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The Big Bleach Speed CRT
- Thread starter Damage3245
- Start date
- Status
- 31,574
- 28,025
- Thread starter
- #322
You're posting the same scans that I use...
I think I've argued my point well enough, and four members of staff have agreed with me so far, and none with you. It seems fair to say your position has been rejected.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
Damage be precise. Feat is there I know. Arc posted the page and so did Purgy to support their argument.
Your Argument is read the manga.
You have the right to post the picture so do post the pricise picture that supports your argument and explain to us that this is happening in this image that supports your argument.
....
If staff members agree with you then please ask them to msg here and explain why they agree with you and why would this calc be rejected.
Your Argument is read the manga.
You have the right to post the picture so do post the pricise picture that supports your argument and explain to us that this is happening in this image that supports your argument.
....
If staff members agree with you then please ask them to msg here and explain why they agree with you and why would this calc be rejected.
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Two of those staff members haven't actually said anything in this thread, beyond Matthew reiterating that he agrees with you without any actual explanation.
Atleast Dark and Shadow actually defended your argument.
Want to also add, both Matthew and the other person (Sorry I forgot your name) agreed with you before any of the counter arguments were made.
Atleast Dark and Shadow actually defended your argument.
Want to also add, both Matthew and the other person (Sorry I forgot your name) agreed with you before any of the counter arguments were made.
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You're not posting any scans. Your arguments are stuff like ths "in bowling I can knock over two pins by hitting just one pins" that's not a valid counter. Hell one of your arguments was "I dmed some staff and they agreed with me". You even argued that all =/= every which is utterly ridiculous.
I'm baffled that I can provide scan after scan, supporting my point, but staff can say stuff like "I disagree" or "you guys ever play bowling" and boom my argument is tossed aside. I guess I shouldn't be surprised after what Ant said in the DB thread, staff opinion is all that matters after all.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
This is bothersome. This is a open and close feat and we are having a big argument over it based on hypothetical situations. Are the CRT or Calc acceptance of other verses like that too?
I don't remember delving into hypothetical situations for calcs in other verses ?
As long as the feat is there and a statement is there and it doesn't cause contradiction it should be accepted.
Here we have feat, two statement, 2 minor proofs and No contradiction this should be more than enough.
I don't remember delving into hypothetical situations for calcs in other verses ?
As long as the feat is there and a statement is there and it doesn't cause contradiction it should be accepted.
Here we have feat, two statement, 2 minor proofs and No contradiction this should be more than enough.
- 31,574
- 28,025
- Thread starter
- #328
@CloudStrife00T; you do realize that Arc7Kuroi's position is also a hypothetical? That Ichigo hypothetically just collected enough enough blades to neatly line up on his sword, then got rid of them instead of continuing his swing into the petals behind them?
It'd be like he is stopping his sword short with every swing instead of following through, just as soon as reaches the exact threshold to coat his sword.
That makes way, way less sense to me.
It'd be like he is stopping his sword short with every swing instead of following through, just as soon as reaches the exact threshold to coat his sword.
That makes way, way less sense to me.
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If you'd like, Ichigo has 23 swing after images in the panel of the feat, I can count each individual petal that we see flying off, to say Ichigo cut that many petals in 23 swings.
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Not at all if he's shaving off layers this is not true, and it's pseudo-accounted for because the petals wouldn't be stacked like paper.
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- Thread starter
- #331
@Arc7Kuroi; that would be amusing just to see how high the results could be.
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@Damage3245 lol that's one thing we agree on.
Counted 69 petals btw, so that's 3 petals per swing, or .14c for the end result.
Counted 69 petals btw, so that's 3 petals per swing, or .14c for the end result.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
Then you are picturing it wrong.
Its like he cut the layers of petal and then he swatted them but the only ones that will get swatted away are the ones that are in direct contact with the sword while they others would just pass upwards (like a V shape) towards Ichigo because of the force byakuya is applying while the front layer would be contending with Ichigo's sword.
So at the end they would move a little back and then come up front.
So Ichigo has to slash his sword that many number of times to finally clear the encirclement.
And that is Arcs calc.
I hope this makes more sense to you.
Its like he cut the layers of petal and then he swatted them but the only ones that will get swatted away are the ones that are in direct contact with the sword while they others would just pass upwards (like a V shape) towards Ichigo because of the force byakuya is applying while the front layer would be contending with Ichigo's sword.
So at the end they would move a little back and then come up front.
So Ichigo has to slash his sword that many number of times to finally clear the encirclement.
And that is Arcs calc.
I hope this makes more sense to you.
- 31,574
- 28,025
- Thread starter
- #334
> So at the end they would move a little back and then come up front.
Why?
Why?
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
Because of the force that Byakuya is constantly applying ?
Like during the clash of two energy attacks like Kamehameha why does the one that was pushed back goes forward again ? because there is a constant force that pushes it forward.
Byakuya petals follow the same principle as they being controlled at all times and at all times byakuya is applying the contant force on them
Like during the clash of two energy attacks like Kamehameha why does the one that was pushed back goes forward again ? because there is a constant force that pushes it forward.
Byakuya petals follow the same principle as they being controlled at all times and at all times byakuya is applying the contant force on them
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I think you're misunderstanding Cloud. Only the petals that touch Ichigo's blade are blasted away (aka the 1000ish that can line his blade) the rest continue pushing forward.
- 31,574
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- Thread starter
- #337
But you do acknowledge that the ones Ichigo's sword hit were knocked back (despite the constant force on them to go forward). It is the same logic with the other ones. Byakuya's "force" was overpowered.
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Only for the petals that came into direct contact with the blade (aka the ~1000).
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
why don't you try it yourself. Idk if this would work by if you take a light paper and make little pieces of it then group them together and then attack them with something very thin at high speed. They will not be shaved away but will come forward via wind. While only that are actually touching the instrument you are using would be fully swept away.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
I don't think anyone is denying that. What we are saying is that force which is able to overpower Byakuya's petals only apply to those that are in direct contact and there is not enough force to overpower other layers that is why Ichigo had to hit all of them and that is why Byakuya said that he swatted all of them.
- 31,574
- 28,025
- Thread starter
- #341
That's the big assumption that the calc is based on, it seems.
I see no reason why we must make that assumption.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
Oh there are those small foam balls that are poured in bean bag ? They should be enough for the experiment.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
It would be an assumption if there was no statement. Because there is context that we get the subtext.
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Ok so we have two assumptions:
He swept through layers at a time, thus his blade did not come into contact with all the petals, as some petals knocked away others. (Your assumption)
or
He hit every single petal with his blade. (My assumption)
Byakuya says he swatted all of them, so the second is the less far-reaching assumption.
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- Thread starter
- #345
Tell you what - get a couple dozen marbles and roll them down a table towards one end as a dense group.
Then lay a ruler or a stick on the table and slide it towards the marbles heading your way. You should see pretty much all of the marbles stop... because the marbles you hit at the front will be sent back into the marbles behind them.
@Arc7Kuroi; Byakuya's statement would be true even for the first assumption. "Swatting all of them" =/= hitting each individual petal. Shadow explained this to you earlier.
The bowling analogy works for that too. "Knocking over all the pins" =/= Striking each individual pin separately.
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Occam's Razor supports the idea of hitting each individual petal.
Byakuya says he swatted all of them and that that should be impossible. The fact Byakuya would think it's impossible supports that it is each and every petal. Since it wouldn't be farfetched to say someone could blow away the petals with a shockwave. Rather, like Byakuya and yourself seem to think, it is impossible for Ichigo to hit every petal. Which is the point of the feat, Ichigo did the impossible, he made lightning strike twice, he got another miracle.
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
Dude why do you think I gave the idea of foam balls? Because they are petals. They do not have the weight of marbles not only that there is a contant force that is being applied that moves them forward. Things like that we see in leaf's or foam balls. Marbles are not the right example.
- 885
- 902
It’s true I’ve been more or less staying away from this thread and I think my decision was right, but seeing as how I do agree with Damage, I might as well just say my piece so my comment is on here.
Basically, I agree with the below interpretation of events which is basically what damage is basically saying.
Others might disagree, which is fine, but I’m just saying that the feat in question isn’t as clear cut as some believe and extrapolating from a phrase (which can also be interpreted multiple ways) doesn’t help the case.
Anyway, now I’ve written down why I disagree.
Basically, I agree with the below interpretation of events which is basically what damage is basically saying.
Others might disagree, which is fine, but I’m just saying that the feat in question isn’t as clear cut as some believe and extrapolating from a phrase (which can also be interpreted multiple ways) doesn’t help the case.
Anyway, now I’ve written down why I disagree.
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@Jvando the problem with that is we only see bits and pieces of the petals being knocked away, rather than whole chunks like your image suggest.
That interpretation goes against this: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-014.png
That interpretation goes against this: https://s1.mangabeast01.com/manga/Bleach/0163-014.png
CloudStrife00T
They/Them- 313
- 66
I think that premise is wrong to begin with. You whole assumption stands on that Zangestu is on one side while all petals are on the other as a 2d Structure and they cannot change lane in which they are in.
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- Thread starter
- #353
The exact same issue exists for your interpretation.
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- Thread starter
- #355
That's only an issue if Ichigo was using the same amount of force in his later swings.
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Not at all because Ichigo would be able to shave off layers proportional to his blade, and the panel itself suggests he's shaving off layers, not chunks. I stack the petals like paper in my calc to heavily lowball to appease the lowballed nature of this website.
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@Damage3245 And we've gone over why that is specifically the case, though I'll be generous and say he was using the exact same force, even though that's clearly wrong because 2 handed boost > unquantifiable AP boost from 2x speed.
- 31,574
- 28,025
- Thread starter
- #358
At this point three members of staff have spoken up now to argue in agreement with me. Not counting Matthew who has simply voiced his additional agreement.
I think this has been enough.
I think this has been enough.
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Ichigo only mentions he can go faster, not that he can swing with more AP. I've already disapproved as well why swinging with one-hand at double speed is actually less KE as well.
Regardless we shouldn't assume he's striking harder, only faster.
- Status
