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Hisagi dodging light. ;-;
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The Big Bleach Speed CRT
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
- Status
- 885
- 902
Why is the other assumption more logical?
Just as one can assume:
They saw ranged attacks weren't effective, it's most logical to assume they would try physical attacks next.
One can also assume:
The first ranged attack wasn’t effective because he was able to react to it. It’s logical to assume they tried a faster ranged attack, one that moved at lighting speed.
What makes one interpretation better than the other? The fact that one believe it to be so?
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
Which attack was faster than a lightning based kido ?
The would scale to lightning feat that they already have.
Yours is assuming that there is a faster than lightning ranged attack. Which has zero base for assumption. Other than lightning there are some light based kido. So are you saying that Corps have light speed via attack ?
The would scale to lightning feat that they already have.
Yours is assuming that there is a faster than lightning ranged attack. Which has zero base for assumption. Other than lightning there are some light based kido. So are you saying that Corps have light speed via attack ?
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Not what that inherently means.
Tokinada is able to casually react to lightning, so what Apple is saying is, if the vast majority in Soul Society Arc wasn't capable of reaching lightning speeds then Tokinada could have blitzed everyone and ended the story before it started.
The second one falls apart when Tokinada is comparable to Yoruichi and it's common knowledge Yoruichi is much faster than lightning. So why would they assume a character who can keep pace with the FLASH MASTER would fail to keep up with lightning. The first assumption is more probable. Also we don't know that the lightning strike was faster than the fireballs, so you're using even more assumptions by saying the lightning attack is faster than the fireballs.
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- Thread starter
- #885
> Tokinada is able to casually react to lightning, so what Apple is saying is, if the vast majority in Soul Society Arc wasn't capable of reaching lightning speeds then Tokinada could have blitzed everyone and ended the story before it started.
To be fair that same quote states that it is possible that he wasn't reacting to the speed of lightning.
To be fair that same quote states that it is possible that he wasn't reacting to the speed of lightning.
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To be fair Tokinada already massively outscales lightning, so let's be honest, do you think Tokinada can only react to lightning via aim dodging?
I actually find this hilarious as I definitely called you using aim dodging like it's actually valid. I was walking back from the PO box, saw the quote, and immediately my mind went to "damage is going to bring up aim dodging/predicting the attack" lol. I want to say I debunked aim dodging as a valid argument in my initial post too.
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I'd like a piece of evidence for this common knowledge.
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She's the prior head of the 2nd Division with the title Flash Master. She was praised for her speed in a division known for their speed. She casually outpaces Byakuya who can react to Ichigo's Bankai. She blitzes and makes a fool out of Yammy, in a similar fashion to an Ichigo who at his best (when he blitzed Yammy) Ulquiorra said he had higher reiatsu than himself. She fights openly clad in lightning, I don't see how it wouldn't be common knowledge.
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That the character in question is a lazy aristocrat that wants to take over the world without even getting his hands dirty.
”Aim dodging” while laughing casually. Tokinada at least put on a face that shows you are worried and had no choice but to aim dodge sweating at the last second.
Could the Assasins be using Hadō #63. Raikōhō (雷吼炮, Thunder Roar Sear; Viz "Fiery Lightning Howl") is a Kidō spell?
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Nothing you said in this makes her faster than lightning
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She scales to FTL, my guy her presence wasn't a secret in the TYBW.
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You serious?
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
When FTL characters are being said to slower than lightning
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I dont think either you or Apple understand how this works. Scaling is scaling when people get higher rates of speed or anything like that via calcs and scaling that is just for the wiki. She scales to FTL based on some calcs but that means nothing to her being FTL in the verse. You said it is common knowledge that she is faster than lightning I would think that you mean she has a statement or an actual showing of being faster than lightning. At the end of the day the wiki scales are always subject to change regardless of verse and character.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
Make this easier for me. You are saying she can scale to FTL characters and be FTL but in verse she will be slower than lightning ?
Say it in a short sentence.
Say it in a short sentence.
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Guy just said lightning fodder praise her speed. Yoruichi clad herself in lightning to fight. But that doesn't prove she is lightning fast.
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The assassin's obviously know how fast lightning is since they attack with it.
Yoruichi moves at a speed faster than lightning. She wasn't a secret presence in TYBW like Ichigo's true power. People who know how fast lightning is see her moving, much much faster.
So I don't know what you're getting at, she displays faster than lightning movement for all to see in the TYBW.
Also, your argument right now is predicated on them trying lightning because lightning is faster than fireball, which doesn't have to be the case. For example Bazz-B is faster than lightning so his fire too is faster than lightning. Fire attacks aren't inherently slower than lightning attacks.
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Killua does the same thing, that doesn’t automatically make him lighting speed. No one on the wiki is lighting speed simply based off of being clad in lighting.Guy just said lightning fodder praise her speed. Yoruichi clad herself in lightning to fight. But that doesn't prove she is lightning fast.
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- Thread starter
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> Also, your argument right now is predicated on them trying lightning because lightning is faster than fireball, which doesn't have to be the case. For example Bazz-B is faster than lightning so his fire too is faster than lightning. Fire attacks aren't inherently slower than lightning attacks.
Why did the narration make a deal out of Tokinada possibly reacting to speed of lightning (being a testatement to his battle prowess) if he had already reacted to something faster earlier?
Why did the narration make a deal out of Tokinada possibly reacting to speed of lightning (being a testatement to his battle prowess) if he had already reacted to something faster earlier?
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
You are basically shooting all points down.
Feat - No.
Statement - No.
Calc. - No.
Databooks - No.
Is there anyway left to prove anything ?
Feat - No.
Statement - No.
Calc. - No.
Databooks - No.
Is there anyway left to prove anything ?
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Well the assassin's would, since they're directly stated to be lightning speed, using lightning to amp their strikes. So uh Bleach built different.
Wait wait wait wait wait, you're deadass about arguing lightning speed Tokinada? The same Tokinada who scales to Yoruichi, the same Yoruichi who scales to FTL... you bein serious rn? I said lightning doesn't have to be faster than fireball, not that fireball has to be faster than lightning.
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This is true for Bazz-B because he currently scales far above lighting speed and as such, we would grant that his fire attacks are faster.
Why would this apply to “fodder characters” who have no feats to scale to? There’s no reason to automatically assume their fire attack would travel at the same speed as their lighting attacks.
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Use your brain for 1 millisecond:
You calc a character based on feat X to be 220.456 c.
Do you think the author knows the character is this speed?
The answer is no. Maybe the author thinks they are FTL maybe not. But regardless unless they gave a number for their character's speed they likely doo not know how fast the character is. What does this meann for a verse. We calc a verse to said number above and put it on the character profile. This means **** all for a character's speed in universe. A character's speed at the end of the day is always up to the author. The wiki doesnt somehow have some universal effect on a writer.
Now lets use this for bleach. We used a bunch of wiki standards and regulation regardless for how correct or incorrect you think that is. We use it for a character to determine they are FTL (with no FTL statement btw) based on a random feat.
Yet there is also no statement that they are faster than lightning in verse. This means that you can not use a wiki calc to prove an argument on a verse. You cant say we calc this person to FTL so in verse they are faster than lightning unless they are actually stated as FTL.
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- Thread starter
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@Arc7; Post-Timeskip ratings and justifications will be up for revision once the Pre-Timeskip revisions have concluded.
As Rocker said, ratings are subject to change for all profiles on VS Battles.
As Rocker said, ratings are subject to change for all profiles on VS Battles.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
That road goes two ways. If you say what wiki does couldn't be used for the Verse then what the verse says couldn't be used for the wiki.
Basically all speed based statement will become null and void because author doesn't know what he is talking about.
So **** the verse and wiki is right ?
Even if you want best of the both world. Author statement counts and wiki's calc also count.
Just wiki calc couldn't be applied to verse but other way around is true.
then we get fodders that are lightning timers.
Vice captains who are above them.
and finally captain who are above them.
So Yoruichi would be far above lightning based on that.
Basically all speed based statement will become null and void because author doesn't know what he is talking about.
So **** the verse and wiki is right ?
Even if you want best of the both world. Author statement counts and wiki's calc also count.
Just wiki calc couldn't be applied to verse but other way around is true.
then we get fodders that are lightning timers.
Vice captains who are above them.
and finally captain who are above them.
So Yoruichi would be far above lightning based on that.
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I understand that part.
Yoruichi > LS
Candice is the only character that has lightning clad and can transform into lighting itself to move.
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Not what I was saying. I was using that example to debunk your "lightning has to be faster than fireball" we have no idea how fast the fireball was.
If we are going by what the author believes, he had Yamamoto call the Negacion "light" and Kubo had Hisagi dodge it, so Kubo likely believes his characters early on to be comparable to light (in reference to Lieutenant+ level fighters). So going by your janky author intent argument, Lieutenant+ level fights are likely commonly known to be comparable to light speed in verse.
Right I don't care, the current discussion is on applying lightning speed assassins to Pre-Timeskip. My comment on Bazz was nothing more than an example to debunk Jvando.
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You know the average normal person would assume that when something is made of light it moves at light speed. So to answer your question, this universe lol.
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Zanpakutou speed isn't the same as a Shinigami. Didn't Gin said is Zanpakutout was the fastest and databook says his speed is up to x2 what he told Ichigo? It was also stated that a zapakakutou can't have different powers.
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What you put on the wiki is never used to prove something in the verse. You dont put in gravity manipulation in a character profile and then say "well it is on his profile so even if he hasnt show it he should have it" (as an example).
We go verse to wiki, not wiki to verse.
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No, not you dont. We did not do that for Black Clover(until it had a speed of light statement) and we dont do that for any verse. So to answer the question no universe. Candice's lightning iirc has firm lightning speed statments though.
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CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
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We get fodders that are lightning timers.
Vice captains who are above them.
and finally captain who are above them.
So Yoruichi would be far above lightning based on that.
Vice captains who are above them.
and finally captain who are above them.
So Yoruichi would be far above lightning based on that.
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- Thread starter
- #915
@CloudStrife; we don't have any lightning timer fodders yet.
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Calling something light has never been an indication of light speed. So no.
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I'm not talking about the wiki standards. I'm talking about what the normal human being with half a brain would assume if someone said "x is made of light"
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I’m going to shoot you with a bullet. Since I didn't said the bullet moves at bullet speed. You can easily dodge it. Come on. Let's try it. ;-;
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It really just seems that damage and his friends are hellbend on downgrade so there is not even a point in arguing, no matter if we bring kubo and make him say they are lightning or LS they would still say no.
So what is the point of a CTR when the mods are already decided on a downgrade and wont take a counter or anything?
So what is the point of a CTR when the mods are already decided on a downgrade and wont take a counter or anything?
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I have no stakes in this revision one way or another, but I just want to point out that we have a pretty comparable example to this in Naruto with 4th Raikage Ay.
He clads himself in Lightning, and we have a few examples of multiple people dodging him at point blank range. Why is this relevant? Well, said calcs were previously rejected because we lacked any proof or direct statements that indicated he is as fast as Lightning. It didn't matter that he scales to characters who have faster than lightning calcs (such as Kakashi) because we NEEDED to prove that his official, in-universe, speed is actually lightning fast.
Rocker is trying to say that having a calc at that level or above doesn't actually mean it can be used for other calcs or as conclusive proof that a character is necessarily intended to be that fast by the author. If there's direct statements or feats in the story that prove it, then it's a different story of course.
To harken back to the Raikage example, a recent novel actually stated that he moves at the speed of lightning, which was NOT confirmed before, so now we can use that in calculations for example.
Again, I have no stakes in this, and I likely won't comment again, but just wanted to expand on what Rocker said.
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