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Everything you said, and I still don't see any practicalities of the suggested speed tier. Elaborate on why it is not any different from immeasurable speed?
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Sure, of course they could. But those concepts of space, causality, math, logic, etc - would be superior to conventional concepts of space, causality, math, logic, etc...The higher layers would still have their own concepts of space/causality/math logic.
Unless, you want to make it so strict, that only logicless voids of information can qualify for 1-A.
No, it doesn't, for reasons explained above.Sure, of course they could. But those concepts of space, causality, math, logic, etc - would be superior to conventional concepts of space, causality, math, logic, etc...
Sorry, it's probably a bit confusing for ppl because I keep switching how I describe the qualitative superiority thing. It's a bit hard for me to describe properly, tbh.
Basically, Ultima's system makes every extension of standard mathematical dimensionality stuff High 1-B, right... (all of that is within quantitative superiority whatever)
So like, if you're qualitatively superior to space n whatnot, reaching 1-A on his system, you are superior to the entirety of all conventional mathematical (quantifiable) extensions of space.
This would make you superior to what immeasurable covers by default I believe. You'd no longer be operating on the same concepts that those within immeasurable are operating on.
Does that make sense?
Well, whatever then. Maybe Ultima will clarify.No, it doesn't, for reasons explained above.
Stop it, he won't.Pretty sure he would need to add Irrelevant back, though.
No, not at all. Everything you said about being unbounded by those 'concepts' is different from 'immeasurable speed,' but you haven't explained why it's different. Don't just state that it's the case; explain it logically. Break down the reasons bit by bit.Does that make sense?
It lacks a single basis for how it practically works. We had no explanation of this concept whatsoever. Heck, we define speed as distance over time, without even considering the number of spatial dimensions involved.'''Irrelevant''' (Characters beyond, and qualitatively superior to, the concepts of dimensions of time and space themselves. Meaning: Tier 1-A and above.)
This is the comparison of all timeit's their role to evaluate and moderate threads...
wish I could go to work and ignore half my job description because I don't like it
I mean technically they would still be the same. Just one is fake and one is real. You would still apply the regular distance formula to the space in the higher layer. There is no “new” or alien math/concepts/logic for the higher levels unless the verse establishes such.Sure, of course they could. But those concepts of space, causality, math, logic, etc - would be superior to conventional concepts of space, causality, math, logic, etc...
Which reasoning are you referring to? I asked for a practical difference, but you did not provide any. Please don't just state that it's the case; explain it logically. Break down the reasons step by step. Otherwise, I don't understand why you believe this.I'm not very good at explaining this stuff, so I won't continue here. I tried above to give you my reasonings for it being different, but you said it didn't make sense so it's fine.
Beyond speed of what exactly? This in essence don't sound any different to immeasurable speed. Even if we add criteria stating that they need feats of superiority in a manner that allows surpassing immeasurable characters in terms of speed or supriority over speed, there would still be the problem that it can only be done relative to a certain layer of Immeasurable. An irrelevant speed character surpassing one time dimension could still not be considered superior to an Immeasurable character that surpasses two, three, or even aleph 99 many dimensions.Also, I will just say that, yeah, Irrelevant isn't even a "speed" rating, since the whole idea is that it's beyond speed, essentially.
Look, I don't want to sound mean, but the phrase 'Difficult subject to explain' doesn't sound sincere at all. It comes across as a dismissive excuse, especially since I'm just asking for your reasons. Knowing that one is right is meaningless if they can't explain it.Difficult subject to explain.
Anos solos that weak fodder of very existent 1AH misfitgoku is beyond irrelevant speed
Angus is not stronger than CarrotAnos solos that weak fodder of very existent 1AH misfit
I don't understand.Extraversal tier between Tier 2 and 1 when?
I don't understand.
That doesn't make sense as a tiering system and is also not what Ultima's proposing.I was kidding.
But I’ve been thinking about it being the new Tier 1 pushing the other tiers down. Thus pushing the other tiers downwards. i.e. complex multi to outer will be Tier 2.
…
…
…
Low Tier 2-A: Low Outer
Tier 2-A: Outer
High 2-A: High Outer.
Tier 1-C: R>F 1 layer
Tier 1-B: R>F 2-infinity
Tier 1-A: Above the concept of dimensionality and space
Tier 0: True boundless.
Fun to think about.
Bro just wrote the tier of DBZ goku.Tier 0: True boundless.
That doesn't make sense as a tiering system and is also not what Ultima's proposing.
I was kidding.
Oh yea, i had a response for your comment, that i forgot about due to being threadbannedThat doesn't make sense as a tiering system and is also not what Ultima's proposing.
I dont think it'd be weird at all, and it'd be more organized. It'd actually be more weird to put qualitative superiorities on the same classification as quantitive superiorities. It'd actually make more sense given how the tier is treated now:
Characters who can affect objects which completely exceed the logical foundations of High 1-A, much like it exceeds the ones defining 1-A and below, meaning that all possible levels of High 1-A are exceeded, even an infinite or uncountably amount of such levels. This tier has no endpoint, and can be extended to any higher level just like the ones above.
Relevant speedgoku is beyond irrelevant speed
relevant like your momRelevant speed
'Nough saidrelevant like your mom
No, it doesn't make sense. Relegating a verse to tier 11 or 12 simply because it acknowledges itself as fictional where others don't would shamelessly betray the whole purpose of RFT and make our tiers for them essentially a joke. Introducing layers that see the primary narrative as fiction introduces layers above the baseline; it doesn't retroactively make the main narrative inferior to the baseline. Introducing layers that the primary narrative sees as fiction would be creating narratives below the baseline.Lmao I’m reading the original thread rn and you guys already proposed expanding the tiering idea but rather than a new higher tier I was joking about y’all wanted to make “fiction” Tier 12… I see how that makes sense but I find it funny.
That falls under "introducing layers that the primary narrative sees as fiction," which is already Tier 11.In the context of where I am on the thread,
It does make sense for verses where the “main reality” creates a fictional entity within themselves. For example, let’s say Rick from Rick and Morty created a fictional universe. I can see why that world would be Tier 12.
the only way for there to make sense is to split tier 0, which i agree with ( but ultima doesnt to my knowledge.)I see, okay then.
Going back to previous posts, I want to talk about why new higher tiers can’t be made (aside from the massive work that comes with a change like that).
Most, if not all, of our tiers are based on dimensionality. When I jokingly proposed to make/adjust tier(s) that accommodate beings below boundless but above dimensionality (such as R>F or something of similar nature), you said it didn’t make sense. I’ve been wondering why. Can you elaborate?
I see, okay then.
Going back to previous posts, I want to talk about why new higher tiers can’t be made (aside from the massive work that comes with a change like that).
Most, if not all, of our tiers are based on dimensionality. When I jokingly proposed to make/adjust tier(s) that accommodate beings below boundless but above dimensionality (such as R>F or something of similar nature), you said it didn’t make sense. I’ve been wondering why. Can you elaborate?
The whole point of the tiers counting down from 11 instead of up from 0 is to allow Tier 0 to serve as an "endpoint" tier, and an "endpoint" tier having subcategories defeats the whole purpose of it existing.the only way for there to make sense is to split tier 0, which i agree with ( but ultima doesnt to my knowledge.)
tier 0 i s an end point because it exceeds all possible logical frameworks of the tiers below , which ultimas new proposed tier 1-A and H1-A do. You cant have a tier that exceeds all possible frameworks be in the same level as tiers within those frameworks. each tier has a common theme. tier 1 being the tier of higher infinities and cardinals, and tier 2 being the tier of universal structuresThe whole point of the tiers counting down from 11 instead of up from 0 is to allow Tier 0 to serve as an "endpoint" tier, and an "endpoint" tier having subcategories defeats the whole purpose of it existing.
1-C and 1-B are the tiers for higher infinities and cardinals. 1-A is the tier for metaphysical transcendences; Tier 0 is just a catchall category for anything metaphysical that's too big to be defined in 1-A.tier 0 i s an end point because it exceeds all possible logical frameworks of the tiers below , which ultimas new proposed tier 1-A and H1-A do. You cant have a tier that exceeds all possible frameworks be in the same level as tiers within those frameworks. each tier has a common theme. tier 1 being the tier of higher infinities and cardinals, and tier 2 being the tier of universal structures
Tier 1-A according to the currently tiering system, says nothing about metaphysicality, but directly mentions cardinals. Ultima's new tier is metaphysical in nature and therefore would be a great fit for the existing tier 0, with some modifications1-C and 1-B are the tiers for higher infinities and cardinals. 1-A is the tier for metaphysical transcendences; Tier 0 is just a catchall category for anything metaphysical that's too big to be defined in 1-A.
The whole point of Ultima's new revision is to knock anything cardinal-related to High 1-B+ because the number of characters in 1-A because of cardinals is so small compared to the number there for metaphysical transcendences that there's no point in having a distinct 1-X tier for them.Tier 1-A according to the currently tiering system, says nothing about metaphysicality, but directly mentions cardinals. Ultima's new tier is metaphysical in nature and therefore would be a great fit for the existing tier 0, with some modifications
In short:What would be the tiers?
Low 1-A -> one higher layer
1-A -> 2+ higher layers
High 1-A -> infinite layers
What exactly does this mean when metaphysical jumps are inherently illogical.
- High 1-A: A metaphysical jump that the logical foundations behind any possible extension of conventional metaphysical jumps.