The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[Arc7Kuroi]

EDIT: The original calc is flawed in another way too though. It assumes Aaroniero went 1.7788 meters to the left - when we know that he travelled to the right instead (which just so happens to be a much, much shorter distance).

EDIT2: Just to note, the calc was also rejected by a second calc group member.

Then why don't we fix the calc...

Because the arguments against Aaroniero dodging the light are very weak. So, if your issue is that it uses the wrong distance for Aaroniero that's an easy fix.

It turns out the distance traveled by Aaroniero would be about a fourth of what US found being that US has him traveling in the wrong direction. Which would yield 0.027c or Sub-Rel.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; no that's not my sole issue. I was just pointing out that it is an additional flaw with the current calc that you've linked.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Damage3245 one of your current issues is "Aaroniero's face being shaded doesn't indicate he's in a shadow" which I've addressed as ridiculous.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; you can consider it ridiculous, but asserting that his face being shaded means he in shadow is like trying to assert that his face being unshaded means that he is in sunlight.

I've pointed out a page from the same chapter that shows his face being shaded and unshaded.

Let me ask you something regarding the feat; in the time it took the rocks to fall as far as they did on that panel, how far would the light have gone into the room? Because it's pretty ridiculous to assume that the photons just waited by the entrance until the rocks were fully cleared.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The panel structure:

Hole forms in wall (which I've demonstrated that the light from the T shaped hole would land where Aaroniero was standing) -> Aaroniero looks at hole (his face is shading in here to indicate that the light had not touched him yet) -> Aaroniero moves out of the way

The "he heard it first" argument doesn't work at all, seeing how he moved after the hole was formed, so even if he did react to the attack and not the hole, he still only moved after the hole formed.

but asserting that his face being shaded means he in shadow is like trying to assert that his face being unshaded means that he is in sunlight.

Aaroniero being weak to light is literally part of the narrative. The reason his face isn't shaded in earlier panels is because there's no light source in the room so Kubo doesn't need to distinguish between dark and light. However, once light enters the room he makes a point to show what is in the shadows vs what is being illuminated. Do you realize how stupid your argument is? Is Kubo supposed to black out every panel in which a character is in a dark room? It's a visual story, like goddamn.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I've pointed out a page from the same chapter that shows his face being shaded and unshaded.

His face is shown shaded in that panel that is in direct reference to the light Kubo is showing that's coming in. Two ways to take it: his face is shadowed or it is illuminated. Going by the narrative and the visuals, I'd reckon he hasn't been hit by light yet. Obviously the only way to now show that Aaroniero is in the darkness is to shade his face.

 

[Duedate8898]

Can we bring it up Quincy Arrows been LS? We have 1 mention in the manga, 2 in the databooks and 1 in the light novels calling them "Arrows of Light" and "Rays of Light" There's also Uryu's feat blitzing the sun rays.

Not sure of those arrows of light things will pass, but if Uryu managed to dodge some rays of lights that could lead credence to the other feat in question.

 

[AppleLord]

@Arc7Kuroi; you can consider it ridiculous, but asserting that his face being shaded means he in shadow is like trying to assert that his face being unshaded means that he is in sunlight.

I've pointed out a page from the same chapter that shows his face being shaded and unshaded.

Let me ask you something regarding the feat; in the time it took the rocks to fall as far as they did on that panel, how far would the light have gone into the room? Because it's pretty ridiculous to assume that the photons just waited by the entrance until the rocks were fully cleared.

That's not really a rebuttal.

1. Rock falls to the ground.
2. Character perceives the surroundings in slow-mo, which is very common in manga and anime.
3. He gets out of the way faster than the light.

 

[AppleLord]

Not sure of those arrows of light things will pass, but if Uryu managed to dodge some rays of lights that could lead credence to the other feat in question.

Uryu fires a "ray of light" Quincy arrow after the sun brings to rise from the clouds and hits the blade of a sword before the sun ray's reflection hit the same blade.

 

[Duedate8898]

Uryu fires a "ray of light" Quincy arrow after the sun brings to rise from the clouds and hits the blade of a sword before the sun ray's reflection hit the same blade.

Maybe just show the scans of the feat, your explanation confuses me a bit.

 

[Damage3245]

Maybe just show the scans of the feat, your explanation confuses me a bit.

The 'feat' is nonsensical. We don't even see where the arrow starts from, so asserting it moves faster than light makes no sense. I can't remember the exact chapter but I'm sure AppleLord will supply it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Can we circle back to Aaroniero, the current justifications for disregarding the calc are quite poor.

"His face isn't in the shadow" I've debunked a couple times already. His face not being darkened out when there was no light source around is not a rebuttal. The reason it's shaded out when the hole appears is to actually distinguish from the new source of light.

 

[Duedate8898]

When looking at your original points I actually have to disagree very much on him dodging the light. Within the manga itself, the moment right before he moves, he looks behind himself as some sound occurs, symbolized as a KRUNK in the English translation. I don't remember too much about sounds being used to symbolize realization in the manga so I think it only fair to assume that the sound that was heard was actually the wall crumbling. And if that is the case, that would mean that some light had to have reached him before he dodged or that light is slower than sound in bleach, and I'm pretty sure no one will try an argue the latter. Also to go against him moving before the light reached him, light would've already have reached him by the time he saw the hole since by the time he actually sees the light would've already have reached his eyes so that he could see

And the anime supports this, since we're clearly shown light on his back before he dodges and moves out of the way.

Looking both to the anime and manga, the breaking of Aaro's disguise isn't a simple poof and it's over thing, it's a process that takes a few seconds. And in the manga, there is a moment right before his disguise starts to break where he is covered in light and is showing no signs of his disguise breaking, which would support the idea that he can take brief exposure to sunlight without issue. Once again, the anime supports this.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

When looking at your original points I actually have to disagree very much on him dodging the light. Within the manga itself, the moment right before he moves, he looks behind himself as some sound occurs, symbolized as a KRUNK in the English translation. I don't remember too much about sounds being used to symbolize realization in the manga so I think it only fair to assume that the sound that was heard was actually the wall crumbling. And if that is the case, that would mean that some light had to have reached him before he dodged or that light is slower than sound in bleach, and I'm pretty sure no one will try an argue the latter. Also to go against him moving before the light reached him, light would've already have reached him by the time he saw the hole since by the time he actually sees the light would've already have reached his eyes so that he could see

Spiritual beings see with more than their eyes. Regardless, the hole is formed and then he dodges. He never has to see light, the fact remains he moves after the hole forms and before the light hits the ground.

And the anime supports this, since we're clearly shown light on his back before he dodges and moves out of the way.

Anime directly contradicts the manga, by showing his face lit up while in the manga his face is shadowed.

it's a process that takes a few seconds

That's an assumption based on nothing.

there is a moment right before his disguise starts to break where he is covered in light and is showing no signs of his disguise breaking,

No we see markings on his face immediately. https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0266-017.png second to bottom lower left panel right side of face as observed by the reader.

 

[Duedate8898]

Spiritual beings seeing with more than their eyes doesn't change the fact that it is clearly communicated to us that Aaroniero both heard and saw the hole appear. That whole seeing with more than their eye things doesn't apply in this instance because the light is composed of reishi not Reiatsu which is what that sixth sense detects. As said here: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0645-009.png
And in the manga, we're only shown a closeup of his eyes which are still in shadow within the anime so I feel it fair to use it as supporting evidence.
And my assumption is actually based on the very page you linked and once again the anime itself. On the right bottom corner of the page, Aaroniero is covered in light but has yet to show any signs of burning. It is only in the next shot where he starts to show the signs of such a thing. And once again, what I'm saying is corroborated by the anime.

 

[AppleLord]

The 'feat' is nonsensical. We don't even see where the arrow starts from, so asserting it moves faster than light makes no sense. I can't remember the exact chapter but I'm sure AppleLord will supply it.

The distance doesn't matter. We are not trying to make a calc. The arrow was fired after the sun rays started to come out from the clouds and arrived before the sun rays reflected in the enemy’s sword. This proves the multiple statements of the Quincy arrows are as fast as they are called ”rays of light” and ”Arrows of Light.”

 

[Duedate8898]

The distance doesn't matter. We are not trying to make a calc. The arrow was fired after the sun rays started to come out from the clouds and arrived before the sun rays reflected in the enemy’s sword. This proves the multiple statements of the Quincy arrows are as fast as they are called ”rays of light” and ”Arrows of Light.”

Okay, where does this happen? It's such an odd and strange-sounding sequence of events.

 

[AppleLord]

Okay, where does this happen? It's such an odd and strange-sounding sequence of events.

In the same chapter. There's also a distance available for anyone who wants to make a calc.

https://***********.com/read-online/Bleach-chapter-672.html

 

[Duedate8898]

I thought this took place around the arrancar arc, anyhow, it's really hard to call that a calcable feat.
While it's clear that light struck the sword after that arrow, we have no real reference for when light came into the room or when the arrow was fired in comparison to one another so I don't really think there's a way to calc it.

Edit: Quantifiable feat is more what I meant.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

it is clearly communicated to us that Aaroniero both heard and saw the hole appear

It is also clearly communicated to us that Aaroniero moved after the hole formed and before the light hit him. Also, no him looking back doesn't inherently mean he saw the hole and thus light reached his eyes. He heard the initial attack, the dust settled, light entered the T shaped hole, Aaroniero moved, light hit the ground.

And in the manga, we're only shown a closeup of his eyes which are still in shadow within the anime so I feel it fair to use it as supporting evidence.

The anime has half of his face bathed in sunlight, it directly contradicts the manga.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

On the right bottom corner of the page, Aaroniero is covered in light but has yet to show any signs of burning

We can't even make out his face in that shot... like it actually doesn't show his face, the first time we see his face after it's hit by sunlight it's got markings on it.

 

[Duedate8898]

It is also clearly communicated to us that Aaroniero moved after the hole formed.

Yeah, I don't think that was ever up for debate.

The anime has half of his face bathed in sunlight, it directly contradicts the manga.

And once again, we're only shown a closeup of his eye before he moves in the manga, the rest of his face is not shown. And what we see in the anime still has that same eye obscured in shadow.

We can't even make out his face in that shot... like it actually doesn't show his face, the first time we see his face after it's hit by sunlight it's got markings on it.

Yes, the next time we see his face up close he's showing signs of his cover wearing off, however that does not negate the fact that in the previous panel before that one he shows no sign of burning while being fully illuminated.

 

[Damage3245]

I think that Duedate8898 makes some good points.

 

[AppleLord]

I thought this took place around the arrancar arc, anyhow, it's really hard to call that a calcable feat.
While it's clear that light struck the sword after that arrow, we have no real reference for when light came into the room or when the arrow was fired in comparison to one another so I don't really think there's a way to calc it.

Edit: Quantifiable feat is more what I meant.

The reference from when light came into the room is the sun in the panel above. But as I said we don't need to calc it.

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; you do need to calc it if you want to assert that it is as fast as light, or faster than light.

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord; you do need to calc it if you want to assert that it is as fast as light, or faster than light.

We already saw the arrow blitz light on panel, a feat to back up all the statements. No one can dispute that the arrow blitzed the sun rays.

 

[Damage3245]

We already saw the arrow blitz light on panel, a feat to back up all the statements. No one can dispute that the arrow blitzed the sun rays.

That's not a feat. I am disputing it.

If you want to prove that the arrow is faster than "sun rays" then calc it.

 

[AppleLord]

That's not a feat. I am disputing it.

If you want to prove that the arrow is faster than "sun rays" then calc it.

Feat happens on panel. Damage doesn't like it, so he says is no a feat. His friends are coming soon to give him like. Shrunk.

PS

You can't dispute a feat without actually disputing it. You have to downplay it... I mean debunk it.

 

[AppleLord]

That's not a feat. I am disputing it.

If you want to prove that the arrow is faster than "sun rays" then calc it.

Jokes aside. Answer me.

1. Was the arrow shot after the sun began to come out?

2. Did the arrow hit the sword before the sun rays?

Is simple.

 

[Damage3245]

All I have left to say on that topic is:

If you want to prove that the arrow is faster than "sun rays" then calc it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah, I don't think that was ever up for debate.

Which would mean he dodged light.

And once again, we're only shown a closeup of his eye before he moves in the manga, the rest of his face is not shown. And what we see in the anime still has that same eye obscured in shadow.

We see more than just his eyes in the manga to get picky about it. Regardless, the anime has sun hit his eyes, the manga does not.

Yes, the next time we see his face up close he's showing signs of his cover wearing off, however that does not negate the fact that in the previous panel before that one he shows no sign of burning while being fully illuminated.

The panel before it we literally cannot tell if he's being affected or not because it doesn't give us a clear shot of his face.

 

[AppleLord]

All I have left to say on that topic is:

”That’s not a feat” isn't a dispute. You gave no reason whatsoever.

 

[Tyri456]

this is the colored version by the way.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think the Aaroniero discussion has derailed a bit from the original feat.

Going by the panels we see a hole form in which light enters, Kubo then in the next panel shades in Aaroniero's face to indicate light has not touched him yet, then Aaroniero dodges before light hits him seeing how in the panel that he moves the floor is still blackened, and only after he dodges are we shown that light has reached the ground. Rukia even comments that it's "weird" that he would be so adamant about moving away, Aaroniero's narrative involves avoiding light, implying that yes he avoided the light, after all Rukia could only get the light to hit him by immobilizing him.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Looks like shadow to me.

Also what is this ridiculous argument that people can’t see rays of light before it hits them. This is fiction where lasers (light speed) can be perceived and dodged even though it’s coming right at you and people can hear sound through space instantly despite being galaxies away. Suspend your disbelief for a second or remove any and all notions of SoL feats and up since those are impossible according to the reality you want to appeal to.

 

[Damage3245]

Let me ask you something regarding the feat; in the time it took the rocks to fall as far as they did on that panel, how far would the light have gone into the room? Because it's pretty ridiculous to assume that the photons just waited by the entrance until the rocks were fully cleared.

I don't think anybody answered this question of mine that I posted earlier.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't think anybody answered this question of mine that I posted earlier.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by that more? Nvm I believe I understand your question.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Let me ask you something regarding the feat; in the time it took the rocks to fall as far as they did on that panel, how far would the light have gone into the room? Because it's pretty ridiculous to assume that the photons just waited by the entrance until the rocks were fully cleared.

Keep in mind that the T shaped hole was formed by the rocks blown away by the blast. Not all the rocks simply fell, because Rukia blasted open the hole with a "beam-like" attack.

So, the T-shaped hole wasn't formed by rocks falling it was formed by Rukia destroying the wall. Meaning, if I'm understanding you correctly, that is a non-issue as the entire hole wasn't formed by rocks falling.

BUT, either way, Aaroniero doesn't move until AFTER the hole forms. Your question has a flow of events like this: rocks falling -> Aaroniero moves before hole is formed so light doesn't hit him -> hole forms. However, what happens is this: hole forms letting light in directed at Aaroniero -> Aaroniero moves.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; that makes it even worse.

There is evidently a timeframe between the hole being created between the third panel of this page, and Aaronario moving which takes place on the third panel of this page. A self-evident timeframe seeing as Aaronerio speaks arrogantly to Rukia, hears the sound of crumbling rubble behind him, notices the danger, and then moves.

Once the hole is created on the first page - light would have been streaming into the room immediately. Light is not slow enough that Aaronerio would be able to speak to Rukia, hear the sound of rubble falling behind him, and then turn to see the danger.

From this there's two possible scenarios; either the light hits him and he moves out of the way before his disguise is undone, or the light let into the room hasn't hit him yet since the rubble is in the process of falling and widening the hole (letting more light in), so Aaronerio moves out of the way before the hole is fully formed.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Once the hole is created on the first page - light would have been streaming into the room immediately. Light is not slow enough that Aaronerio would be able to speak to Rukia, hear the sound of rubble falling behind him, and then turn to see the danger.

Naw the dust hadn't settled yet. He doesn't take a notice until after the dust settled.