The Boss/Saints Row Verse stats Revision

[Golden_Void]

It's just nice to know people believe that with no evidence other than "he's the Boss he fights the most so logically he must be the strongest!", which is yet another association fallacy. Especially when the feats say otherwise. Some of the arguments here are "why would he be weaker", when there's no definitive proof that he's stronger, and literally 99% of the verse scales to/from him.

 

[Kaltias]

Just a friendly reminder that first form Frieza absolutely obliterate Majin Buu if we only use feats. Feats do not matter if there are reasons to scale.

And no, we are saying that the person who goes around and fight is logically at least comparable to the intel girl

 

[Golden_Void]

As far as every other stat goes, sure. As far as those nukes go, well, you've seen the difference.

And if we used feats only Buu horribly blitzes frieza...

I would have no problem giving Kinzie and Boss their tiers based on the values I calc'd, and giving Boss likely Low 7-C, instead of just completely disregarding his feat for reasons above.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

Replying to the original post:

The explosion calc seems fine, a small explosion like that couldn't have a Town level yield.

Supersonic (mach 2.2 seems also fine)

I don't know about the rest.

 

[Antvasima]

@Gwynbleiddd Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. I think that the calculation can probably be used then, unless Kaltias and the other staff members disagree.

@Unite My Rice Please remember to post the calculation as a blog post, if you are going to update the profiles.

 

[Golden_Void]

Will do, Ant.

 

[Kaltias]

Alright, to be more thorough.

Since a military base is government/private, it is considered a PPR helipad/port.

Given that the Eagle has shorter rotors than a UH-60 Blackhawk, we can calculate the missing dimensions given the Blackhawk's parameters.

3.61m-1.33m = length of UH-60 rotor length past the body - Eagle's rotor length past the body = 2.28m. Accounting for both sides of the rotors, we do 2.28m(2) = 4.56m total subtracted from the rotor diameter.

So 16.35 - 4.56 = 11.79m rotor diameter.

It also has a different tail rotor.

19.76 - 1.981 = 17.779m

Add the length of the other tail rotor

17.779m + 2.697m = 20.476m = total helicopter length


So now we can more accurately scale the helipad.

Final approach and takeoff area (FATO)

Design the FATO so its minimum width, length, or diameter is 1› times the overall length (D) of the design helicopter

20.476m(1.5) = 30.714m.

In-game helipad

Final nuke result

0.0025Mt or 2500 tons of tnt, still Low 7-C. Now what to do with a 8-B feat from The Boss and a Low 7-C feat from Kinzie..

^ there is this one too.

I don't disagree with the calc itself, i'm just saying that if Kinzie did that she should have Low 7-C as a rating with the Boss being "At least Low 7-C" because he is likely stronger than her

 

[Golden_Void]

See you just said it yourself; " he is likely stronger than her" which is why he should be 8-B, likely Low 7-C.

 

[Kaltias]

No. He is definitely at least as strong and likely stronger.

That's why it would be "at least Low 7-C". Because he could be as strong or stronger

 

[Golden_Void]

@Gwynbleiddd

Kinzie's blast was almost 50x more potent than the Boss's. That said, I'm tempted to just suggest classifying her feat as an outlier honestly and have everyone at 8-B. Because it seems the general consensus is that nobody wants the Boss to be weaker than Kinzie, so that would satisfy the issue. Then that would bring up a whole bunch of arguments about nobody wanting them to be weak as well....

Ant, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this if you can.

 

[Antvasima]

I should probably mostly stay out of this, since I do not have much useful to add to the conversation.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Unite I have to ask, why are you so hell-bent on downplaying the Boss over the most insignificant reasons?

 

[Golden_Void]

From the Editing Rules:

Only create profiles for characters that you are very familiar with and know much about. Remember to present evidence or logical arguments regarding why they should be rated as they are.
There's no logical argument in trying to pass off a city block level attack as town level. I'm not downplaying anything, I'm getting rid of this obvious wank. And if it's so insignificant, then I can't really see why you're fighting me tooth and nail over this.

As you can see, many other people in this post including 2 calc team members agree that his town level rating is incorrect.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No one is trying to pass off a City Block level attack as a Small Town level attack, youre trying to dismiss a Small Town level attack is a Small Town level attack for ridiculous reasons

 

[Kaltias]

@UMR

Pretty much everyone agreed that the Boss should scale to Low 7-C as well

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind my previous interruption then.

 

[Golden_Void]

No one is trying to pass off a City Block level attack as a Small Town level attack, youre trying to dismiss a Small Town level attack is a Small Town level attack for ridiculous reasons

Quote me correctly and stop trying to demonize me. I said town, not small town, as in I was referencing the current tier, not what I just calc'd.

@Katlias Pretty much everyone = you and Weekly.

Like people above mentioned, why would the tech girl be stronger than the guy who does all the work right? Which is why I'm offering multiple reasonable solutions that apparently a certain person thinks I'm biased for.

 

[Kaltias]

Me, Weekly, Saikou and Ever (I think).

Antonio and Gwyn haven't commented about the scaling, only the calc.

 

[Golden_Void]

Saikou only said Boss's overall stats should scale from DFA. Everlasting's position is questionable, though he said it wouldn't make sense that only Kinzie gets the boost from her nuke (as we were discussing the differences between their techniques.)

 

[Kaltias]

So Ever said the same thing as me and Weekly. Fair enough about Saik though

 

[Golden_Void]

But he also said it would make no sense that Kinzie would be so much stronger than Boss.

 

[Kaltias]

Which means that the Boss scales from her?

 

[Golden_Void]

Except he clearly demonstrated a far weaker feat, which is why I also suggested an outlier. If we use this argument, then with that same logic, Roshi should've been the strongest in the DB manga, as well as stronger than Saiyan Saga Piccolo, because he busted the moon while he wasn't at 100%. And then everyone would scale to Roshi since they're somewhat comparable?

 

[Dark649]

I agree, Roshi feat is considered outlier because Young King Piccolo, (Who was strong enough to curbstomp him at the time) generated City level+ energy with his strongest attack.

 

[Golden_Void]

Exactly, Boss's strongest attack was city block level in AP then Kinzie comes along with a small town feat. With my numbers, the gap between their power is 86.4x.

 

[The_Everlasting]

The gap between 8-B and Low 7-C is nowhere near as extreme as the gap between 7-B and 5-C.

 

[Dark649]

Yes, because the jump in tier from 8-B here is only by two grades (8-A to Low 7-C) while Roshi was much bigger (7-B to 5-C, which is by ten grades).

 

[The_Everlasting]

Also, using mathematical differences in tiers would mean that upgrades would almost never happen because "the next feat is a few dozen/hundred/whatever times higher than the others".

 

[Golden_Void]

I wasn't using numbers to make a point, just trying to show that as far as that verse goes, their power is typically city block, the Boss's strongest attack is slightly above baseline city block, then that happens.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Typically"

No, it's just that the Boss has an 8-B attack.

"the Boss's strongest attack is slightly above baseline city block, then that happens."

Powerscaling is a thing, you know.

In Final Fantasy VII, the party's strongest attacks are like... City level, but they scale to a 4-B feat with Sephiroth's Supernova.

The fact that only Kinzie's attack is Low 7-C is irrelevant.

 

[Kaltias]

The whole purpose of scaling is that the stronger character scale despite the fact that it doesn't have feats as impressive as the weaker one. The difference between Roshi is that Roshi has a feat quintillion of times stronger than anything shown until the Saiyan saga. That's a different case

 

[Golden_Void]

Alright, so as not to drag this on any longer, everyone who can use the nuke ability/DFA scales to low 7-C via that ability.

What about everything else in the OP, and the lifting strength cited here and here ?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Speed

I'd like to see a calc for how fast one must be to create wind that is strong enough to pick up tanks but if no then the speed adjustment is alright i guess.

Lifting Strength

Still a good Class 100 physical feat even with the calc you did

Abilities

The AZ thing is fine

Kinzie's profile needs to be cleaned up then

I already explained the Zinyak thing

Shaundi was supposed to get a profile

 

[Golden_Void]

Alright, sounds good. Also, wouldn't people with control over the simulation technically have space/time powers within the simulation only?

In the ETD DLC (which starts with an alternate-world Zin invasion, according to Kinzie she takes over the Zin fleet as well) Dominatrix was the "dominant AI" of the simulation, and prior to fighting her for the final time, she rebooted the DLC back to the first mission, and Boss and Zimos had to get a way out to go back to their true position in the DLC. Her death was tied to the death of the simulation as well (even though its brought back again for the Santa DLC, though it's just another alternate simulatio )

In the subsequent DLC where the Saints save Christmas (canon, as it referenced the Saints defeating Zinyak and Dominatrix), the new simulation it took place in what Future Shaundi called "Santa's nightmare world". The intial stage stakes place in a big town, then they go to the North Pole. When you defeat Clawz in the North Pole he disappears, and Boss states that he probably went to some other simulation.

I could see Power Restriction as well, seeing that you can't use buffs or DFA at all in her DLC. It isn't even an option.

Also, Zimos and Clawz needs a profile too, I could probably write/ help write them up now.

Info regarding the tornado feat note : the fastest tornado ever recorded was 318mph, F5.

 

[Golden_Void]

Bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Spatial Manipulation, Matter Manipulation, Reality Warping, and Time Manipulation, yes. That would be for Zinyak, the Dominatrix, and Clawz.

Yeah, that would be power restriction/nullification

Go for it

Okay, but the question is whether or no that would be strong enough to pick up a tank

 

[Golden_Void]

Well it would all depend on the aerodynamics of the tank once wind is applied. But using an Abrams as a reference, weaker tornados have flung much heavier.


Also when can I start making the revisions?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

True but a tank has a smaller surface area than, say, a train, and it has a lower center of gravity which would make it much, much harder for an average tornado to move.

Once everything gets straightened out, and you should put the DFA calc in a blog post so it can be linked to the profiles.

 

[Golden_Void]

The world may never know then. Also yeah I'll start the blog soon.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nevr say never, i put in a request on the calc board, hopefully someone can help figure it out.