A few terraria revisions

[Phsccarvalho]

While I don't agree that it prevents it from being the moon (they could, after all, all be moving it), it's also generally acceptable to say a moon, or some other celestial body, it doesn't really matter I think. Personally still think it's just the moon and each of them are moving it about.

Sure, it could be a moon, but why the moon in the main world of terraria? Considering the incredible difference between the moons and that they probably exist at the same time if you consider that the scenery of the pillars exists when you are not near them.

That would change the calculation since if they really pull these moons, it's from much further away than ours, since it's not ours.

I'm going to move past the "There's no feats above 8-A!!" thing because, again, I just don't believe that, but don't feel motivated to go a-huntin'

In gameplay you won't find any feat, at most lore, but I doubt it very much.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Sure, it could be a moon, but why the moon in the main world of terraria? Considering the incredible difference between the moons and that they probably exist at the same time if you consider that the scenery of the pillars exists when you are not near them.

That would change the calculation since if they really pull these moons, it's from much further away than ours, since it's not ours.

Yeah I'm not into assigning massively higher tiers for such a thing. I find it feasible that they're all ******* with our moon, at once. I don't think it requires tons more analysis over this.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yeah I'm not into assigning massively higher tiers for such a thing. I find it feasible that they're all ***** with our moon, at once. I don't think it requires tons more analysis over this.

It would still change the calculation since even if they were the same size as our moon, the pillars should pull them from more distant places since they are not our moon since there are 4 existing at the same time.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I suspect you're not picking up what I'm putting down.

They can all be grappling with our moon at the same time. I think that's the simpler explanation than saying "clearly they've dragged their choice of celestial object from solar systems over". Yeah, the moon can be seen from multiple locations at once, no doubt, but again I feel this is moreso just game mechanics- you could have a player ten feet away from another experiencing wildly different backgrounds, it's just how the game works.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I suspect you're not picking up what I'm putting down.

They can all be grappling with our moon at the same time. I think that's the simpler explanation than saying "clearly they've dragged their choice of celestial object from solar systems over". Yeah, the moon can be seen from multiple locations at once, no doubt, but again I feel this is moreso just game mechanics- you could have a player ten feet away from another experiencing wildly different backgrounds, it's just how the game works.

How can it be the same moon and our moon if they are completely different from each other?

Not to mention you can fight at night, so what, the moon is all the time coming back and going out of place?

And I'm not talking about multiplayer or players.

I'm talking about the scenery only changing when you're near the pillars.

So you think that whenever we get close to the pillars they pull the moon and when we get away from them they release the moon again?

Or do you think that each pillar's scenario always exists in each pillar? Because it has 4 moons at the same time, so it couldn't be the same moon.

So you have these two options.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

How can it be the same moon and our moon if they are completely different from each other?

Not to mention you can fight at night, so what, the moon is all the time coming back and going out of place?

And I'm not talking about multiplayer or players.

I'm talking about the scenery only changing when you're near the pillars.

So you think that whenever we get close to the pillars they pull the moon and when we get away from them they release the moon again?

Or do you think that each pillar's scenario always exists in each pillar? Because it has 4 moons at the same time, so it couldn't be the same moon.

So you have these two options.

My dude, I'm going to continue shattering your worldview here, the moon is in fact existent at all hours of the day. If we're already accepting the pillars are changing the cosmos a bit, by moving the moon, then I don't see why you have a hard time believing that it's still there during the daytime AND nighttime.

You see, I, too, was talking about scenery changes- and how they can be wildly different mere feet away from the trigger to change. It's a mechanical thing. It can be a howling blizzard on one block and the next over, light rain.

So, my interpretation is:

• The pillars move the moon, each in a different way- could be a tug of war, could be that each pillar's effects are only perceivable when you get close enough, call it what you will
• Scene changes don't mean much since they are almost purely mechanical

 

[Phsccarvalho]

My dude, I'm going to continue shattering your worldview here, the moon is in fact existent at all hours of the day.

And what does that have to do?

If we're already accepting the pillars are changing the cosmos a bit, by moving the moon, then I don't see why you have a hard time believing that it's still there during the daytime AND nighttime.

Well, why do we have the moon at night? Literally the normal moon moving in a normal way even though the pillars exist?

That's why I'm talking, do you believe they only pull the moon when we get close to the pillars? Because when we are far away, the moon is normal. At night we see her from afar acting normally, so if we were close to a pillar "would be pulled".

I'm in the middle of the night and I see the moon normally, I entered the area of the pillars and now what you call our moon is right in front of my screen. But then I left the pillar area and I see the moon again in the sky normally.

• The pillars move the moon, each in a different way- could be a tug of war, could be that each pillar's effects are only perceivable when you get close enough, call it what you will

It can't be a tug of war because the moon acts normally when we leave the pillars.

Same thing with the pillars thing. The moon acts normally.

• Scene changes don't mean much since they are almost purely mechanical

And I could say that the change of scenery of the pillar along with the celestial body is just a game mechanic since at night we see the moon acting normally, unlike other events that involve it in which it really is changed.

Of course if you don't believe they only pull the moon when you enter the pillar area.

In the High 5-A calculation video itself, if I move away from the monolipo, I will be able to see the moon normally.

So either it wasn't our moon that was pulled or the active monolope for some reason wanted to release the moon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Why can you move literally 2 feet and get light rain instead of a raging blizzard? Why can you do the same with a sandstorm and light rain?

Simple. Game mechanics.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Why can you move literally 2 feet and get light rain instead of a raging blizzard? Why can you do the same with a sandstorm and light rain?

Simple. Game mechanics.

Rain is an event that occurs in all biomes during its duration.

When you are in a normal location it is rain, when you are in a snow biome it is blizzard. And there are 3 types of rain, when one happens it is for all biomes.

Anyway, it's raining, the only game mechanic is the sudden change from one to the other for the rain to suit the biome it's happening in.

And since it lasts in all biomes, there's no such thing as raining in just one biome and the other is normal. When the rain stops, it stops in all biomes.

It has a game mechanic for a logical thing.

But what would be the logic of the pillar and moon thing? What would be the logical thing behind the quick scene change game mechanic? None.

Near the monolip the thing is near and far from the monolip the moon is normal.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Do you want to be assaulted by all four pillar mobs at once? Well there's your answer!

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Do you want to be assaulted by all four pillar mobs at once? Well there's your answer!

For me to be attacked by the 4 at the same time I would have to be close to them, what does that have to do with the moon?

What's more, I'm talking about the monolipos, which is used in the calculation video, which don't have any pillars or enemies.

You can activate all the monolips at once, but if you move away from them, the "moon" returns to normal in your nighttime.

You gave the example of rain, but the rain event happens in all places/biomes at the same time. Pillars and monolips do not.
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Even using other things from the moon, such as the blood moon, or the pumpkin or ice moon, which is the altered moon. It's all over the map, not just in one specific place like the monolips.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Well, I'm tired, and this isn't going to go anywhere at all, as I don't even intend to review something about terraria. And those that do are at a very slow pace.

 

[DaReaperMan]

For me to be attacked by the 4 at the same time I would have to be close to them, what does that have to do with the moon?

What's more, I'm talking about the monolipos, which is used in the calculation video, which don't have any pillars or enemies.

You can activate all the monolips at once, but if you move away from them, the "moon" returns to normal in your nighttime.

You gave the example of rain, but the rain event happens in all places/biomes at the same time. Pillars and monolips do not.
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Even using other things from the moon, such as the blood moon, or the pumpkin or ice moon, which is the altered moon. It's all over the map, not just in one specific place like the monolips.

Do you want to see all four pillar events at once? Cause clearly that's what you want if you don't want to accept the very simple thing of game mechanics being a thing

Notice, how every example you gave for your side has a direct change to the night cycle, but keeps said night cycle to the second.

 

[DMUA]

What do armors have to do with bosses? Besides that increasing the terrarian's magic doesn't give him more defense and not even giving them magic equipment does that.

... It does, though. More powerful magic armor and the likes display a higher defense, there is a connection between more magic power and just generally being more capable, and that's what UES is primarily about. If you only want comparisons that work for bosses, Wall of Flesh is capable of firing lasers as well as physically hitting you, and both do the same amount of damage (with their physical hits being higher if I remember right)

Also, the main thing is that WoF doesn't seal the moon or eclipse, it seals the spirits. When the spirits are released things like an eclipse can happen. Even if these spirits had high ap and durability, sealing is still hax, which in case these spirits do not resist.

Depends on the type of seal, and we really don't have evidence that it's one that strictly cannot be broken by physical force of any kind and can just work on anything without resistance. In fact, we have proof of the contrary given that the Wall of Flesh is itself the seal, which can be destroyed to have the effect break.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

In fact, we have proof of the contrary given that the Wall of Flesh is itself the seal, which can be destroyed to have the effect break.

Is this generally how seals work? If you break them they stop working.

WoF is the seal itself, but it is still sealing the spirits. Where would that increase his durability?

If I seal someone 4-C in a jar, the jar will still have the durability of a jar, and if someone breaks the jar, it will release the guy. WoF is would be a living jar.

 

[DMUA]

By the way, unrelated to current discussions but I've noticed that OP's actually made a few CRTless changes, starting here with adding self sustenance for no reason

So, make of that what it is relative to the absolute horrendous state of their keys

WoF is the seal itself, but it is still sealing the spirits. Where would that increase his durability?

If I seal someone 4-C in a jar, the jar will still have the durability of a jar, and if someone breaks the jar, it will release the guy. WoF is would be a living jar.

If the 4-C is a spirit that doesn't need it's arms or legs free to do attacks, I don't see why it wouldn't just break the jar if it was so capable, especially when the sealing has no indication it's capable of just rendering whoever is within it totally dormant/ignore AP in that sense

 

[StretchSebe]

Looking through the thread quick, I can say that there are a number of blogs with calcs that do exist that could be added, or better incorporated into the verse and character pages to substantiate certain tierings and stats. That said:

Is this generally how seals work? If you break them they stop working.

WoF is the seal itself, but it is still sealing the spirits. Where would that increase his durability?

If I seal someone 4-C in a jar, the jar will still have the durability of a jar, and if someone breaks the jar, it will release the guy. WoF is would be a living jar.

The WoF only seals the hardmode bosses, not scales to them. Even the initial bosses unlocked are all much stronger and more durable than the WoF. WoF's in game stats scale far closer to the pre-hardmode bosses, and the power/ability to seal often isn't reliant on the user or object being literally at the same power level or higher. It is pretty common throughout fiction for the seals or sealing containers themselves to be pretty mundane, with the point being the power/ability to seal being the reason the dangerous entity is restrained via magic or something.

All that to say idt Terraria needs a large revision or downgrade as a layman whose played a lot of Terraria, but this is a good point.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

If the 4-C is a spirit that doesn't need it's arms or legs free to do attacks, I don't see why it wouldn't just break the jar if it was so capable, especially when the sealing has no indication it's capable of just rendering whoever is within it totally dormant/ignore AP in that sense

Why is this how sealing works? Otherwise it wouldn't be a hax.

Even if you are a 4-C being and have no resistance, you are sealed and can't do anything, because that's how hax works. Of course, except in specific works that sealing doesn't work on stronger guys and stuff like that.

 

[StretchSebe]

If the 4-C is a spirit that doesn't need it's arms or legs free to do attacks, I don't see why it wouldn't just break the jar if it was so capable, especially when the sealing has no indication it's capable of just rendering whoever is within it totally dormant/ignore AP in that sense

Because the ability/power to seal is often specialized for whatever it is meant to seal.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

All that to say idt Terraria needs a large revision

I honestly doubt it, although I'm arguing here, I'm just enjoying wasting my time. Terraria is too big and with too many things.

For example, there is still a blog linked to Terrarian with things like MFTL+ (no calculations) and 3-C because of the celestial towers which are currently not even accepted (because the pillars are not 3-C).

But they are there, on the blog linked to the profile.

 

[StretchSebe]

Terraria is too big and with too many things.

We can all at least agree to this.

For example, there is still a blog linked to Terrarian with things like MFTL+ (no calculations) and 3-C because of the celestial towers which are currently not even accepted (because the pillars are not 3-C).

But they are there, on the blog linked to the profile.

Yeah, I'm sure there are things that could and should be fixed, but it does seem like it is mostly a matter of clean up rather than actual issues or missing context.

 

[DMUA]

Why is this how sealing works? Otherwise it wouldn't be a hax.

Even if you are a 4-C being and have no resistance, you are sealed and can't do anything, because that's how hax works. Of course, except in specific works that sealing doesn't work on stronger guys and stuff like that.

It just isn't always a hax. By itself it's just the ability to put something into a space where it's isolated from the outside world, it might commonly be a hax but there are cases where it isn't

Because the ability/power to seal is often specialized for whatever it is meant to seal.

We don't use Powerlisting

The WoF only seals the hardmode bosses, not scales to them.

They don't do either of those things. They seal the Ancient Spirits of Light and Darkness, which end up awakening all these much stronger bosses as a result.

 

[StretchSebe]

We don't use Powerlisting

Right. This link simply provides information on how the ability/power works.

Surely the information provided on how the ability/power works can help you understand how a user doesn't have to literally scale to the entity or thing they are sealing, especially considering there are many kinds of specific sealings - of relevance; spirit sealing, entity sealing, demon sealing, immortal sealing, inorganic sealing - right?

 

[Sillyfox0]

Wof is still sealing hardmode which is sealing, even if wof somehow has 5-c that would be ap alone, high 5 a on pillars is wrong because the "moon" doesnt move but rather teleports, even though its a game mechanic of the background change, you cant apply the moon moving if it teleported (it moving is an assumption), why not universal pillars or galaxy level pillars?
Solar fragment desc: Tooltip'The fury of the universe lies within this fragment'
Nebula fragment desc: Tooltip'The power of a galaxy resides within this fragment'
Straight up statements.
That would be durability since they are made of these

 

[Sillyfox0]

And jeez change the name of the Celestial Towers to celestial pillars

 

[DaReaperMan]

Things to be handled in a 100x more neat way in the big revision I see

 

[Sillyfox0]

Hey quick question DRM if character A is capable of surviving a hit from a Dwarf Star level ap character B, what is A's dura?

 

[Sillyfox0]

Btw i changed the age of the cthulhus body parts to at least 500 y.o. Since they were ripped off during the war against cthulhu, btw does knocking back character A with a platinum block in hand scale to character B's lifting strength, btw how does "Stronger than boss A" (talking about boss B) scale to dura, stronger equals stronger in terms of hp which is a game mechanic, why not just "can take hits from a post-A character" (the bosses never fought each other)

 

[DaReaperMan]

Btw i changed the age of the cthulhus body parts to at least 500 y.o. Since they were ripped off during the war against cthulhu, btw does knocking back character A with a platinum block in hand scale to character B's lifting strength, btw how does "Stronger than boss A" (talking about boss B) scale to dura, stronger equals stronger in terms of hp which is a game mechanic, why not just "can take hits from a post-A character"

"Btw I broke the rules dont @ me"

regurgitated argument sounds

 

[Sillyfox0]

"Btw I broke the rules dont @ me"

regurgitated argument sounds

Moon Lord is cthulhu himself why not "age: at least 500" since his bodyparts were ripped off during the war against cthulhu (Terraria lore Page 4, the dryads ripped off cthulhu's eyes, part of skeleton, chunk of it's brain

 

[DaReaperMan]

Moon Lord is cthulhu himself why not "age: at least 500" since his bodyparts were ripped off during the war against cthulhu (Terraria lore Page 4, the dryads ripped off cthulhu's eyes, part of skeleton, chunk of it's brain

"Why can't i just edit profiles without a CRT!"

Ya gotta understand and get it into your head that A. Your word isn't gospel and people can have different perspectives compared to you, and B. You can't edit profile information with no CRT, this includes things like age.

Instead of rushing, slow down and take your time, compile a full fledged CRT that looks like some thought and effort was put into it with your minor fixes. Key word, MINOR. That means no scaling, no specific stats, just information.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Wof is still sealing hardmode which is sealing, even if wof somehow has 5-c that would be ap alone, high 5 a on pillars is wrong because the "moon" doesnt move but rather teleports, even though its a game mechanic of the background change, you cant apply the moon moving if it teleported (it moving is an assumption), why not universal pillars or galaxy level pillars?
Solar fragment desc: Tooltip'The fury of the universe lies within this fragment'
Nebula fragment desc: Tooltip'The power of a galaxy resides within this fragment'
Straight up statements.
That would be durability since they are made of these

Teleportation requires much more assumptions than moving though lol

We don't take statements to mean much unless substantiated, so we won't be upgrading them baselessly. We see the High 5-A feat on-screen.

 

[Sillyfox0]

Teleportation requires much more assumptions than moving though lol

We don't take statements to mean much unless substantiated, so we won't be upgrading them baselessly. We see the High 5-A feat on-screen.

Okay fine your previous statement did make sense (talking about your "how i view it")

High 5 a is justified, but wof is not 5-c. Sealing is not ap and EVEN IF SOMEHOW sealing with a specific ap does not equal SS, WoF multi city block level

 

[Sillyfox0]

And asking an admin: can i change the age of EoC and BoC to at least 500 years old cuz they were ripped off during the time when the dryads fought the cthulhu

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Okay fine your previous statement did make sense (talking about your "how i view it")

High 5 a is justified, but wof is not 5-c. Sealing is not ap and EVEN IF SOMEHOW sealing with a specific ap does not equal SS, WoF multi city block level

As I said, neutral on 5-C still, I can see it either way and am not passionate about the subject.

As for changing their age, it's not something I'm particularly knowledgeable on as I've never read anything like a Terraria book- if you could post a scan (apologies if you already have and I missed it), I'd appreciate it.

 

[Antvasima]

What are the staff conclusions regarding what should be done here?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

5-C probably warrants a better and more organized discussion since this thread wasn't exactly thought out- that thread should present the arguments against it in an organized way and have an alternative tier in mind, since presently it seems the alternative is scaling everything up to Moon Lord to the absolute weakest boss in the game, which seems... off. I feel it could well be AP and DMUA seems to also indicate he feels it is AP, and since Saikou's gone that's most of the staff on the verse these days. The arguments against High 5-A I rejected previously, that particular tier seems more concrete.

 

[Antvasima]

5-C probably warrants a better and more organized discussion since this thread wasn't exactly thought out- that thread should present the arguments against it in an organized way and have an alternative tier in mind, since presently it seems the alternative is scaling everything up to Moon Lord to the absolute weakest boss in the game, which seems... off. I feel it could well be AP and DMUA seems to also indicate he feels it is AP, and since Saikou's gone that's most of the staff on the verse these days. The arguments against High 5-A I rejected previously, that particular tier seems more concrete.

Thank you for the information.

@DMUA @Phsccarvalho

Would you be willing to handle this please?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Thank you for the information.

@DMUA @Phsccarvalho

Would you be willing to handle this please?

Sorry Ant, perticulously I'm not interested in the moment with Terraria stuff. I've got other crt stuff to sort out and I'll probably be out of a lot of time for a while, at least no time to be on crts.

 

[DMUA]

Would you be willing to handle this please?

I don't even agree with downgrading from 5-C so I'm leaving that end of things up to someone else

The only alternative AP feat I can think of is Duke Fishron making a storm over the ocean but it's nebulous as to how much he actually covers given how small the ocean biome is in game, and that'd only scale to anything post-plantera anyways