The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[Rocker1189]

I'm not talking about the wiki standards. I'm talking about what the normal human being with half a brain would assume if someone said "x is made of light"

Only if you are someone who doesnt care to actually delve into what it means. In fiction a lot of things are "made of light", that rarely makes them light speed. So actually if you had "half a brain" as you put it, you would not assume that.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Lol, then that would be a fake kubo unless kubo goes on TV and say that. While stating that he is doing specially so that damage and mods agree that Bleach is not subsonic. There is no proof.

 

[KingTempest]

You know the average normal person would assume that when something is made of light it moves at light speed. So to answer your question, this universe lol.

Half of things in fiction are stated to be made out of light and aren't lightspeed. Negacion is light and isn't lightspeed. "Average person" ≠ correct.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I have no stakes in this revision one way or another, but I just want to point out that we have a pretty comparable example to this in Naruto with 4th Raikage Ay.
He clads himself in Lightning, and we have a few examples of multiple people dodging him at point blank range. Why is this relevant? Well, said calcs were previously rejected because we lacked any proof or direct statements that indicated he is as fast as Lightning. It didn't matter that he scales to characters who have faster than lightning calcs (such as Kakashi) because we NEEDED to prove that his official, in-universe, speed is actually lightning fast.

Rocker is trying to say that having a calc at that level or above doesn't actually mean it can be used for other calcs or as conclusive proof that a character is necessarily intended to be that fast by the author. If there's direct statements or feats in the story that prove it, then it's a different story of course.
To harken back to the Raikage example, a recent novel actually stated that he moves at the speed of lightning, which was NOT confirmed before, so now we can use that in calculations for example.

Again, I have no stakes in this, and I likely won't comment again, but just wanted to expand on what Rocker said.

Right, and in universe SS Arc Lieutenant level fighters can react to light. Kubo calls the Negacion light, thus he believes it moves at light speed (not how the wiki treats it but as Rocker said we don't care about wiki to verse right now). So in verse, Kubo has his SS Arc Lieutenant+ characters comparable to light. Do I need to say more or are we still going to argue that people think Yoruichi isn't faster than lightning.

 

[00potato]

Only if you are someone who doesnt care to actually delve into what it means. In fiction a lot of things are "made of light", that rarely makes them light speed. So actually if you had "half a brain" as you put it, you would not assume that.

The base assumption would be light speed though. You would need to disprove that it is since being light would suggest light speed in itself. If it is contradicted fine but that is up to you to point out.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Half of things in fiction are stated to be made out of light and aren't lightspeed. Negacion is light and isn't lightspeed. "Average person" ≠ correct.

Negacion isn't light speed by this wiki's standards. Kubo doesn't abide by this wiki's standards, to Kubo the Negacion is likely light speed.

 

[Purgy]

@KingTempest Probably not a wise idea to jump into an argument that you don't even understand, Arc7Kuroi is speaking from how it would be in verse, not how this wiki treats it.

 

[Jvando]

I’m going to shoot you with a bullet. Since I didn't said the bullet moves at bullet speed. You can easily dodge it. Come on. Let's try it. ;-;

Ok now make a bullet made out of light and put it in the chamber and pull the trigger, how fast is it going now?

 

[Rocker1189]

Right, and in universe SS Arc Lieutenant level fighters can react to light. Kubo calls the Negacion light, thus he believes it moves at light speed (not how the wiki treats it but as Rocker said we don't care about wiki to verse right now). So in verse, Kubo has his SS Arc Lieutenant+ characters comparable to light. Do I need to say more or are we still going to argue that people think Yoruichi isn't faster than lightning.

This has already been explained above by me and KingTempest. And I dont think you understand what I mean by wiki standards and also simple use of logic. In this statement you are talking for Kubo. He calls it light, he never says it is lightspeed, that is your assertation.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

But then whose logic is most logical ? According to damage there are many logics and only the MOST logical can be accepted.

So we have all these logics now who decides which one is most logical ?

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Logically Kubo makes manga for average people. Who are not even power scalers so logically when he says light it would be lightspeed. Since that is how a avg person would perceive it. Unless you have a better logic ?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This has already been explained above by me and KingTempest. And I dont think you understand what I mean by wiki standards and also simple use of logic.

Right because the base assumption (disregarding wiki standards) when something is stated to be light, is obviously not that it's light speed. I'm not going to continue the debate on if Negacion is light speed or not, because I don't care. The point is Kubo likely thinks it is, because he called it light, and the base assumption is that light moves at light speed.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Gonna leave the rest to yall cus in my eyes there really is no point to the CTR beyond following the rules to make them for change given the mods are already decided and by the wiki standarts mod hold all the decision power no matter what normal uses say or if they bring proff of the contrary I wish u good luck.

 

[Rocker1189]

Right because the base assumption (disregarding wiki standards) when something is stated to be light, is obviously not that it's light speed. I'm not going to continue the debate on if Negacion is light speed or not, because I don't care. The point is Kubo likely thinks it is, because he called it light, and the base assumption is that light moves at light speed.

Well yeah quite obviously actually. If it is a beam/laser. The I can understand that assumption quite easily. If it is spiritual ability that creates some weird barrier then no not really. I dont care either you brought it up not me. No there is no "Kubo likely thinks", that is something you made up yourself and something you have been doing a lot on this thread (stating random things as some kind of fact).

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

f it is a beam/

You realize the databooks call it a "beam of light"

It's called a ******* beam of light man can you at least be knowledgeable of Bleach before you come in here and waste people's time.

 

[AppleLord]

...

I need input on this.

Tokinada (captain level fighter) deflects a lightning strike from a background fodder ninja that is not even regarded strong enough for lieutenant class. We don't even have a name for him.

Tokinada has been in the story since before Tousen joined the Gotei 13 or the protagonist was born

Tokinada is a lazy aristocrat that wants to govern the world as God.

People say in this thread that one else scales to this lightning feat.

So Tokinada could have at any moment in the story taken over Soul Society by blitzing everyone and killing them after destroying their shinigami powers like Byakuya did to Ichigo? Or Uryu did here?

Context don't add up.

 

[KingTempest]

@KingTempest Probably not a wise idea to jump into an argument that you don't even understand, Arc7Kuroi is speaking from how it would be in verse, not how this wiki treats it.

Real quick can you sum me up on the thread? 10 pages is a lot.

Negacion isn't light speed by this wiki's standards. Kubo doesn't abide by this wiki's standards, to Kubo the Negacion is likely light speed.

Negacion is called spiritual light (just stating what it's being called). Light in the real world is lightspeed based on properties of light, how photons always move at lightspeed, retract off of reflective surfaces, and so on.
From what I've noticed on the fandom, they have a good amount of real world requirements for lightspeed.
It's because if a verse takes out certain properties of light to fit its own standards, then it's unwise to only keep only the lightspeed property for personal reasons unless it's specifically stated to be called lightspeed.

 

[Jvando]

It really just seems that damage and his friends are hellbend on downgrade so there is not even a point in arguing, no matter if we bring kubo and make him say they are lightning or LS they would still say no.

So what is the point of a CTR when the mods are already decided on a downgrade and wont take a counter or anything?

Let me make something abundant clear.

I do not care wether any verse other than Naruto, FT, and OP get an upgrade or downgrade. Every other verse I either don’t know much about or I could care less about.

I’m not here to “downgrade” bleach because quite frankly, I could care less if bleach was MFTL+, Subsonic, or anything in between. What I do care about is giving my opinion on what I believe is accurate because damage asked me to and I have a fair enough knowledge on Bleach to comment.

If you feel like we’re all just here to “downgrade” Bleach and not offer a different perspective, then you miss the entire point of this wiki.

If you think we’re unfair, please, get more mods who you think are fair to come and join the discussion but I can guarantee either one of two things will happen:
1) They’ll ignore you because no one wants to deal with HST
OR
2) They’ll more than likely agree with me and Damage.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

So we have Statement from Yama (or kubo trying to state that negacion is light.) And then a databook statement. Since we can't use calcs from wiki to debunk this. We go by logic and accept that. Finally we have LS for Bleach.

 

[Rocker1189]

You realize the databooks call it a "beam of light"

It's called a ******* beam of light man can you at least be knowledgeable of Bleach before you come in here and waste people's time.

I like the way you cut out "laser"(and the rest of my comment) cause that is clearly the type of beam I am talking about. Way to be dishonest.

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; that's not a serious argument unless by the same token you're also advocating that everybody in the Soul Society arc is also FTL? Because by your own logic he would blitz everyone.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Negacion is called spiritual light (just stating what it's being called). Light in the real world is lightspeed based on properties of light, how photons always move at lightspeed, retract off of reflective surfaces, and so on.
From what I've noticed on the fandom, they have a good amount of real world requirements for lightspeed.
It's because if a verse takes out certain properties of light to fit its own standards, then it's unwise to only keep only the lightspeed property for personal reasons unless it's specifically stated to be called lightspeed.

Ceros are called spiritual light, Negacion is called a beam of light in the databooks. Negacion is shown once in which it travels in a straight line like light, then within the light there's this safe space to rescue those inside.

 

[AppleLord]

Real quick can you sum me up on the thread? 10 pages is a lot.

Negacion is called spiritual light (just stating what it's being called). Light in the real world is lightspeed based on properties of light, how photons always move at lightspeed, retract off of reflective surfaces, and so on.
From what I've noticed on the fandom, they have a good amount of real world requirements for lightspeed.
It's because if a verse takes out certain properties of light to fit its own standards, then it's unwise to only keep only the lightspeed property for personal reasons unless it's specifically stated to be called lightspeed.

The real world or our world in Bleachuniverse is an artificial one. The magic light was part of the original nature of the world before the Soul King created the verse.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Btw Physical world and Spiritual world are both divided from the same source. They are supposed to be parallel in all aspect.

Since Light would travel at LS in physical world then wouldn't it be same for spiritual light ?

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord; that's not a serious argument unless by the same token you're also advocating that everybody in the Soul Society arc is also FTL? Because by your own logic he would blitz everyone.

Are you willing to contradict the story to downgrade the verse? Is up to you.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I like the way you cut out "laser" cause that is clearly the type of beam I am talking about. Way to be dishonest.

I dislike the way you present shit as fact without actually knowing what shit in Bleach is. Lasers are beams of light.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Btw Physical world and Spiritual world are both divided from the same source. They are supposed to be parallel in all aspect.

Since Light would travel at LS in physical world then wouldn't it be same for spiritual light ?

Yeah the physical and spiritual world derive from the same source, so yes there's no reason to assume "spiritual" stuff differs in property from "living" stuff.

 

[Rocker1189]

I dislike the way you present shit as fact without actually knowing what shit in Bleach is. Lasers are beams of light.

Yeah I definitely dont know about Bleach, ya got me. And if anyone is stating any random headcanon as fact it is you.

 

[Purgy]

This thread is

 

[USklaverei]

Okay, so why don't we use Ichigo's quote to press Byakuya with lightning speed?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yeah I definitely dont know about Bleach, ya got me. And if anyone is stating any random headcanon as fact it is you.

Ah yes, the databook calls the Negacion a "beam of light" forgive my headcanon that the Negacion is indeed a "beam of light"

 

[Damage3245]

Guys - Negacion has already been discussed to death and rejected in the past. Let's leave that whole thing for another CRT in the future if we must and get back on topic.

 

[KingTempest]

Ceros are called spiritual light, Negacion is called a beam of light in the databooks. Negacion is shown once in which it travels in a straight line like light, then within the light there's this safe space to rescue those inside.

Cero is a whole ball of whack. Cero has a variant which moves 20x faster, even though light is supposed to be a constant speed (speed of light). Negacion bends here at the bottom so idk about that one.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Guys - Negacion has already been discussed to death and rejected in the past. Let's leave that whole thing for another CRT in the future if we must and get back on topic.

I'm not debating if we should treat Negacion as lightspeed on this site, I'm saying Kubo likely thinks it is, I don't care what this wiki has it at.

 

[Rocker1189]

Ah yes, the databook calls the Negacion a "beam of light" forgive my headcanon that the Negacion is indeed a "beam of light"

I am not just talking about negacion I am talking about all your other statements. Now I am not going to continue on about this. You can believe I dont know anything about Bleach and that is fine.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Cero is a whole ball of whack. Cero has a variant which moves 20x faster, even though light is supposed to be a constant speed (speed of light). Negacion bends here at the bottom so idk about that one.

Bala isn't a Cero, and fiction can go faster than light. The Menos is changing the shape of the slit that the Negacion is exiting so of course the path is going to alter.

 

[KingTempest]

The real world or our world in Bleachuniverse is an artificial one. The magic light was part of the original nature of the world before the Soul King created the verse.

That explains it, thank you

 

[CloudStrife00T]

True. I highly doubt anyone is serious about cero and negacion being LS.

Our argument was debunked based on that Author might think differently.
So we are saying if we are going to accept what author thinks then these things should be light speed.

 

[AKM sama]

Guys - Negacion has already been discussed to death and rejected in the past. Let's leave that whole thing for another CRT in the future if we must and get back on topic.

If this has been discussed and rejected, I don't see why this is being discussed again if there is no new info about it.

Anyway, why is this thread so long? What is going on? Is the stuff in the OP not resolved yet?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I am not just talking about negacion I am talking about all your other statements. Now I am not going to continue on about this. You can believe I dont know anything about Bleach and that is fine.

Awesome so you concede to the Negacion argument. I agree there's no need for us to talk anymore.