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Terraria Revisions: I feel like no one has touched this franchise since 1.4 hit but that's alright

DMUA

He/Him
VS Battles
Calculation Group
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General ability revisions​

There's honestly way too many little things, so I'll just link the glow up I did of the Terrarian's profile here. Though, you'll also notice that a lot of the stats are shifted around and there are other abilities, so let's move onto explaining those, starting with the more minor stuff first.

All of this stuff comes from the Bestiary

Ice Bats are capable of flash freezing whoever they attack, but the Terrarian can resist it, only being outright frozen with a low probability.

Gigazappers are able to atomize "Anything". It's not clear if this is AP or matter manipulation, but I feel a possible resistance to Matter Manipulation is reasonable.

Though, on the note of resistances, I left everything inherent like resistance to the ancient spirits of light and darkness and ice manipulation there, but across the board, it and a lot of PnA was misplaced. Like, Hardmode gear being considered before the Wall of Flesh. Which is a problem likely caused by the fact that the keys were incredibly vague and didn't note which point of progression "Mid game" is supposed to mean. So, I used more clear terms like "Post-Evil Bosses, Hardmode" and so on. Wall of Flesh and everything underworld related is under said key because it's immediately proceeding hardmode, and the Terrarian would be about that strong by the time they're down there. Stuff that drops directly from the wall of flesh is hardmode gear, after all.

There's nothing suggesting that Skeletron can possess people in general who go into the dungeon, especially after he was killed by the Terrarian in the first place, so he shouldn't have resistance to Possession.

Regeneration negation might be game mechanics, but I'm not entirely sure. At the very least, Regeneration is established in universe through the Nurse's dialogue, and something like the Cursed Inferno would very likely have such a thing as a piece of it's supernatural properties.

I still feel like I missed something, but let's continue.

Another thing I wanted to cover that's unrelated to the Terrarian himself, is some abilities that slimes in general have, which should be applicable to King Slime.

Slimes can apparently absorb the cursed energy of the dungeon to become dungeon slimes and thus increase their power, and in general they've proven to have an ability to adapt to pretty much any environment. From changing their body composition to sand to survive the desert, to being seemingly unaffected by the surfaces of their bodies freezing, to consuming and repurposing toxins from the jungle and thorns, to straight up just becoming lava to withstand the Underworld. They also have fusionism, as slimes can come together to form a King or Queen slime.

Boss resistances should also probably be justified, but it's easy enough to say stuff like "immune to confused" or in the destroyer's case "immune to every form of debuff in the game", which would actually be quite the list inofitself, but, I think it is about time I stop delaying and get into the really good stuff.

Souls of Light, Night, Flight and so on are conceptual​

Now, this may seem like a stretch just off of that title, but, when you get down to it, I honestly don't know why nobody's pushed for this before.

Let's read the in game descriptions for the souls.
'The essence of powerful flying creatures'
-Souls of Flight
'The essence of light/dark creatures'
-Souls of light/night
'The essence of omniscient watchers'
-Souls of Sight
'The essence of pure terror'
-Souls of Fright

As you'll notice, all of these descriptions are very general, in spite of most of them dropping from only one type of enemy. The only one that's actually specific is the Souls of Might, which directly states it's the destroyer's essence, but that drives a stark contrast with the rest of the souls, and is a bit weird when in the 3DS version, it can be dropped from Lupis... Not sure if that counts, but it's something of note.

The names of the items themselves lean into this as well, as they refer to concepts such as Flight, Night and so on directly. The souls themselves also don't really behave like other spiritual entities, as they're entirely inanimate. Wraiths and Ghosts move around and try to attack you, and Dungeon Spirits straight up pop out of enemies to attack you. If these Souls were in fact simply the soul of whatever you just killed, then it's weird that they don't still continue to attack you.

In terms of powers, this means that the Terrarian has Conceptual Non-Physical interaction to go with the other types he already has considering he can use them to craft items and grab them in the first place, and that the corruption, crimson and Hallow are capable of Conceptually altering creatures when they go deep underground (as any type of enemy found in said biomes drop souls of night/light regardless if they are native), which the Terrarian himself isn't affected by in any capacity, giving him Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation.

As per what type, there's nothing to really suggest it transcends reality like Type 2 suggests, so it's probably Type 3 instead.

5-C Wall of Flesh​

Now, this might also might seem a bit out there, but, it does make sense in context.

Now, way back when, we had the Destroyer, Skeletron Prime and Twins be High 6-A for stopping the solar eclipse from being able to occur, but there was no lore reason for them to do so. It was just gameplay mechanics.

... What isn't gameplay mechanics, however, is the fact that the Solar Eclipse is one of the things that the Wall of Flesh is supposed to seal away in the first place. In fact, even if you kill every single Mechanical boss and then try to summon a Solar Eclipse via a Solar Tablet in a Pre-Hardmode world, it won't actually work.

Now, one might question how that makes sense considering 5-C is an endgame feat, and it might not make sense for the Wall of Flesh to be that level dramatically before that point.

To which I raise...

Upgrading Endgame by undoing a downgrade of old​

So, way back in 2018, Assalt made this thread stating that the timeframe for the celestial pillars feat is unquantifiable, invalidating this calc

Not much has changed, but, even with the existing evidence... Yeah I don't think that makes any sense.

For the feat to only be Moon level, they'd have to drag the moon down at around Hypersonic speed, which would take over 2 days.

Now, just hearing that out of context, it doesn't seem too unrealistic... Until you consider that the Celestial Towers just sort of, do this immediately upon showing up. The second they spawn in the world, they bring the moon that close. Sure, a player may not be likely to witness that, considering they'll likely not engage immediately and just plan out how they want to tackle the towers, prepare buffs, whathave you, but there's no reason to assume that because a player might relent and thus the towers don't need to immediately pull the moon closer, that they take over 48 hours. And such an assumption is further contradicted by the actual source of the calc: an item that can alter the background to match one of the backgrounds made by the towers' presence, which takes 3 seconds and uses the components you gain from the celestial towers. Like, just, straight up, you see the moon in the distance, then it's significantly closer upon activation. I dunno why that was disputed.

Miscellaneous not upgrades​

Now for stuff I find a bit iffy.

Speed of Light via dodging is incredibly sketchy. PVP even in gameplay is basically an afterthought, and even if we were to consider Last Prism as something that can be dodged because a player could have it used against them, it's also explicitly a magic item that doesn't display any lightlike properties besides incredibly fast attack speed.

The beginning of the game key in general is pretty scuffed, considering there aren't any real feats in that span of time. Like, they have to take multiple swings with a pickaxe to even break down part of a wall, they'd probably just be 9-C off of that, but it's not really that notable in terms of the Terrarian's journey. Maybe you disagree, but, either way, if we were to make the key be a thing, it shouldn't be 9-B.

Other than that... Yeah, I think that's just about everything.
 
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I still disagree with the conceptual souls stuff, like I said on discord before, it feels like too much of a stretch for various reasons

But everything else seems fine, I agree
 
Eh, conceptual manip and the stuff related to that are pretty iffy and vague, along with essence having multiple meanings to fit this, so I disagree.

Everything else is fine.
 
There's plenty of reasoning to at least warrant it being a possibility. A lot of it's behaviors are rather distinct from other spiritual items and entities.
 
There was a time that I was thinking on doing this but I gave up, so I'm happy you did it.

In any case, lemme see...

The resistances and general abilities seem fine.

Conceptual stuff I'd say no. It is possible, but I don't find it likely, it always seemed more as a form of energy native to those things rather than anything conceptual, much like how ki is the essence of life itself in many fictional thingies.

The WoF is interesting. I think it's fine, but I'm open to other ideas. Tomorrow I may have more of a say on that, right now it requires further thought.

I never quite understood the downgrade so I'm fine here as well.

I disagree with taking out the SoL thing. Not only there are many light-based items in Terraria such as the laser gun, the heat ray and other things, while the Prism is a magical artifact, it works very much in-line with light. Even taking it out of the equation, there are many other weapons.

I disagree with BoG not being 9-B. Even with a copper pickaxe, Terrarians can break blocks of solid iron and gold, which is treated as way tougher than iron in Terraria, and even the stone bricks aren't breakable that fast by someone in real life using a pickaxe. The Terrarian can survive large falls and weak explosives (although badly), and there are certainly other feats I don't remember rn.
 
wait I thought you were a relic of the past why the fork are you here

It doesn't really need to be a likely to be listed as a possibility, but, alright.
 
wait I thought you were a relic of the past why the fork are you here

It doesn't really need to be a likely to be listed as a possibility, but, alright.
Eh, I tend to stay to myself and go on and off the wiki. In the last few months I've been coming back more consistently thanks to some stuff. I'm glad to have come back.

I get it, but I wouldn't add it because it wouldn't be very different than seeing a fictional universe where people fly without explanation on the mechanics of flight, and slapping a possible Air Manipulation as it is possible that they manipulate air to propel them up.

It isn't impossible or even particularly unlikely, but there is no evidence to that. It could be other things.

Okay, lemme rephrase that, to be fair, the case with Terraria has a bit more evidence than nothing, but conceptual stuff is such a big deal that people often ask for much more solid evidence, at least that's how it worked last time I saw conceptual stuff being talked about.
 
I mean, if said fictional universe proceeded to call the power "the essence of propelling yourself through the air around you" and several other powers shared the convention when it could just be called "flight", then it's definitely something to consider
 
I mean, if said fictional universe proceeded to call the power "the essence of propelling yourself through the air around you" and several other powers shared the convention when it could just be called "flight", then it's definitely something to consider
Yeah, I agree, that's why I rephrased to conceptual stuff usually requiring way more evidence than what's been presented.

If people seem fine in adding it, I wouldn't go against, but I'll tell ya that conceptual abilities are some of the things that people are the most concerned about verifying and it often requires a lot of evidence.
 
Personally I agree terraria has official lore anyway that kinda shows these spirits of Light and Dark concepts that literally when released as we see in gameplay as well alters the World of Terraria immediately when set free, The Hollow for example "functions as an overcompensation of purity, taken to THE ABSOLUTE EXTREME." The same hollow is the only place where one can obtain souls of light as the literal environment they're found in is produced because the concept of "Light" being released on the world bringing it again as the lore calls it to it's "ABSOLUTE EXTREME" when manifested physically.
 
Would the Corruption/Hallow also gain conceptual corruption/soul manip as a result? Since it can cause beings from other biomes to drop souls of light or night if they are in the Hallow or Corruption/Crimson.
 
Yeah

I'm kinda iffy on if the Ancient Spirits of Light and Darkness should even have a page though, there's nothing really implying they're a solid singular force or set of forces, it's just sorta "bam hardmode started" and they never do anything again.

It's not like we need the page in order to explain the resistances or something else's powers anyways
 
Yeah

I'm kinda iffy on if the Ancient Spirits of Light and Darkness should even have a page though, there's nothing really implying they're a solid singular force or set of forces, it's just sorta "bam hardmode started" and they never do anything again.
Oh yeah the should definitely be deleted
 
Oh yeah, knew I forgot something

Moon Lord should have Void Manipulation, as anyone within his presence gets sucked into the void. The monolith you can make from spare Luminite specifically states the black background is as such

It probably doesn't mean much in terms of combat but it is in fact an ability that they use, and it might come in handy in situations where the environment is important for whoever they're fighting
 
everything seems good

The souls (especially because of the essence of pure terror) cannot really be much other than some conceeptual thing, like it can't be spirit because they are threated differently, not can it be liferforce since they can drop from non-living things (also lifeleach weapons show a different thing) nor it can be some other energy because Terraria power system is Mana.

There's also the fact that if it wasn't the concept of night/light/rest and just a random component of beings, you'd expect there to be a neutral essence, but it doesn't exist.
 
Oh yeah, knew I forgot something

Moon Lord should have Void Manipulation, as anyone within his presence gets sucked into the void. The monolith you can make from spare Luminite specifically states the black background is as such

It probably doesn't mean much in terms of combat but it is in fact an ability that they use, and it might come in handy in situations where the environment is important for whoever they're fighting
I agree.

I think that a corruption/crimson/hallow page would be better than the Ancient Spirits
I also agree to this.
 
You beat me to it, damn. Neutral on the gigazappers and conceptual stuff, everything else looks fine, though.
 
Conceptual Stuff
I mean, if said fictional universe proceeded to call the power "the essence of propelling yourself through the air around you" and several other powers shared the convention when it could just be called "flight", then it's definitely something to consider

Yeah, I agree, that's why I rephrased to conceptual stuff usually requiring way more
Personally I agree terraria has official lore anyway that kinda shows these spirits of Light and Dark concepts that literally when released as we see in gameplay as well alters the World of Terraria immediately when set free, The Hollow for example "functions as an overcompensation of purity, taken to THE ABSOLUTE EXTREME." The same hollow is the only place where one can obtain souls of light as the literal environment they're found in is produced because the concept of "Light" being released on the world bringing it again as the lore calls it to it's "ABSOLUTE EXTREME" when manifested physically.

evidence than what's been presented.
It's probably a lot to ask but op should probably be updated with some stuff from the discussion.

Moon Lord Void Manip.

Oh yeah, knew I forgot something

Moon Lord should have Void Manipulation, as anyone within his presence gets sucked into the void. The monolith you can make from spare Luminite specifically states the black background is as such

It probably doesn't mean much in terms of combat but it is in fact an ability that they use, and it might come in handy in situations where the environment is important for whoever they're fighting
 
I mean, it's a thread, one should probably read all of it to understand the full context and I am keeping this stuff in mind

Still though, I'd prefer a more decisive opinion on some stuff. Is "Possible Resistance Conceptual Manipulation/Conceptual Non Physical Interaction" a good compromise?
I disagree with taking out the SoL thing. Not only there are many light-based items in Terraria such as the laser gun, the heat ray and other things, while the Prism is a magical artifact, it works very much in-line with light. Even taking it out of the equation, there are many other weapons.
That said, I entirely missed this.

Again, being magical is a point against it being real light. Magical attacks are inherently meant to not behave in a realistic fashion, and there aren't any examples of them actually behaving in a light-like manner. They don't reflect off of glass blocks, they don't go on forever until they eventually dissipate, they just suddenly stop at a certain point. The Empress of Light and all of her items are a walking violation of this as well, they bend, they go at variable speed, they just disappear after they cross a certain distance, all that.

And even then, that doesn't address how PVP probably isn't canon in the first place, and the Terrarian wouldn't run into a situation where these weapons are used on him anyways.
 
Still though, I'd prefer a more decisive opinion on some stuff. Is "Possible Resistance Conceptual Manipulation/Conceptual Non Physical Interaction" a good compromise?
As I said, I'm hesitant as that kind of thing usually requires more evidence, but I guess it's fine.
Again, being magical is a point against it being real light. Magical attacks are inherently meant to not behave in a realistic fashion, and there aren't any examples of them actually behaving in a light-like manner. They don't reflect off of glass blocks, they don't go on forever until they eventually dissipate, they just suddenly stop at a certain point. The Empress of Light and all of her items are a walking violation of this as well, they bend, they go at variable speed, they just disappear after they cross a certain distance, all that.

And even then, that doesn't address how PVP probably isn't canon in the first place, and the Terrarian wouldn't run into a situation where these weapons are used on him anyways.
Fair enough.

We don't know if PVP is or isn't canon. Unless I've missed something here, there hasn't been any kind of statement or anything against it nor in favour, and on these cases, if I'm not mistaken, it is valid to consider such gameplay things.
 
I mean, the lore of Terrarian is that it's "You, the player, singular" are the one going on the adventure, which really doesn't make sense if the devs actually intended PVP to be a notable attribute of the lore
 
Anyways, this seems to be mostly well received, I think I'll make the revisions tomorrow

It's a bit of a 50/50 split on Concept manipulation, but people have agreed on Possibly, unless the people who disagreed would like to object to that as well
 
Unless I screwed something up royally, I think I've made the edits accordingly
 
dammit knew I forgot something
 
Maybe a nitpick on my part, but shouldn't we just straight up give him resistance to Corruption, rather than just mentioning it on the concept manip part? I thought we always did it that way?
 
I mean, like,

yeah it is resistance to corruption, the profile is so old that simple non physical interaction with spiritual beings was called soul manipulation so I'll just, also throw that on
 
Well, I checked through the profiles, and there doesn't seem to be anything missing. So, I guess we can close this thread now.
 
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