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The Boss and a simple girl with a murder impulse fight (Shiki Ryougi vs Diavolo)

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Let's put it this way, as long as it has a defined start and end point, she can cut and kill it. This includes predicted futures.

Diavolo's predictions are strange because they are stated to both show the future and also to ensure that future. That instant he looks into the future, he's added both a start and end point to a defined section of time in the future, and ensured that future will come about.

Shiki can cut that.
 
Because... that's exactly what he's doing. If he's seen 10 seconds into the future, those 10 seconds would have to happen. Otherwise, what exactly is Diavolo looking at?

The precog dude's power exerted no change in the timeline, the dude had to manually set everything up for the precognition to happen. He still got eye ****** because he was seeing said Future when it got cut, and there's no reason to believe Diavolo would be any different when his other and main power literally does spank the timeline and tells it to do what Epithat saw or else it gets the bat.
 
Since Epitaph is passive and KC's activation is thought-based, what's stopping Diavolo from just erasing the action of Shiki's precog cut and going in for the donut?
 
Why would he erase someone randomly flourishing a dagger in front of them? His future can't show itself being cut so that's what it would look like on his end.
 
She flourishes her dagger and he goes blind in one eye. Epitaph's predictions are absolute, but King Crimson gives time/fate the bat to let Diabolo do what he wants. And what he wants is to make the donuts.
 
... If that future was absolute, she wouldn't have done that because that's not how time works.

Regardless, isn't Diavolo's opening move to immediately erase time and go in for the kill? His whole fighting style is about ending battles quickly and decisively in one brutal blow.
 
She normally cant erase the future because it's uncertain, but because of Mitsuru second eye that can make the future abolute that she's able to erase it.


Why did the future change?!(Mitsuru)

It didn't change. There never was such thing as "the future." You can't interfere with something that doesn't exist.(Shiki)

Prediction is seeing the possibility of a future coming to pass. On the other hand, evaluation is purging all possibilities and bringing to pass the future you see. It's a special ability that far supassess prediction. However...(Touko)

The future is invicible because it is formless. But give it form, and it's only natural that it'll be broken. And your future was even clearer than the ridges on a screw. The moment you gave shape to the end of this, your future halted in its tracks.(Shiki)
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
Let's put it this way, as long as it has a defined start and end point, she can cut and kill it. This includes predicted futures.
Diavolo's predictions are strange because they are stated to both show the future and also to ensure that future. That instant he looks into the future, he's added both a start and end point to a defined section of time in the future, and ensured that future will come about.

Shiki can cut that.
Click to expand...
Except that Jojo already has a predetermined future before Diavolo ever observed it. If Diavolo never observes it, why would it rebound onto him? He hasn't "added" a start or an end point, those are already a thing. Giorno is notable because he specifically broke that fate, but all outcomes have a single possibility.

Let me put it like this. Jonathan/Johnny was fated to lose to Dio/Diego. Kars was fated to be blasted into space. Every single Zeppeli that met a Joestar was fated to die. Caesar was meant to be crushed by that rock. Will eas fated to pass his hamon to Jonathan. Jolyne was fated to end up in that prison, as were the rest of the inmates.

Diavolo does not guarantee his future, Epitaph just let's him see the already guaranteed future. King Crimson just let's him avoid his negative futures. He can change his fate with King Crimson, but it is not Epitaph that does this. Even when he changes his fate, the future is locked following that. If Shiki cuts a future, then a new future is locked in.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Because... that's exactly what he's doing. If he's seen 10 seconds into the future, those 10 seconds would have to happen. Otherwise, what exactly is Diavolo looking at?
The precog dude's power exerted no change in the timeline, the dude had to manually set everything up for the precognition to happen. He still got eye ****** because he was seeing said Future when it got cut, and there's no reason to believe Diavolo would be any different when his other and main power literally does spank the timeline and tells it to do what Epithat saw or else it gets the bat.
Click to expand...
No, he is not guaranteeing that future. That was already the future that was going to happen. See my reply to king of sunlight above.

Yes, he did. In the default Nasuverse cosmology, there are an infinite amount of futures before they are pruned off. If this guy predicting the future creates a single outcome, then he made it that way. Solomon, Goetia, Merlin, etc. Do not create a single possible future when they observe it, that is just how that guy's precog works. The reason it is different is because the Nasuverse has an infinite amount of possible outcomes, where as Jojo just has a single one. Diavolo observes an already guaranteed future, that is what makes it different. What solidifys this is that MiH's predetermined fate is not created by the reset. The reset just makes everyone aware of what their fate is. One of the major things that Giorno did is that he was able to defy fate, but that is a rare thing, and beyond specific cases like that, there is a single possible outcome from any senerio. That is not Epitaph's doing, that is Araki's doing.
 
If the future is already locked in simply from Diavolo being here, then it's a solid defined thing that Shiki can kill. And a new future wouldn't simply "lock in" because the future has been killed.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
If the future is already locked in simply from Diavolo being here, then it's a solid defined thing that Shiki can kill. And a new future wouldn't simply "lock in" because the future has been killed.
Click to expand...
When Diavolo uses King Crimson to erase a portion of time and change fate, then a new future is set in stone shortly after time resumes. Shiki would be no different. If she erases a future, a new one will be locked in place
 
Regardless of whether or not Shiki can interact with Epitaph's prediction, Diavolo is gonna open with a Time Skip the moment the fight starts and go for a donut, and since speed is equalized and the Time Skip catches even those aware of KC's ability by surprise, we've got a 9-B reacting and defending against an 8-C punch/chop.
 
The thing is all that 9-B has to do even if Diavolo, who is blind after his precog is destroyed by Shiki, goes for a donut is put her blade in the way and king crimson dies which kills Diavolo
 
Which is unlikely to happen given that King Crimson A. Can come out of Time Skip mid-attack B. Attacks from a blind spot and C. Shiki will have to recognize that time was erased, by which it's already too late and there's a hole in her chest.
 
It's not actually as unlikely as you make it seem, Giorno was able to react to the time skip donut and before you mention he lost an arm that was on purpose so he could pull off the ant thing

Also they are 20 meters apart that is at the least two time skips he has to do, while blind to reach Shiki without her grabbing or cutting his stand
 
But with speed equalized, are they equalized to Diavolo's Supersonic or Shiki's Supersonic+ to High Hypersonic? Either way, 20 meters is not a distance that can't be covered in a 10 second time skip.

And it seemed more like Giorno taking advantage of the situation than him actually having planned to have lost an arm.
 
Not actually sure, I think it's to the lower speed but I'm not sure

20 meters is actually a distance that can't be covered in a 10 second time skip. That's the entire reason they were able to stay out of his time skips range by being outside of his 10 meter range

I'm pretry sure it was on purpose because later in the arc he reacts to kc and doesn't lose an arm
 
Fair enough. Still, he could just spam Time Skip until he's in range and be exempt from anything Shiki does in the interim.
 
Speaking of Diavolo's blatant "lolnope" exemption from any harm during a Time Skip, would Shiki's precog cut even affect him considering she'd likely do it during one of his time erasures?
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
No, he is not guaranteeing that future. That was already the future that was going to happen. See my reply to king of sunlight above.

Yes, he did. In the default Nasuverse cosmology, there are an infinite amount of futures before they are pruned off. If this guy predicting the future creates a single outcome, then he made it that way. Solomon, Goetia, Merlin, etc. Do not create a single possible future when they observe it, that is just how that guy's precog works. The reason it is different is because the Nasuverse has an infinite amount of possible outcomes, where as Jojo just has a single one. Diavolo observes an already guaranteed future, that is what makes it different. What solidifys this is that MiH's predetermined fate is not created by the reset. The reset just makes everyone aware of what their fate is. One of the major things that Giorno did is that he was able to defy fate, but that is a rare thing, and beyond specific cases like that, there is a single possible outcome from any senerio. That is not Epitaph's doing, that is Araki's doing.
Click to expand...
You are misunderstanding. Whether Diavolo affected the timeline to make it go one way doesn't matter. If we are assuming a JoJo Cosmology because otherwise Epithat can't be a thing, then Diavolo is just twice as screwed. Making sure the possibility happened didn't blind the precog dude, he's got nothing besides being able to look at a possibility and not even the one he wants, seeing that possibility and then having it cut by Shiki IS what blinded him. The way you are wording this is like the precog dude's Mystic Eyes make it so that everything lines up to his favor, but it does nothing like that, it just tells him how to achieve the future he has seen with his own hands. And I am not about to think Epithat doesn't get hurt the moment the future it sees, that is so deterministic, gets cut just because Diavolo had no hand in it. He'll still be seeing it the moment it gets cut and it'll **** him up.
 
Okay, let's put it this way.

If she cuts the future the boss predicts, which we've established she can do with and without previous knowledge, he goes completely blind. Not half blind. The reason Mitsuru lost only one eye is because he only used one eye to see the future. The other eye lead him to follow steps that would bring about the future. Since the boss uses his hair as a place to view the future with both of his eyes, the boss goes completely blind. And unlike in my little story, his stand can't make up for that, since blindness/being crippled transfers to the stand, a la when Polnareff was crippled or when Jotaro had blood splattered in his eyes. So if the boss starts with precog, which he certainly will, even if Shiki does not know of his abilities, he will go completely blind.

As for him starting with time erase, he won't. Whenever he fights, he always starts with precog leading into time erase, not the other way around. The only time he did start with erase was when he was fighting Giorno, which is immensely different from now because A. he had an established level of respect for Gio, B. he knew what the stand arrow could do and wanted to avoid anything occuring like last time, and C. he knew Gio's stand was powerful, he just didn't know how.

Combining all three factors, he knew he would have to use time erase to avoid a SCR situation, and he knew it would also likely reveal Giorno's ability. In this case, Diavolo only used Time Erase before Epitaph because he was pushed into a corner and needed to avoid an unknown ability right the **** now. This doesn't work for this fight because A. Diavolo doesn't know or even respect Shiki, B. He doesn't even know her "stand" or if she even has one, and C. He doesn't know if her "stand" is powerful. In this case scenario, like in the Nero fight, he would default to pulling Epitaph first so that he could see the opponent's next few moves and counter them. And then he loses his eyes.

The only other time when Diavolo used time erase without using Epitaph first was when he couldn't. Specifically, while he was in Mista's body, which didn't have any hair he could use to look into the future.

So tl;dr: Diavolo will start with Epitaph against Shiki which, regardless of her level of knowledge, has him go completely blind. All Shiki needs to do past that is walk up and just flick her sword from 9 meters away, well outside of Diavolo's 2 meter range. Even if she's limited to a knife, he loses out in the range beacuse her knife range is 3 meters.

to quote, stomp-desu
 
It's been established in multiple threads on this site that Epitaph is passive.

If Diavolo was limited to just Epitaph, this would be as you described. But this is where King Crimson comes in.Because Epitaph's predictions are absolute, everything Shiki does will A. be shown to Diavolo and B. become subject to King Crimson's time erasure, resulting in zero effect on Diavolo himself because, to my knowledge, Shiki is lacking in Causality Manipulation.
 
And that means the boss is blinded regardless of what he does, because she's going to start by cutting his prediction. And like I said, the boss waits until he's seen the next 10 seconds with Epitaph before using KC.

stomp-desu, close the thread
 
When has Diavolo ever stood still for 10 seconds observing a prediction in front of an enemy while bloodlusted, please post a scan.
 
He doesn't need to stand still for 10 seconds, that would be nonsensical. He does, however, stand still for a very short amount of time, long enough for others to see.

Even better is that he has to flip his hair in front of his face to look at the prediction.

Also, he's not bloodlusted. Where in the hell did you get that from?

And again, with speed equal and Shiki knowing full well about his abilities, she's going to cut him as the time erase ends. And she only needs one cut to instantly end him. Whether that's on his stand, or his body, doesn't matter.

Her superior range, regardless of which weapon, means he enters her range before she enters his. If he doesn't immediately use time erasure when she enters within 9 meters of him, he is dead. And he will have to do this all while blind.

Close the thread, this is a stomp, it's my bad for making it.
 
"Girl. You will never know the rage I feel now." King Crimson appeared at his side, arms at the ready. He would kill her, then find any fragment of the arrow left behind. It was his only hope to erase his past. "But I will make you know. Slowly. You have taken everything from me." - KnightOfSunlight

Either way, just close it. I've lost all energy for this.
 
The story I've written =/= the situation of the battle

Though, that is my bad for writing it like he was bloodlusted. My apologies.
 
The thing is, either way it would be a stomp.

If Shiki can't cut his predictions, she can't match KC at all, so stomp.

If Shiki can, Diavolo is blind and can't see Shiki, so stomp.
 
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