a guy a wanker? I can just call you a downplayer you know. Piccolo gathered his ki energy into his fist and fired it, it's not the same as "charging" like the Spirit Bomb.

The difference is thet didn't have conservation of energy back then, whereas they needed it during DBZ. That and Raditz, during the fight with Piccolo and Goku did not go all-out against them, he was beating them up rather casually.

Regardless, this is entirely off-topic, and I request you drop this now.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Do you even know how DBZ works? All attacks have a restrained AOE or else there would be no story. Do you really want to argue Frieza's Supernova being >>> Vegeta's Final Explosion simply because of the lack of area-of-effect?

Kai is not filler, it's what we consider the most recent canon and the one we're using.

For the last time, stop derailing.

 

[FanofRPGs]

Kai was stated to be canon by Torishima and flashback footage in DBS uses DBZ Kai

 

[FanofRPGs]

The Super Anime is canon, not the manga

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The irrelevant posts have been removed, and the troll has been blocked for a month. I vaguely recall that this isn't the first time he derails a thread either.

Since this is an important issue for this wiki, let's please return to being on-topic.

 

[Aimenaltair]

I don't like using cinematic event, i instead suggest that you guys should re-calculate the entire speed of the blast, because if we use DB's cinematic event we should use it for other fictional verses as well or else it would be unfair.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I don't like using cinematic event, i instead suggest that you guys should re-calculate the entire speed of the blast, because if we use DB's cenimatic event we should use it for other fictional verses as well or else it would be unfair.

ok- the only other option is to consider the time as considerably LESS than 4 seconds (since thats what happens in every dbz fight scene)


also that 17 second thing has its weak points

 

[L5V7M5L4D5]

If the upgrade is accepted, how fast will Cell saga characters be?And Buu saga?

 

[Aimenaltair]

TLT1: or we can calculate the timeframe once again, i know the 17 second is absurd and we shouldn't take it into considiration.

 

[Aimenaltair]

If the upgrade is accepted, how fast will Cell saga characters be?And Buu saga?

Most likely FTL+/MFTL to MFTL+ for the top tier of the buu saga.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

TLT1: or we can calculate the timeframe once again, i know the 17 second is absurd and we shouldn't take it into considiration.

but what else can we use

OH WAIT WAITWAIT

we have the time it takes for light to come back

now subtract that from total time'

and take the ratio of this new time and time it takes for light to come back

and we can use this ratio for speed

i mean the flow of time wouldnt randomly change in the middle of a scene right, so the ratios can be taken

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

in this case, cimenatic time can be used as the light from the moon comes back in the same scene- so considering the flow of time as constant through the scene (comnsidering otherwise would be absurd), we can use the normal time methods to calculate speed- which gives us a speed of 0.4713C

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask the calculation group about if this is workable.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

okay

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Anyone, isn't it Toriyama himself say that it took 17 seconds, or am I wrong. I remember reading that somewhere in the thread.

 

[Aimenaltair]

Anyone, isn't it Toriyama himself say that it took 17 seconds, or am I wrong. I remember reading that somewhere in the thread.

No he didn't he said that the distance betwenn moon and earth is the same, the 17 second was just timeframed from rocks and piccolo.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ohh. My fault. Hehe.

 

[Aimenaltair]

We all make mistakes bro.

 

[Unclechairman]

I'm fine with using DBZ Kai's timeframe, but the argument of cinematic timing is an entirely legit one. This is especially true for Dragon Ball, where blasts DRASTICALLY vary in speed depending on the tone or pacing of the scene (unless that one mountain Piccolo blew up was farther away from them than the moon).

And what is your standard for assuming this is an abuse of cinematic time? The very fact that the blast seemingly travelled slower than the one which Piccolo shot at the moon? A simpler solution would be that the blast simply travelled slower.

Speaking of which, *ahem* pardon me for not bringing this up earlier, but I seem to recall reading that the OBD considers this (Piccolo's moon-busting blast speed) an outlier because it travelled so much faster than any other blast shot in the entire saga. They may have a point.

 

[Pocket-Chu]

Quick questioin, if these speed upgrades are accepted will they affect only dbz speeds or will GT characters get a speed upgrade as well?

 

[Unclechairman]

I'm fairly certain the GT characters would be upgraded as they're scaled to everything that's not related to Dragon Ball Super.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

hold on guys forget about abuse or anything: how about this? ok?

we take the total time of the even (time difference of piccolo firing and the moon starting to shine)- and we take out the time for light to come back from the moon

then we make a ratio of this new time to the time taken by light to come back from the moon

this ratio is the inverse of the ratio of the speed of light and the speed of them beam

this is possible since the time flow rate is the same through the whole scene!

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

What if we consider the whole moon bust speed to be an outlier... just throwing this out here...

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

What if we consider the whole moon bust speed to be an outlier... just throwing this out here...

and what makes it an outlier exactly?

any other big speed feat in dbz is travel speed

this is directly relating to combat speed and reaction speed

also, relooking at the scene, the time is more so around 3.5 to 4 seconds (the time between the beam getting sent off and the moon starting to shine)

using simple ratios we can get the speed

 

[Unclechairman]

Then this entire discussion and all other ones relating to it were pointless, which is why I was a bit hesitant to mention it.

 

[FanofRPGs]

What if we consider the whole moon bust speed to be an outlier... just throwing this out here...

It is not an outlier, as we still have Goku swatting Death Beams to use

 

[Unclechairman]

and what makes it an outlier exactly?

The fact that it travelled far faster than any other attack shot in the entire saga and beyond.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

and what makes it an outlier exactly?

The fact that it travelled far faster than any other attack shot in the entire saga and beyond.

and how exactly are those other attacks slower?.....

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Nah its considered an outlier in obd because goku post king kai training was hypersonic crossing snake way road.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

@The Living Trubunal1: Hmmmm... just the fact that it's an absurdly high speed when compared to the previous speed stats would make it an outlier.

There's also the fact that there's literally nothing later on that can be calculated which would result in a similar speed stat...

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

I would like to see an accepted calc which results in Relativistic or higher from later on in the series if there are any...