The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[Arc7Kuroi]

At this point three members of staff have spoken up now to argue in agreement with me. Not counting Matthew who has simply voiced his additional agreement.

I think this has been enough.

How, you're points are literally falling apart.

> That's only an issue if Ichigo was using the same amount of force in his later swings.

I've literally explained several times why we can't assume Ichigo was varying the power of his swings.

 

[00potato]

Why would the assumption be varying swing power? Wouldn’t the default position be a consistent set unless anything disagrees with it.

 

[Damage3245]

Why would the assumption be varying swing power? Wouldn’t the default position be a consistent set unless anything disagrees with it.

That Ichigo gets faster would disagree with it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why would the assumption be varying swing power? Wouldn’t the default position be a consistent set unless anything disagrees with it.

Yes, you're correct. There's never an indication that Ichigo's AP changes throughout the fight. The only comments we get are about his speed.

 

[Purgy]

@00potato Damage is arguing the swing was stronger because Ichigo got at least twice as fast, but the thing is, Ichigo was using 1 hand to swat the petals and 2 hands when Byakuya blocked the swing with petals, meaning when Byakuya blocked the swing Ichigo was using more force.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, you're correct. There's never an indication that Ichigo's AP changes throughout the fight. The only comments we get are about his speed.

Byakuya states Ichigo's Bankai ability: He fights at maxium force at super high speed.

@Purgy; I never said Ichigo was twice as fast.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That Ichigo gets faster would disagree with it.

Bruh Ichigo comes from above to hit the original wall that means he put his whole mass into the swing.

KE for two-handed would be .5mv^2

When he's using one hand he doesn't use his body and matches Byakuya's 2 times speed increase. Arm is 5% body mass btw.

KE for one-handed swing would be at least .5(.05m)(2v)^2 = .5(.2)mv^2

Going by science his swings would be weaker.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

That was because all those petals were concentrated on one spot while here the petals were divided in all directions.

 

[Purgy]

@Damage3245 That's what we agreed when we were discussing it with Shadow iirc, Byakuya got twice as fast so Ichigo also got at least twice as fast to keep up and outspeed him.

 

[00potato]

It states that he fights with maximum force, not anything about his force increasing at a set speed.

 

[Damage3245]

@Damage3245 That's what we agreed when we were discussing it with Shadow iirc, Byakuya got twice as fast so Ichigo also got at least twice as fast to keep up and outspeed him.

I don't know what other people agreed on. I'm just clarifying it's not something I stated.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Does this have anything to do with the calc ?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Byakuya states Ichigo's Bankai ability: He fights at maxium force at super high speed.

@Purgy; I never said Ichigo was twice as fast.

Maximum force and super high speed are separate things here, he doesn't say you can swing with maximum force with higher speed. He just says at.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Bruh Ichigo comes from above to hit the original wall that means he put his whole mass into the swing.

KE for two-handed would be .5mv^2

When he's using one hand he doesn't use his body and matches Byakuya's 2 times speed increase. Arm is 5% body mass btw.

KE for one-handed swing would be at least .5(.05m)(2v)^2 = .5(.2)mv^2

Going by science his swings would be weaker.

This literally disproves that Ichigo's swungs got stronger, if you want to use more speed = more AP argument.

 

[Purgy]

And that's not even accounting for the ridiculous boost using two hands gives in Bleach, that's just using the real world increase.

 

[Damage3245]

This literally disproves that Ichigo's swungs got stronger, if you want to use more speed = more AP argument.

That's only if you assume Ichigo only got twice as fast.

 

[Purgy]

Which is the best you can argue without yet more baseless assumptions.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

That's only if you assume Ichigo only got twice as fast.

At most we can give Ichigo is a two times speed increase because he went from matching handless Byakuya to hand Byakuya which was a two times. Arguing above 2 times is headcanon.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Damage3245 nothing indicates Ichigo swung with varying AP, so why would we assume he swatted all the petals with more AP. Faster =/= more AP in every instance, so you can't say faster = stronger.

 

[Damage3245]

At most we can give Ichigo is a two times speed increase because he went from matching handless Byakuya to hand Byakuya which was a two times. Arguing above 2 times is headcanon.

I think you're not even realizing the implications of your own calc.

Let's say that the furthest petal away from Ichigo when he starts deflecting them is 50 meters away.

If we go with your interpretation that Ichigo had to hit all of them then in the time it took that petal to cross the 50 meters to reach Ichigo, your calc puts Ichigo' sword as having travelled 61614.604 meters.

That's a distance 1232.29208 times higher than what Byakuya's Bankai travelled in the same timeframe...

And you want to say that Ichigo was only twice as fast as Byakuya's Bankai?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Let's say that the furthest petal away from Ichigo when he starts deflecting them is 50 meters away.

No I don't want to say/assume anything about where Byakuya's petals were.

Also, Byakuya petals can't phase through each other, so if a petal is in the process of approaching Ichigo petals behind it can't pass by.

That argument assumes the petals moved with a uniform velocity and flowed like a liquid with nothing blocking their path, that doesn't have to be the case, and isn't the case.

The petals can only move to Ichigo as fast as Ichigo swats away the petals in front of them.

 

[AKM sama]

I mean, it is entirely possible for the petals right after the ones hitting the blade to be taken out as well

 

[Damage3245]

I mean, it is entirely possible for the petals right after the ones hitting the blade to be taken out as well

Indeed.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

and its entirely possible that they weren't?

There are a lot of possibility. There is a scan to show they weren't. If there is a scan that shows they were then we can assume that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I mean, it is entirely possible for the petals right after the ones hitting the blade to be taken out as well

My god people that's an assumption backed by nothing.

I could say "it's entirely possible Ichigo hit each petal 1 by 1" and it holds as much weight as your statement.

Saying "maybe petals flew into each other" is not a valid counter argument.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Sorry My emotions got the better of me.

 

[Purgy]

Arc7Kuroi's argument clearly has more evidence pointing towards it, I fail to see how you can disagree.

Is Damage's argument "possible"? Sure, many thing are possible, is it more likely than Arc7Kuroi's? No...

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No it doesn't they are moderators. Their statement holds more weight even if they are baseless.

As much as I'm inclined to disagree or agree, it's probably best we don't attack their character here. Let's keep the debate here solely focused on the feat. This will lead to derailment and a closed thread for toxicity.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Let's finish this. Just tell me has a calc that is supported by two statement, a narrative few small proves and a sound argument been rejected based on an argument that is based on another possibility been rejected before for other verses ? I will give up pushing for the calc.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

Sorry my emotions got the better of me. I apologize.

 

[Damage3245]

@CloudStrife00T; two statements? What is the second one?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Let's go back to the original feat: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-014.png
We see individual petals flying off with Ichigo's swings, indicating that he wasn't cleaving through large chunks at a time.

Here we see a large chunk block Ichigo's swing: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-010.png
This further supports the notion that Ichigo can't take out a massive portion of petals in a single swing.

Now we have Byakuya's statement: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-015.png
Byakuya comments on how the nature of Ichigo's feat should be impossible. The narrative is now confirming what we saw, that being Ichigo was able to swing a tremendously large amount of times in a short timeframe, not that he smacked away chunks with shockwaves.

Keep in mind it's never indicated or stated Ichigo was varying the power of his swings.

 

[CloudStrife00T]

1 is Byakuya's statement about swatting the petals away while the other is about Ichigo's bankai when Byakuya explains what it does and explains how it is possible to perform such a feat.

 

[Damage3245]

1 is Byakuya's statement about swatting the petals away while the other is about Ichigo's bankai when Byakuya explains what it does and explains how it is possible to perform such a feat.

.... That second statement is what I brought up, as support for my point.

Anyway, that's four - possibly five members of staff if AKM is agreeing with me. How much longer does this need to go on for?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

It’s astonishing to me how me how all these staff members are supporting this one logic based off of maybes and analogy’s.

The scan of Ichigo’s 2 handed strike with all his body weight was casually blocked by the same petals and nothing happen to them. It’s so incredibly easy to see which argument has more weight when one is visually supported by the manga panel.

 

[Purgy]

@Damage3245 Does it really matter how many staff members agree with you when your argument has been debunked?

I have to question the motives of some of these staff members if they're agreeing with you after everything that's been said here, not trying to throw shade, but, it's a little ridiculous.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Let's go back to the original feat: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-014.png
We see individual petals flying off with Ichigo's swings, indicating that he wasn't cleaving through large chunks at a time.

Here we see a large chunk block Ichigo's swing: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-010.png
This further supports the notion that Ichigo can't take out a massive portion of petals in a single swing.

Now we have Byakuya's statement: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-015.png
Byakuya comments on how the nature of Ichigo's feat should be impossible. The narrative is now confirming what we saw, that being Ichigo was able to swing a tremendously large amount of times in a short timeframe, not that he smacked away chunks with shockwaves.

Keep in mind it's never indicated or stated Ichigo was varying the power of his swings.

Damage: "staff agrees with me"
Also Damage: fails to debunk my claims and argumentation

It's obvious you aren't interested in what's most accurate and just want to close this up. The fact staff are agreeing with you despite your argument being entirely based on hypotheticals is sus as ****.

 

[Purgy]

Anyway, this discussion is becoming pretty boring and has gone on for quite a while, most of that was just going in circles, but I'll just say I agree with Arc7Kuroi's version and be on my way.

 

[00potato]

.... That second statement is what I brought up, as support for my point.

Anyway, that's four - possibly five members of staff if AKM is agreeing with me. How much longer does this need to go on for?

Yeah and it supports his equally if not more.

Also most of those staff comments were very old except for John, considering how much discussion happened afterwards it is unfair to count them since they only had half of the discussion. Also one of those was Matt so it doesn’t really count.

 

[Duedate8898]

@Damage3245 Does it really matter how many staff members agree with you when your argument has been debunked?

I have to question the motives of some of these staff members if they're agreeing with you after everything that's been said here, not trying to throw shade, but, it's a little ridiculous.

I would think the fact that the staff members and other members agree with Damage would disagree with the idea that his argument has been debunked.