The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

[Reiner04]

If he/she is equivalent in the form of Para Brahman then yes. The profile and show as I remember seem to suggest 0 or at the very least High 1-A+.

• Everything belongs to one and is one in essence.
• Mahadeva, Narayana and Brahma, despite being 3 different aspects are one in essence & cannot be differentiated is pretty much stated multiple times.
• Infinite, formless, shapeless.
• Beyond definition & cannot be defined by and under worldly things.
• Cannot be created or destroyed.
• Unaffected by changes in the Universe.
• Everything is illusion with him being the ultimate truth.

probably he gonna have two keys, with a True Form key being that high

Yeah.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

• Everything belongs to one and is one in essence.

Needs more but close enough to 0.

• Mahadeva, Narayana, and Brahma, despite being 3 different aspects are one in essence & cannot be differentiated is pretty much stated multiple times.

That's hard to say because of the view but if that shows specifically abide by that then seems 0.

• Infinite, formless, shapeless.

Needs more context though within this context, seems 0.

• Beyond definition & cannot be defined by and under worldly things.

Not really needed but helps with the other points.

• Cannot be created or destroyed.

If similar in nature to the true Platonic Forms and Ideas then, yes.

• Unaffected by changes in the Universe.

If he/she is the reality beyond that which it is all and only conforms to its notion of pure existence then it seems like 0.

• Everything is illusion with him being the ultimate truth..

Ultima uses that allegory for 0.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@Ultima_Reality Do you still plan on re-opening https://vsbattles.com/threads/removal-of-negative-theology-scaling.154924/ at some point to clarify stuff?

 

[ZwartD]

I'm still waiting for Ultima's reply about my question.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Alright, so, to make it absolutely crystal clear: By "quality" or "property," here, I don't mean "An adjective."

Generally speaking, I'd say tier 0 is really just "Undifferentiated super-substance that exceeds qualitative distinction."

So what does quality and property actually mean here, and what do those words mean in actuality?

Generally asking.

 

[Scottycj256]

i feel like a better way to boil it down would be the way Ultima described 1-A and High 1-A

Low 2-C to Low 1-A: Quantitative superiority

1-A: Qualitative superiority

High 1-A: Meta-qualitative superiority

0: Absolute superiority (since there can be only one Tier 0 per verse, and Tier 0 is supposed to be a being with divine simplicity, one essence, transcending quality (aka ANY distinctive identifiers) itself)

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Wait, so other than the characters mentioned in the thread who else qualifies, I'm assuming Aslan and most "god" inspired characters fit the bill

also dc getting boundless lmfao, didn't think that would happen

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I feel like Night should be High 1-A, the Void should be High 1-A+, and Yahweh's true form is 0.

would crisis cosmology be upgraded here?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

would crisis cosmology be upgraded here?

There’s no absolute in the Cosmology because despite the fact I told them to separate the Light and the Presence. They didn’t and I guess the Darkness and Light are coequal.

As for the Tier 1 excluding the 0 for the reason above. Then maybe the Great Darkness could be maybe High 1-A which goes with the Light as well. However, the Crisis Cosmology does not seem to elude R>F given the mods are disagreeing it with where it jumps to. Better ask Ultima for his thoughts since the the revisions are still being worked on.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

There’s no absolute in the Cosmology because desire the fact I told them to separate the Light and the Presence. They didn’t and I guess the Darkness and Light are coequal.

As for the Tier 1 excluding the 0 for the reason above. Then maybe the Great Darkness could be maybe High 1-A which goes with the Light as well. However, the Crisis Cosmology does not seem to elude R>F given the mods are disagreeing it with where it jumps to. Better ask Ultima for his thoughts since the the revisions are still being worked on.

fair enough, tho i do recall ultima saying platonism would be considered outer, which the blog does say this. But this should wait till he finished the boundless stuff and actually talk about upgrading verses

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

The "Spiritual" cosmology and Seekers into the Mystery will be Tier 0 due to DeMatteis incorporating these exact ideas of a super-essence into them. I'm unsure about where the Crisis cosmology and Vertigo scale but do believe them to be at least 1-A under the new system.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

fair enough, tho i do recall ultima saying platonism would be considered outer, which the blog does say this. But this should wait till he finished the boundless stuff and actually talk about upgrading verses

As much as I want to believe it. Platonic is no way used right in any of those scans.

 

[Deagonx]

fair enough, tho i do recall ultima saying platonism would be considered outer, which the blog does say this. But this should wait till he finished the boundless stuff and actually talk about upgrading verses

True platonic forms are unchanging, which does not apply to the Sphere whatsoever.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

True platonic forms are unchanging, which does not apply to the Sphere whatsoever.

and true platonic forms is tier 0

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

and true platonic forms is tier 0

what about regular platonic forms is that a thing

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

and true platonic forms is tier 0

How could they be tier 0 if there are probably infinite distinct forms. Which all also have the inherent property of good and beauty.

 

[demonwarrior2266]

So what happened? I've been following the CRT on and off. So was the decision made? The impression I'm getting from certain things I've seen is that Ultima won and it ended up being passed. What has been happening?

 

[Karabach-barabach]

Tier 0 revisions, that's what's happening

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I’m still not 100% certain where Tier 0 comes from when it comes to Seekers into the Mystery, and I read the entire thing more than once.

 

[Deagonx]

and true platonic forms is tier 0

There can only be one Tier 0. There's multiple forms.

 

[Lasting900]

Can there be multiple Tier 0 (s) if they all just aspects of the one being?

There can only be one Tier 0. There's multiple forms.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

@The_2nd_Existential_Seed Not helpful.

 

[Undylan]

So verses with multiple tier 0s are sorta getting downgraded huh?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

So verses with multiple tier 0s are sorta getting downgraded huh?

Yes. That’s been the case since the beginning….of time.

 

[Iiliminal]

Goku slams no diff

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

so what verses are gonna get tier 0 then?

 

[Tdjwo]

Goku slams no diff

I swear, you are a bot.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

@The_2nd_Existential_Seed Not helpful.

So you’re still not sure it’s 0 or did you understand it now? It’s pretty obvious if you only read certain text and issues and not trying to connect the whole thing.

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Goku slams no diff

be fr bruh

 

[KingNanaya]

so what verses are gonna get tier 0 then?

Yugioh Master Duel

 

[Karabach-barabach]

so what verses are gonna get tier 0 then?

Tokyo Revengers. I believe in Mikey supremacy!

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Yugioh Master Duel

peak

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

So you’re still not sure it’s 0 or did you understand it now? It’s pretty obvious if you only read certain text and issues and not trying to connect the whole thing.

When did I ever say what he supposedly "quoted"? The post that "quote" leads to says something completely different.

 

[Tdjwo]

so what verses are gonna get tier 0 then?

Dharmakhaya (JTTW)
Some Indian Soap Opera characters. @BestMGQScalerEver should know them
Swirl of the Root (Nasuverse)
Yog-Sothoth (Cthulhu Mythos)
God (Unsong) Not really sure
God(Seekers into the Mystery)
God(Divine comedy)
Jehovah (WOD)

 

[Tanin_iver]

Some Indian Soap Opera characters

I wonder if this will cause any outrage or spite.

 

[Tdjwo]

I wonder if this will cause any outrage or spite.

Wdym?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

When did I ever say what he supposedly "quoted"? The post that "quote" leads to says something completely different.

It’s just a question. I didn’t see the reference on where he quoted it from. However, I was intrigued to see your stance on it.

 

[Iiliminal]

I swear, you are a bot.

beep boop

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

There can only be one Tier 0. There's multiple forms.

The form of good

 

[Deagonx]

The form of good

Isn't usually interpreted as a monadic "ground of being."