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The DBZ Speeds...

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SchutzenDunkelZiel1217 said:
Unclechairman said:
Does said jump come with a viable explanation (such as a powerup)?

If so, yes I would. Darkspine Sonic is Universal for a reason.
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Viable explanation that I can't say as I don't really know if it would be truly legit. But what if that feat was contradicted later on...
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I doubt it would be, as Darkspine Sonic was a one-off thing. But if he appeared again and struggled numerous times with beings far weaker than Universe level with no explanation, then him defeating a Universe level being would risk being classed as an outlier. This is the point I'm trying to make; for something to be an outlier, it typically has to be contradicted by what comes after, especially in shounen manga that typically set up linear scales of power (usually based on the Sorting Algorithm of Evil trope).
 
@The Living Tribunal1: I don't understand why you'd bring that up...

@Uncle chairman: Very Well then....
 
Oh.

Planet level and Supersonic+ Saiyan Saga characters. They'd never win another fight against another Planet level character.
 
When literally nothing else supports it yeah...

And Goku traveling Snakeway was Hypersonic right...
 
It applies to the whole Faster than Lightning thing back in Dragon Ball unless ya consider that as Combat speed...
 
I remember that thng about getting the crown that summons lightning was filler, but it was stated in the manga that Goku trained with Popo and learned being faster than lighting that way.
 
How was it contradicted? The next thing we see after that training was Piccolo Jr. Vs. Goku, and after that, the Raditz fight. and then, the moon busting thing, nothing has contradicted it.
 
Unless ya shown me a feat where Goku was indeed Faster Than Light it isn't gonna mean much and that statement would be disregarded as it's contradicted way later on...
 
Snake way feat is the only thing contradicting itself because they have been shown to make faster than that.
 
Yeah no they haven't.

1) No MHS feats in Dragon Ball part 1.

2) Questionable Outlier Relativistic feat with the moon bust and nothing else...

Dragon Ball doesn't have almost any notable speed feats...
 
FTL things didn't happen until Namek Saga (unless you count Goku dodging Ten Shin Han's Tayo-ken, but that was just a gag), and the other problem is that other than the lightning statement made by Popo, is powerscaling by other characters. Also, no it hasn't been contradicted, only been supported, i don't want to sound rude, but, i think the better question is what is opposing them being faster than lightning?
 
The snakeway thing is not even a factor because combat speed Ôëá travel speed, in fact, combat speed is >>> travel speed, so they can still be Hypersonic traveling speed and MHS+ in combat speed/reaction speed
 
Aaaaand, the fact that we have the moon busting thing, wich is our only feat to calc, is considered an "outlier", that doesn't make any sense, you asked for a feat, you got it, and now you don't accept it because it's not the same speed you considered them to be...just a little flash back at DBS ep 12 will make us remember what this means.
 
Alexcar3000 said:
The snakeway thing is not even a factor because combat speed Ôëá travel speed, in fact, combat speed is >>> travel speed, so they can still be Hypersonic traveling speed and MHS+ in combat speed/reaction speed.
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Yeah show me one MHS feat and the faster than lightning isn't considered as Combat Speed...
 
There was nothing remotely close to the Universe level DB, then we got it in Ep 12 and some called it an outlier because that wasn't the level of power they considered the characters to be, and the same can apply to the moon busting thing, the fact that well, "nothing" seemed that fast before because we "didn't" have the feats and then it happens after some years worth of training seems "off", but again, we "didn't" had anything like that right, so you can't call it an outlier because we knew nothing about their speed and nothing contradicts it later.
 
Wbaez93 said:
I call that PIS.
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Based on what exactly. The relativistic feat is now considered as Combat speed.

The Snake way Travelling speed is the only legit one we have.

And Feat > Statement. And this is why the MHS statement is contradicted...
 
There wasn't any statement nor feat contradicting the MHS+ thing, only supporting it.
 
The feat that happened later on doesn't contradict it in any way or form, yes it was considerably faster, but that's after some years worth of training.
 
Well Dragon Ball Super showed us the feats of Goku's fight with Beerus. It also needs to be contradicted for it to be considered as an outlier although Chapter 6 of Super's manga implied that Champa and Beerus were going to destroy the universe so it seems that Toriyama may not backtrack. Anyway this thread is about the speed of Dragon Ball characters before Super. How is this going to affect the speed of Namek Arc, Cell arc and Buu arc characters if Part 1 Dragon Ball characters are going to be downgraded to Hypersonic?
 
@Alexcar3000: Hmmmm...

1) You do know that the "Faster than Lightning" speed thing was for all speed stats right not for just combat speed....

2) There's no feats which support MHS and later on the Snakeway feat contradicted it...

3) You said ya considered the Relativistic feat as Combat speed right...

4) Combat speed has no relation to travel speed as such the Relativistic Feat would never support it even if it wasn't an outlier...
 
Well, only for the stats on early arcs if someone wants to make a Vs...also the actual God Tiers speed were calced based on travel speed, and if we know the differences in early DBZ with combat speed and travel speed, we may get an idea of how fast the God Tiers actually fight. Edit: This was on response to @Oblivion00
 
Are we arguing about travel speed here? What's the point of arguing about travel speed? It mostly ends up useless in fights anyway.
 
Alexcar3000 said:
Well, only for the stats on early arcs if someone wants to make a Vs...also the actual God Tiers speed were calced based on travel speed, and if we know the differences in early DBZ with combat speed and travel speed, we may get an idea of how fast the God Tiers actually fight.
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Don't avoid the question... I'll deal with the Relativistic thing later... For now yes the MHS statement... again you do know that's not just for combat speed as it never implied that. It was just speed is general which is usually travel speed...

Now it get contradicted later on with the snakeway feat. And the Relativistic feat won't help here. Combat speed doesn't effect travel speed...
 
Unclechairman said:
Are we arguing about travel speed here? What's the point of arguing about travel speed? It mostly ends up useless in fights anyway.
Click to expand...
That's what it's come down to I guess...
 
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