Terraria Empress of Light, DG, and Skeletron Prime 5-C removal.

[Keeweed]

I know I said I’d make a thread on the low 7-B Terrarian, but this revision was supposed to happen pre forum move so might as well get it out of the way now. Currently the rage modes of Skeletron Prime, DG, and the Empress of Light are 5-C because they one shot the endgame Terrarian. But there are two massive problems with this 1) all these characters are canon logically dead well before end game. Skeletron Prime and Skeletron are mandatory in order to progress to the end game, and the empress of light officially fought and died to the Terrarian post Plantera according to its head designer. So none of these characters ever fought the end game Terrarian and thus couldn’t have one shot him. 2) the second problem is that Skeletron Prime and Skeletron being superior to the end game Terrarian shoots the game’s scaling in the foot. Skeletron is a curse made by the Moonlord’s bones and Skeletron prime is supposed to be mechanical replacements for those bones. These two being able to one shot someone stronger than the Moon Lord doesn’t make any sense.

SP, EoL, S, and DG should all lose their 5-C tiers and instead their amps would be at least 8-A for everyone that isn’t the EoL while she would be at least low 7-B.

 

[TheGatememer]

Actually, Skeletron can be resummoned at anytime with the Clothier Voodoo Doll. SP and the DG should scale for obvious reasons. The Empress of Light should still be relatively comparable to Golem in strength, since she is post plantera, therefore she should still have "possibly 5-C". I'm fine with removing her "At least" key though.

 

[Keeweed]

Skeletron being resummable is like the eye of Cthulhu being resummable. It’s a gameplay mechanic (especially in the eyes case since it is stated it is a singular entity).

Even assuming skeletron is resummable nothing says the Terrarian did that in canon. Also there would be no reason for the others to scale. DG maybe because it’s made by the same curse (though that brings up problem two, which the Moonlord’s discarded bones would be superior to the Moonlord itself), but the others are entirely disconnected from Skeletron.

When it comes to the Empress this is about her enraged form. Her being 5-C due to scaling to golem is fine, she just won’t one shot the end game Terrarian.

 

[TheGatememer]

The Mecha Mayhem achievement implies that you can still fight bosses even after you have already killed them, despite there only being one of each kind. You also have to kill the Moon Lord numerous times in order to craft the Zenith. The guide also mentions that you can craft the suspicious looking eye/Bloody Spine to fight the Eye/Brain of Cthulhu, even if it has already been killed. So summoning items basically allow you to fight a boss again, even if they have already been "canonically" killed.

 

[Keeweed]

But the bestiary states all of those are singular entities. There is a single replacement spine (the destroyer) for the single moon lord, for example.

They are dead in canon so you being able to redo their fights is just for gameplay purposes.

 

[Deagonx]

Yeah, I have to agree with this logic. I understand that gameplay mechanics need to be considered to some extent in a game, but "one-shot" mechanics being applied to a version of the character which can canonically defeat the very force of power responsible for making Skeletron Prime seems like a leap of logic.

 

[TheGatememer]

Or it could also mean that the summoning brings them back just so you can fight them, which seems like the more likely explanation, since the Guide still says that you can still create the summoning items to fight the bosses that have already been killed. Along with the Mecha Mayhem achievement, there is also the Back for Second achievement that requires you to kill all the mechanical bosses again.

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve noticed we currently have one of the achievements used for the ap justification for the Terrarian, but we really shouldn’t. I don’t think we do that for any other game, and now it seems they contradict what is stated in game.

The guide is referring to a gameplay mechanic there, while majority of what he says is in verse of course one or two of his lines are going to refer to gameplay mechanics when he’s the tutorial of in game stuff. The summoning items resurrecting the bosses just for the fight is a massive assumption, and the bestiary descriptions make it clear as day all the bosses are singular entities.

Plus even assuming he can fight them again. Nothing says he does it in canon, second it would make nigh destroyed pieces of the moonlord, stronger than the moonlord, which makes zero sense. We don’t even need to have that logical inconsistency because the Terrarian is confirmed to have killed those beings before getting his end game equipment.

 

[Deagonx]

second it would make nigh destroyed pieces of the moonlord, stronger than the moonlord, which makes zero sense. We don’t even need to have that logical inconsistency because the Terrarian is confirmed to have killed those beings before getting his end game equipment.

I have no strong feelings on the concept of summoning/re-summoning, but I find this line of argument very convincing. It is indeed inconsistent and not necessary.

 

[Keeweed]

Very late bump, but I finally am done with my finals, so I can start threads like this up again.