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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

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vsbattles.fandom.com

Mana-Yood-Sushai

MĀNA-YOOD-SUSHĀĪ is the primordial entity that is responsible for creating the universe and along with its lesser deities. After creating the gods Mana-Yood-Sushai slept to the sound of Skarl's drumming and remained dormant. It is then determined that god may disturb him, that no mortals may...
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Tier 0 confirmed.
 
Strength - Agnaa
Speed - Agnaa
Intelligence - Ultima
Battle IQ - Agnaa
Durability - Ultima
Endurance - Ultima
Abilities - Agnaa
Power - Ultima
Agility/Reflexes - Tie
Stamina - Ultima
Flexibility - Agnaa
Hand to Hand Combat - Agnaa
Hax - Ultima
Scaling - Tie
Cosmology - Ultima
Attack Potency - Agnaa
Destructive Potency - Agnaa
Overall - Ultima
Score: 8-8
Winner: @VeryGoofyToddler
Difficulty - Negative Diffculty. Solos both.
 
755
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Strength - Agnaa
Speed - Agnaa
Intelligence - Ultima
Battle IQ - Agnaa
Durability - Ultima
Endurance - Ultima
Abilities - Agnaa
Power - Ultima
Agility/Reflexes - Tie
Stamina - Ultima
Flexibility - Agnaa
Hand to Hand Combat - Agnaa
Hax - Ultima
Scaling - Tie
Cosmology - Ultima
Attack Potency - Agnaa
Destructive Potency - Agnaa
Overall - Ultima
Score: 8-8
Winner: @VeryGoofyToddler
Difficulty - Negative Diffculty. Solos both.
Click to expand...
first the Indonesians, now this

when will the battleboarders stop powerscaling me?
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Strength - Agnaa
Speed - Agnaa
Intelligence - Ultima
Battle IQ - Agnaa
Durability - Ultima
Endurance - Ultima
Abilities - Agnaa
Power - Ultima
Agility/Reflexes - Tie
Stamina - Ultima
Flexibility - Agnaa
Hand to Hand Combat - Agnaa
Hax - Ultima
Scaling - Tie
Cosmology - Ultima
Attack Potency - Agnaa
Destructive Potency - Agnaa
Overall - Ultima
Score: 8-8
Winner: @VeryGoofyToddler
Difficulty - Negative Diffculty. Solos both.
Click to expand...
From how these stats are distributed, you seem to be saying that I'm a wizard. Is that correct?
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Strength - Agnaa
Speed - Agnaa
Intelligence - Ultima
Battle IQ - Agnaa
Durability - Ultima
Endurance - Ultima
Abilities - Agnaa
Power - Ultima
Agility/Reflexes - Tie
Stamina - Ultima
Flexibility - Agnaa
Hand to Hand Combat - Agnaa
Hax - Ultima
Scaling - Tie
Cosmology - Ultima
Attack Potency - Agnaa
Destructive Potency - Agnaa
Overall - Ultima
Score: 8-8
Winner: @VeryGoofyToddler
Difficulty - Negative Diffculty. Solos both.
Click to expand...
World is below... So high up, I'm near-divine

Lean in, let go... I feel fear for the very last time
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
Strength - Agnaa
Speed - Agnaa
Intelligence - Ultima
Battle IQ - Agnaa
Durability - Ultima
Endurance - Ultima
Abilities - Agnaa
Power - Ultima
Agility/Reflexes - Tie
Stamina - Ultima
Flexibility - Agnaa
Hand to Hand Combat - Agnaa
Hax - Ultima
Scaling - Tie
Cosmology - Ultima
Attack Potency - Agnaa
Destructive Potency - Agnaa
Overall - Ultima
Score: 8-8
Winner: @VeryGoofyToddler
Difficulty - Negative Diffculty. Solos both.
Click to expand...
What would be an ideal ost for their fight, though?
 
Yasuda_144 said:
Unlikely, the Darkness Between isn't ever implied to view the worlds as unreal or anything, and there'd also be way too many anti-feats anyway.
Click to expand...
Eh? Do you mean the Ocean Between? In any case, there's currently a "-1-A" (deepest in 11-C now that SCP is gone) structure in the cosmology, even if only out of notability concerns at the moment and being below the "baseline reality" (aka, where most events in the series take place, it'd be either this or basically making nearly everyone in the verse 1-A).

In the new system it could be argued to be "-High 1-A" as it involves the quality of being beyond a set of R>F layers as a whole, and I'm also waiting for KHIV to address the notability concerns for the most part.
 
Yeah, the Ocean Between is what I meant.

Also, I don't really know that much about Quadratum and the lore surrounding it (dropped out from KH during the wait for III lol), but from what I've heard from others it's less of a basic R > F thing and more of a "both realms view each other as fiction" thing where neither of them is actually less fundamental to reality than the other.
 
Considering the whole deal of dream layers preceding Quadratum since KH3D, and the fact Quadratum is explicitly below that and The Final World, the series seems to lean more to proper R>F from the Ocean Between's "side" of reality, Quadratum is seen as a mundane video game in Toy Story of all places.

But then again, it's undeniable that Yozora has a Chocobo zipper, his shirt has a ton of KH iconography as if it was merchandise, and the battle area in the secret ending of KHIII does feature further KH iconography in advertisements in the background, as if it was a product being sold.

It's possible Quadratum merely sees the Ocean Between as another sort of fiction, such as someone importing a real description of a world hard to believe on in what's meant to be our mundane world (Quadratum), then just selling it, or that merely both the Ocean Between and Quadratum see The Final World as fiction, and being separate otherwise.
 
Yeah, the evidence is far from conclusive so for. I guess the best thing to do is wait for KH IV to elaborate on Quadratum as a whole like you said before making a concrete judgement.
 
Grabbing_dragon said:
Is this 1A feat a higher level,dimensional thier only characters that transcerd dimensions live
https://meo3.comick.pictures/5-CxvNARXjg9hLm.png
Click to expand...
If i understand this right ontological superiority is 1A
So it is was 1A heaven is higher dimension that is a foundational world which is center point of all worlds and dimensions only characters that transcerad dimensions live thier .
And so this would be higher into 1A since thier
More higher dimension and more archetype
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
i dont know the exacts since i never read Unsong but from what i understand he has divisible potency or something like that (and into lower tiers so it wouldn't even be 1-A I think)
Click to expand...
No he doesn't. He only uses emanations as Ain Sof, which as far as I know still qualifies.
 
Gasper said:
Will God (Unsong) stay tier 0?
Click to expand...
No.
  1. Atzmus does not qualify as a monad, and is more fundamental than God.
  2. His power is divisible; His divine light gets transformed through celestial spheres into a form that won't quickly destroy reality, or cause it to collapse from a lack thereof. A few other beings are shown to wield this at times.
  3. The Comet King invoked God's omnipotence with the Shem haMephorash, while simultaneously drawing the power from the sephirot into himself. This caused bad things to happen, and Uriel warned that it would eventually destroy the world, but it didn't immediately do so.
  4. Beings which are part of God - Neil and Thamiel - are able to be have that status added and removed. There's very strong statements for that such as this.
  5. The difference between Metatron and God is said to be so small as to practically be a rounding error (might be a bit weaker, but I don't really get how one entity could be so much closer to "quality-less being itself" than any other entity).
  6. I think there's some others I told Ultima about that I'll dig up if maintaining that tier is seriously presented.
There's ways you could argue around that sort of thing, but they aren't really supported by the text, and imo feel kinda disingenuous, since they'd require turning over a lot of championed interpretations that have been on the profiles for years; as if the only reason they're being questioned is because they'd now act as contradictions.
 
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Agnaa said:
  1. The difference between Metatron and God is said to be so small as to practically be a rounding error (might be a bit weaker, but I don't really get how one entity could be so much closer to "quality-less being itself" than any other entity).
Click to expand...
Unsong Metatron is still very much not God and more like a self-insert character of God within His own story.

"God is ineffable, invisible, unspeakable, unknowable. He is the author of the world, not an entity in it. But sometimes it’s useful for an author to have a self-insert character, so to speak. Thus Metatron. Not God. Definitely not God. But slightly less not-God than anything else in Creation. And the things in creation were already rather less not-God than most of them would have expected. So Metatron’s not-God-ness was very low indeed, practically a rounding error." - Ch.71
 
Tyranno223 said:
Unsong Metatron is still very much not God and more like a self-insert character of God within His own story.

"God is ineffable, invisible, unspeakable, unknowable. He is the author of the world, not an entity in it. But sometimes it’s useful for an author to have a self-insert character, so to speak. Thus Metatron. Not God. Definitely not God. But slightly less not-God than anything else in Creation. And the things in creation were already rather less not-God than most of them would have expected. So Metatron’s not-God-ness was very low indeed, practically a rounding error." - Ch.71
Click to expand...
I know, that's why I didn't bring up that part.

I specifically pointed out how weird it is that one entity can be closer to God (have such low "not-God-ness") if God has no qualities, and is just the grounding of all being.
 
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i just saw high 1B and higher state of beings automatically gets infinite speed .
Does 1A and higher infinite speed > Immeasurable speed because thier beyond the notions needed for Immeasurable speed ?

​

 
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