The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Obviously there are characters that would scale above him or are you assuming Zangetsu is below him speed?

?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Also someone asked if I found any other interesting tidbits in CFYOW II, sadly I haven't had time to read the whole thing yet, but it's a thicc boi so might be a bit for me lol.

Regarding the lightning speed novel statement:

• Makes no sense to assume it was a ranged attack after the author rams it down our throat that everyone just witnessed a ranged attack ineffective, and from that one attack we have Tokinada's ability deduced, and apparently his ability was already known. So common sense tells you the mans likely attacked with a physical lightning strike, which was stated to be lightning speed.
• It actually makes no sense that fodder level to surpass Captains of any arc, especially considering they didn't have Zanpakuto until very recently.
• Regarding the fodder training, it was already shown that Soifon gives no *****, she really only cares for Yoruichi cuz she has a hard on for her. So assuming these fodder were able to reach levels of speed casually that far outspeed Captains is wack.
• All assassins are taught the same techniques and there's no reason to distinguish them, hell we generalize Orihime's explosion calc to all 4th seats, because they're indistinguishable. Doing that for the Onmitsukido tho is spooky because it makes Bleach fast.
• I don't really have the drive or care to argue against staff when most of the regular people here (excluding Duedate don't worry my guy I wont include you like last time ) agree with me. I don't use this site for scaling anyhow, so I see no use in expending energy arguing for 8 pages anymore lol.

Regarding the Uryu calc, if we have an instant where Uryu can't perceive someone then they'd be able to scale to that so it might be useful.

Regarding the Ichigo calc, I'd be curious to see if using our hyper-limited speed feats for Bleach if Ichigo approaches what the calc gets anyhow. <-If we are that sparse on acceptable speed feats, why not go with it, if staff support it.

 

[AppleLord]

You're right. The feat isn't enough for them to be lightning speed, when looked at in context.

Tokinada deflects lightning.

Tokinada has been in SS since before Tousen joined the Gotei 13.

Tokinada is a lazy dude.

No one else scales to this lightning feat?

So Tokinada could have at any moment taken over Soul Society with speed alone?

Context don't add up.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

One last thing about the Uryu calc:

For normal people faster than the eye is 34.3m/s and normal people can move at like 5m/s, so we might be able to say perception is 34.3/5 times faster than movement speed and use that to find Uryu's speed. I don't know how fair that seems to people but it would give us another speed feat to lean on, since Uryu is kind of fodder until the TYBW.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I personally think these efforts are pointless lol.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Well when the staff is out to downgrade the verse with a "No matter what" determination. This does look pointless.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

One last thing about the Uryu calc:

For normal people faster than the eye is 34.3m/s and normal people can move at like 5m/s, so we might be able to say perception is 34.3/5 times faster than movement speed and use that to find Uryu's speed. I don't know how fair that seems to people but it would give us another speed feat to lean on, since Uryu is kind of fodder until the TYBW.

I lied, second last thing about Uryu calc:

I don't see why Uryu would be able to perceive things faster than Ichigo, when Ichigo is portrayed as the fastest of the core group (Ichigo, Uryu, Chad, and Orihime), and being that SE Ulq blitzed Ichigo's perception we could probably put SE Ulq at that sub-rel speed from Uryu's calc. Then we could put FH Ichigo at twice that with a full shihakusho at least. Aizen would upscale, then so would striped Hollow Mask Ichigo, which fits with the Gin calc funny enough.

 

[Tyri456]

this calc, Damage you removed it because Ulquiorra was relativistic, therefore too fast, for the assumptions. Now he is mhs. So there should be no problem since he wasn't even serious.
Why it can't be used?

 

[Damage3245]

this calc, Damage you removed it because Ulquiorra was relativistic, therefore too fast, for the assumptions. Now he is mhs. So there should be no problem since he wasn't even serious.
Why it can't be used?

It's extremely contradictory - why would a Sub-Relativistic Ichigo be blitzed by a Massively Hypersonic character? And this same Sub-Relativistic Ichigo has ordinary human level reaction speeds?

 

[00potato]

Wouldn’t that just upgrade the hypersonic character to sub-rel?

 

[CloudStrife00T]

How is ulq massively hypersonic ? is there a calc. or statement that puts him at MHS ? or does he just upscales to some character.
If he just upscales then that means that upscaling is incorrect since we have the feat of Blitzing a sub rel character.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It's extremely contradictory - why would a Sub-Relativistic Ichigo be blitzed by a Massively Hypersonic character? And this same Sub-Relativistic Ichigo has ordinary human level reaction speeds?

Lol Ulq would just upscale, you act like Ulq being MHS is law or sumn.

 

[Tyri456]

It's extremely contradictory - why would a Sub-Relativistic Ichigo be blitzed by a Massively Hypersonic character? And this same Sub-Relativistic Ichigo has ordinary human level reaction speeds?

Neither of them was serious though. Only the attack fired from Ichigo was. Because via Instict.
The result using low-end assumptions would scale to their full power in that form at least.

 

[Jvando]

I don’t think you’re understanding what damage is getting at. The calc had a major flaw in its assumption of Human reactions for Ichigo only to then get Sub-Rel reactions. Even if you grant that

“Ichigo of course has higher reactions and this calc is only using a low end”

The issue would still persist. Even if you used lighting speed as Ichigo’s reaction for the first part of the calc, you would still end up getting a value over 100x his initial reactions. Unless you want to assume Ichigo suddenly became over 100x faster in a split second, the calc has glaring issues.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don’t think you’re understanding what damage is getting at. The calc had a major flaw in its assumption of Human reactions for Ichigo only to then get Sub-Rel reactions. Even if you grant that

“Ichigo of course has higher reactions and this calc is only using a low end”

The issue would still persist. Even if you used lighting speed as Ichigo’s reaction for the first part of the calc, you would still end up getting a value over 100x his initial reactions. Unless you want to assume Ichigo suddenly became over 100x faster in a split second, the calc has glaring issues.

I don't think you understand the calc. The calc is for the speed of Getsuga Tenshou he fired off instinct, he wasn't reacting, it was stated that he didn't react to it but that it was entirely instinct. This would scale to Ulq not Ichigo.

 

[Jvando]

The calc is for the speed of Getsuga Tenshou he fired off instinct, he wasn't reacting, it was stated that he didn't react to it but that it was entirely instinct. This would scale to Ulq not Ichigo.

The same Ulq who blitzed Ichigo at Mach 70?

 

[Tyri456]

That is the feat itself lol.

Ichigo get Blitzed and Ulquiorra was literally at his thorat, Is literally the feat.

According to your logic Ichigo should be dead, beacuse he already get blitzed. Therefore his speed can't be that high. Because he saved himself from something he get blizted. "contradction!!" When it is just what happened. The "contradction" of that attack speed being much Higher than his reaction is not a contradiction, because is the feat itself.

The only solution, is that neither of them was serious, and assuming that reaction for Ichigo is the low-end.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The same Ulq who blitzed Ichigo at Mach 70?

I'd be fine using a higher speed for Ulq to get the Getsuga Tenshou speed of a thoughtless instinctual Ichigo.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Again. The whole contradiction is because of the assumption that Ulq is Mach 70 ? Where exactly did that come from ? Statement ? Feat ? Databook ?

 

[Damage3245]

@CloudStrife; from the calc itself.

 

[Tyri456]

The mach 70 is not an assumption, is just a consequence on assuming that Ichigo has superhuman reaction speed. Something which is done as daily basis on speed calc.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Yup I am confused. I am out for this calc.

.......
Btw I have a different Idea for the calc. We have a reaction feat for Ichigo when he dodges a sword that is about to pierce his eye (From Byakuya I presume?) If we could calculate his reaction for that and

Replace that with Superhuman reaction that was used. Maybe we might get a better and more consistent speed for Ulq.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It appears all the arguments regarding lightning speed Onmitsukido are now being disregarded by staff in favor of discussing an old rejected calc, lol to be expected I guess.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

I was under the assumption that it was accepted since that was such a cut and clear statement and feat.

 

[Damage3245]

I was under the assumption that it was accepted since that was such a cut and clear statement and feat.

Are you talking about the lightning speed Onmitsukido? Because then you really haven't been paying attention to the last couple of pages of discussion.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

True. I really haven't been paying attention and really reading all that puts me off since all the arguments are so childish and biased just so that verse can be downgraded. I got tired of it after the 6th page.

I am paying attention now so can someone give a summary as to why that is being rejected?

Btw Idk other pages but I do see that every point made by Arc and other has been ignored. I am assuming that ignoring them means you are not even acknowledging their existence ?

 

[Damage3245]

@CloudStrife; after a certain point we'd simply be repeating ourselves back and forth, which is why I haven't responded to every single post made by somebody on the opposing side.

As for the current argument, I recommend you go back a couple of pages and familiarize yourself with the discussion that's been had so far.

I also don't see what good it would do to explain myself to you since you're describing my arguments as "childish and biased." If you really believe that, then what's the point of talking about it any further?

 

[CloudStrife00T]

From what I know so far that Lightning feat is being rejected based on that Fodders don't scale to their own attacks or if they do scale then captains don't scale to them since fodders are now faster than captains.

Answers to this was pointed out by Arc and Apple.

So unless you have anything else to say this would get accepted.

 

[Damage3245]

@CloudStrife; I've already responded to their points.

It is not conclusive that the "lightning strike" statement is intended for physical movement speed / attack speed. The wording of the statement implies it is a literal lightning strike - and as for why the assassin used that instead of a physical strike? Maybe he thought that the speed of the lightning would be too much for Toki to handle, and Toki just proved him wrong.

It is not conclusive that this is something that applies to every assassin instead of just the one who used it. Just like how moments before in the fight one of the assassins used his Zanpakuto to create fireballs.

It is not conclusive that this should backscale towards assassins from 2.5 years ago in the Soul Society arc.

Invite other members of staff to examine the statements, please, but until anything new gets brought up I would say this has been rejected for now.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

So you are asking for a databook rather than just statements ?

And in that databook author must write everything about speed of character at different moments. Then and only then can calc for bleach be upgraded ?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

It is not conclusive that the "lightning strike" statement is intended for physical movement speed / attack speed.

This has been addressed, they saw ranged attacks weren't effective, it's most logical to assume they would try physical attacks next.

It is not conclusive that this is something that applies to every assassin instead of just the one who used it. Just like how moments before in the fight one of the assassins used his Zanpakuto to create fireballs.

We apply Orihime's explosion feat generalized to all 4th seats, why, because fodder tier characters aren't distinguishable from each other. The only reason you argue this is because unlike the Orihime feat, this one would be fast.

It is not conclusive that this should backscale towards assassins from 2.5 years ago in the Soul Society arc.

Except scans were provided showing that Soifon never changed the regime of her Onmitsukido corps, so to assume they all of a sudden outspeed Captains from any point is quite ridiculous.

To which the normal people here agree with me on this.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The reason we generalize fodder tier character feats is so we can get a scale for all important characters, because not every character has a speed feat to go off of.

If you want to say we cannot generalize the assassins' speeds, then be consistent for once in your life and apply that logic to Orihime's explosion calc. In that case good luck finding speed feats for every single character because generalizing fodder characters for relevant characters to upscale is now wrong apparently.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; logical, maybe, but not provable.

Even if we go with your interpretation that some assassin coated his sword in lightning to enhance his speed or whatever, you have no evidence anyone else can do the same thing.

As for the 4th seat character, he didn't use any ability to do his feat. He simply reacted and struck Orihime's attack down. I also don't recall us scaling every 4th seat to him, rather we scale everybody higher than 4th to him (as in Captains, Vice Captains, 3rd Seats, etc.)

 

[CloudStrife00T]

I agree with the points that Arc said since they logically make sense. Unless you are really serious about wanting Author to Publish a Databook just for the speed feats at different instance. If authors did that then people here wouldn't be power scaling.

I suggest we go for a vote then. Since this is not just about calcs and statements. It is more about Moderators not being able to back down.

Everyone gets a single vote be it moderators or others.

and we can vote on Lightning calc. with a statement. If this would be accepted or not.

This is fiction nothing is provable. If you start asking for proofs then all verse should be downgraded to human speed and reaction since the only thing that is provable is that they walk and talk at human speeds.

 

[00potato]

I agree with cloud on this. Put me in for yes.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

logical, maybe, but not provable.

Last I checked when something is unclear we go off of the most logical assumption. Time and time again in this thread, we see you agreeing that something is the most logical but still rejecting it, absolutely wild.

Even if we go with your interpretation that some assassin coated his sword in lightning to enhance his speed or whatever, you have no evidence anyone else can do the same thing.

As for the 4th seat character, he didn't use any ability to do his feat. He simply reacted and struck Orihime's attack down.

I refer you back to my comments on generalizing fodder tier characters. By this logic just because that 4th seat scales above Orihime doesn't mean Captains should. So choose one, characters can scale above generalized fodder or not.

 

[Damage3245]

> Last I checked when something is unclear we go off of the most logical assumption. Time and time again in this thread, we see you agreeing that something is the most logical but still rejecting it, absolutely wild.

No, I said it was logical, not the most logical. I still believe the other interpretation to be more logical and likely.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Then that is what you believe that is based on assumption that what you think is more logical which is not true.

If you really think there is something that is more logical then tell us what is this "MORE LOGICAL" Assumption and we can vote on which is more logical.

Now we are just dragging the whole thing. Lets start by voting about things which should or should not be accepted.
If not accepted then coming up with solution so that we can get a unified view on how those feats, statements can be accepted.

If we go on like this then we would get nowhere and then this would be just a test of patience at the end of the day. In which you have the advantage since you can just call few other mods and close this and do whatever you want.

I don't feel like giving you that advantage and just do whatever you want with the verse.

 

[AppleLord]

It is not conclusive that this should backscale towards assassins from 2.5 years ago in the Soul Society arc.

It is concluded that Tokinada scales to this feat. Tokinada is a lazy aristocrat that existed before Tousen joined the Gotei 13 and the protagonist was born. The rebuttal gets debunked by the context that Tokinada planned to overthrow the Soul Society itself. If Tokinada is the only character that scales to lightning speed before the start of the show he would have had taken over already.

 

[Damage3245]

It is concluded that Tokinada scales to this feat. Tokinada is a lazy aristocrat that existed before Tousen joined the Gotei 13 and the protagonist was born. The rebuttal gets debunked by the context that Tokinad planned to overthrow the Soul Society itself. If Tokinada is the only character that scales to lightning speed before the start of the show he would have had taken over already.

... So you're arguing that everyone in the Soul Society arc should scale to FTL since that's what Tokinada currently scales to?