𝗜𝗧𝗦 𝗨𝗟𝗧𝗥𝗔𝗞𝗜𝗟𝗟𝗜𝗡𝗚 𝗧𝗜𝗠𝗘! (𝗮𝗻 𝘂𝗹𝘁𝗿𝗮𝗸𝗶𝗹𝗹 𝗖𝗥𝗧) #1

[Swordsaint456]

First of all, what qualifies for light-speed projectiles from vsbw page

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

Things in Ultrakill reasonably fit this.

SOL reasonings
The virtues are stated to shoot beams of light

• These are shown to only travel in a straight line coming down wherever the player is
• Shown as basically instantaneous and impossible to dodge and never shown at different speeds

Now why am I bringing this up at all if the virtues don't even have a profile? Well it's for supporting evidence that V1s railgun and possibly revolver should have SOL attack speed

• The Railguns' Red and Blue variants are both stated to be instantaneous And shown to be the same speed as the virtues beams
• Revolver is instantaneous
• The red railgun uses the power of Maurice(malicious face) as its main power source which is shown to be instantaneous as well (grab coin Maurice scan here)
• These weapons are also shown to reflect off a coin,
• Acts similarly to a particle weapon which the page acknowledges. And since ultra kill takes place after 2112 it's reasonable for them to have that tech

Via virtue scaling Gabriel should also receive an SOL rating for a simple reason.
Stated to have something called the holy light

Disgrace. Humiliation. Unseemly and unwelcome at the feet of the Council. Their eyes ablaze with bitter resentment, glaring through Gabriel’s wounds of body and soul, bore outward for all to see.
Has this one abandoned the way of our creator?” “It is unworthy of its Holy Light.” “The Father’s Light is indomitable.” “This one sees fit to squander it.”
Their words resonated in Gabriel’s limbs, coursing through as lightning upon wire, a searing hiss that would strike lessers deaf and blind. The Holy Light within him, an unstoppable storm of divine fury. Insurmountable for mere Objects. This he knew.

Act I ending

Which is what virtues use to create their light structures. And Gabriel is implied to be above the virtues

Lesser angels come from human souls, which are formed into abstract shapes, making them distinct from the humanoid bodies of greater and supreme angels, who were created as such and are considered purer and placed higher on Heaven's hierarchy. Due to their past lives as humans, Virtues are often sent to complete tasks that greater angels deem below them or otherwise uninteresting, such as acting as wardens in Hell. There Virtues use heavenly fire to punish sinners who aren't acting out their punishment, to not waste Gabriel's time with minor offenses and fluctuations.

Virtues Terminal entry



Next is something a bit controversial. A possible 5-C to low 4-C upgrade.
First of all Sisyphus.

• But basically, he's stated to be able to shake the foundation of hell

Some may just say they just messed with the order in hell or how things worked. But I don't believe that to be the case. As why would his war cry disrupt the principles of hell? There's just really no backing and the way it says “the very foundations of hell” makes it seem like he shook hell itself. This at least means he shook everything above him. As if you shake the foundation of something (for example Jenga blocks) you shake at least everything above the bare minimum.

• This is supported by him being stated to have the power of the sun
• And one of the upper layers of hell is shown to have a sun (possibly many stars beyond that)

And this isn't just some random light as it's shown to heat the gold dust to extreme amounts that are capable of harming v1 (yes it is gold dust, supported by the setting being based on Dante's Inferno) the melting point of gold is 1,948°F so this gold should roughly be 1,800-1900ºF. (could be higher due to steel melting point)

According to what I found from a vsbw member shaking a star ranges from 5-C-low 4-B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_ground_acceleration#Correlation_with_the_Mercalli_scale


Magnitude lower end 2's velocity value listed on wikipedia is .001 m/s is for the velocity the ground moves for it to be perceptible to us humans.

Basically using that for the presumed velocity in this sort of feat and plugging that into the kinetic energy formula as a low end.

Using inverse square law here depends on if the feat in question is from an omnidirectional shockwave, if it isn't then here's what ya get for both, Darth Sidious has a feat like this, though I guess he was affecting red dwarf stars. Superman apparently shook our real life solar system or someshiz.

Low end for sun/star shaking:

Mass of the sun: 1.989E30 kg

Kinetic energy = 1.989E30*.5*(.001^2) = 9.945E23 joules or High 6-B

"High end" method for sun/star shaking:

Surface area of a circle = (pi)*(r^2)

Surface area of a sphere =4*(pi)*(r^2)

Distance to the sun from Earth: 149,597,870,000 meters

Surface area of the area getting affected: 4*(pi)*(149,597,870,000^2) = 2.8122938E23 m^2

Sun radius: 696,000,000 meters

Cross sectional surface area of our Sun = (pi)*( 696,000,000^2) = 1.5218377E18 m^2

Energy that would spread out from the center via inverse square law for this sorta feat: (2.8122938E23 / 1.5218377E18) * 9.945E23 = 1.8377953E29 joules or 5-C

__________________________________________________________

High end:

Distance to the star from Earth:

4.243 light years or 4.01419E16 meters

Surface area of the area getting affected: 4*(pi)*(4.01419E16^2) = 2.0249099E34 m^2

Cross sectional surface area of the star = (pi)*(110,407,590^2) = 3.8295499E16 m^2

Energy that would spread out from the center via inverse square law for this sorta feat: (2.0249099E34 /3.8295499E16) * 1.199E23 = 6.3398233E40 joules or Low 4-C

Essentially, inverse square law makes this shiz really fricking impressive once you get to cosmic distances if this law applies due to the energy dispersing.

If not, then fiction be dumb with conservation of energy and area of effect and the low end would apply regardless.

by @Mephistus

And it makes sense for layers to hold suns due to the sheer size of layers and how they work. As it's stated that hell doesn't abide by the laws of space. This explains why a layer can contain open skies and a sun. And layers are referred to as a world (yes it is canon)

and I have a few abilities I'd like to add.

v1 should get Heat resistance as it is made of some sort of metal and should be able to withstand a minimum of 1800ºF.

and possibly resurrection as the terminal end stats are canon, which would mean his deaths are canon(?)

TERMINAL DATA 01 [ENCRYPTED]
INTRODUCTION TO TERMINALS
(DRAFT! DO NOT SEND!! // todo: ADD PICTURES SO THOSE ******* SUITS DON'T FALL ASLEEP LIKE LAST TIME)

The elevator room terminals are an advanced interconnected network built for the purpose of transferring materials and tools between different areas. They are capable of transferring physical material as information across a radio signal, which other terminals can receive and use to reconstruct the sent object. The original item is lost, as it is transformed into the energy that is used to transmit the material information, and the process is quite slow due to the amount of information that physical matter holds.

An early test of a matter transfer's accuracy was a mint condition 78rpm vinyl record, which was sent from the lab to all connected terminals. The vinyl was a single of Russ Morgan Orchestra's recording of the piece Were You Foolin' (a favorite of the CRO), though the label was removed to reduce the amount of matter to be transferred.

[note: **** you tom im so ******* tired of this stupid song and having to listen to it every morning over your garbage intercom]

Soon after, the Hell exploration and excavation project was abandoned and this vinyl record remained the only matter to have been successfully transferred before connection between the surface and the terminals was lost.

The terminals now use the record to lure machines into a symbiotic relationship (For further information, see TERMINAL DATA 02: [LINK REMOVED]). However, the terminals only play short instrumental sections of the original record for undetermined reasons.

Some researchers have joked that perhaps the terminals are simply "too shy to sing", though rumors have been spreading of mechanics who, after fixing a faulty or broken terminal, said to have heard the terminal play a vocal section when only the mechanic is present with no recording equipment, making this an unverifiable claim.

END OF DATA 01. For more information, see [LINK REMOVED] and [LINK REMOVED].

P-1:Soul survivor: terminal.

TERMINAL DATA 02 [ENCRYPTED]
AN UPDATE ON TERMINALS
(NOTE: THIS IS ALL STILL UNDER INVESTIGATION!!! Do not share until we have verified all claims AND FINISHED THE DRAFT!!!! If this leaks like the last draft there won't be enough money on the entire damn planet to pay your legal fees.)

Since the previous report, more powerful communication equipment has been successfully designed and built, made possible thanks to the generous donations of [INSERT COMPANY BEING PRESENTED TO] whom we hold in high regard. With this new equipment, we have managed to re-establish a connection with some of the higher end machines that were left behind after the Hell exploration and excavation project was abruptly cancelled due to

[ERROR: sAmsGS3JTIU]

What we have discovered is truly remarkable and, IF PROVEN TRUE BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT, revolutionary to the entire robotics community:

Boredom.

The terminals, unable to move, have grown bored. While they are connected to each other and able to communicate amongst themselves, once the connection to the surface was cut, they were getting no new input, therefore stalling all communication to repetitions of already known information.

It is unknown how similar this "boredom" is to actual emotion or what has caused it, but it has lead to a symbiotic relationship with other machines. Essentially, the terminals scavenge whatever they can via their teleportation systems and trade those supplies and resources with the machines that were left behind in Hell, in exchange for entertainment.

That is, the machines record their battles for survival in Hell and the footage is graded based on its entertainment value and used as "Points" in exchange for goods and services such as new weaponry.

It seems that this relationship has become so deeply ingrained into the existence of the terminals that they have developed a social hierarchy, wherein those who collect the most entertaining battle data are considered in higher regard than those whose findings are of poorer quality.

More recently, the terminals have also collected enough data to create a simulation space which they let machines plug into what they call "The Cyber Grind", which allows the machines to simulate battles in a safe environment without the threat of being destroyed, which the terminals watch in real time as a kind of live entertainment.

These findings are truly extraordinary, and though we too find it hard to believe, all the information we can manage to gather validates these claims. If we can prove it with certainty [AND IF THIS DRAFT DOESN'T ******* LEAK AGAIN], this will cause a paradigm shift that will require re-evaluation of everything we thought we knew about blood-fueled machinery.

END OF DATA 02. For more information on the cancelled Hell exploration and excavation project, see DATA 00: [LINK REMOVED]

P-2: Wait of the World: Terminal

I have some other stuff to add and change to UltraKill but I don't want this to be Too cluttered so ill leave it at this. but conclusion

V1: SOL attack speed with the revolver and Railgun, Heat resistance, (maybe possibly) resurrection. 5-C possibly low 4-C
V2: SOL attack speed with the revolver, heat resistance (higher dura) 5-C possibly low 4-C
Gabriel: 5-C possibly low 4-C SOL attack speed
Prime Sisyphus: 5-C possibly low 4-C. (maybe add a possibly SOL rating?)
prime minos: same as Prime Sisyphus
ferryman: same as the primes(?)

Agree: @Minos_the_Judge (disagrees with shaking of hell Neutral on resurrection) @Lord_Farquaad69420
Disagree: @Armorchompy @DMUA @CrimsonStarFallen @Shmooply
neutral:

 

[Swordsaint456]

the thing I'm most unsure about is mainly resurrection but who knows i may have a point

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

I agree with speed. Virtues DEFINITELY attack with light, and V1 can actually bypass that.

You could also say that he outperforms Sisyphus's light attacks, which are based on solar rays. It is worth saying that absolutely the entire official ultrakill discord server believes that Minos and Sisyphus move at the speed of light, but unfortunately we cannot use this unless Hakita said so.

By the way, I’ll add. In addition, Fleash Prison's eye minions fire the same type of instant beams as Sentinels, which create scattered effect associated with light beams. Also, a little later I will do a couple of superluminal calculations related to Minos, you have never seen this before, I assure you, you will like it. I need time.


I do not agree with the shaking of the foundations of Hell.

The thing is that this would make Sisyphus 2-C, which is too much (Outlier). The God declared by Hakita as the creator of the world can no longer recreate Hell, and as Hakita said, this is one of the reasons why the God in Ultrakill is not Almighty. That is, Hell has probably surpassed God as a separate entity.

Found at the end of [ 4-S: CLASH OF THE BRANDICOOT ].

UNCOUNTABLE CYCLES OF CREATION WASTED
UNCOUNTABLE FORMULAS FOR A MIND WITHOUT
FREE WILL WASTED
DAMNED IS MAN FOR FAILING TO FOLLOW MY
RULE, MY WORD, MY LAW
DAMNED TO AN ETERNITY OF TORTURE AND
SUFFERING,
THE WAILING AND THE GNASHING OF TEETH
I HAVE CREATED HELL . . .

. . . And now I can no longer unmake it

We cannot scale Sisyphus to God even if it is downscaling.

Secondly, Jakita probably means the entire cosmology of Ultrakill by the word "World", because the entire game closes after that.

However, given that Hakita says that each layer contains its own sky, he probably means that each layer is regarded as a separate universe, because Hakita himself is a very literal person and he clearly regards the sky as our sky.

In addition, Hakita does not deny that each layer is a separate universe, although he says that it is all much more complicated and works outside of these laws of logic.

Sun Power is generally used as solar energy per second (High 6-A), but this is very vague.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

I've collected an incredible amount of screenshots of Hakita, much more than exist in the official Hakita screenshots folder, so I'll be making a very huge СTR about Ultrakill soon.

And the scaling will be slightly revised.

 

[Swordsaint456]

I've collected an incredible amount of screenshots of Hakita, much more than exist in the official Hakita screenshots folder, so I'll be making a very huge СTR about Ultrakill soon.

i have it aswell dw

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

i have it aswell dw

Yes, but we think about different things.

Then we can work together.

 

[Swordsaint456]

I agree with speed. Virtues DEFINITELY attack with light, and V1 can actually bypass that.

how so? from what i saw it was just aim dodging. instead of the beam itself

You could also say that he outperforms Sisyphus's light attacks, which are based on solar rays.

ill look into that and add if its true

I do not agree with the shaking of the foundations of Hell.

The thing is that this would make Sisyphus 2-C, which is too much (Outlier). The God declared by Hakita as the creator of the world can no longer recreate Hell, and as Hakita said, this is one of the reasons why the God in Ultrakill is not Almighty. That is, Hell has probably surpassed God as a separate entity.

Found at the end of [ 4-S: CLASH OF THE BRANDICOOT ].

UNCOUNTABLE CYCLES OF CREATION WASTED
UNCOUNTABLE FORMULAS FOR A MIND WITHOUT
FREE WILL WASTED
DAMNED IS MAN FOR FAILING TO FOLLOW MY
RULE, MY WORD, MY LAW
DAMNED TO AN ETERNITY OF TORTURE AND
SUFFERING,
THE WAILING AND THE GNASHING OF TEETH
I HAVE CREATED HELL . . .

. . . And now I can no longer unmake it
Click to expand...

We cannot scale Sisyphus to God even if it is downscaling.

it wouldnt scale sisyphus to the entirenty of hell. only certain layers. and i wouldnt say hell is 2-C (though maybe) and i do plan on oppening a profile for hell. do you have discord so i could contribute to your CRT? but i think a rating of high 6-A to 5-C would make sence

 

[Swordsaint456]

Yes, but we think about different things.

Then we can work together.

k. btw do you agree with everything else(besides the shaking of hell)

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

how so? from what i saw it was just aim dodging. instead of the beam itself

I'll make a video of this later, but V1 is actually able to dash out of the way of this.

k. btw do you agree with everything else(besides the shaking of hell)

I'm neutral for resurrections.

Some people believe that game features like resurrection, level selection, etc. are canon because at the beginning of the game, V1 customized his interface by touching game-related parameters. And the fact is that essentially this is the same case as with terminals. If we consider death to be canon as an assessment for terminals, then we should also consider setting the graphics and difficulty level of the game from V1 at the beginning of the game to be canon.

I don't know how to look at this. To some extent this is true, but in lore it is strange and hardly makes sense.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

how so? from what i saw it was just aim dodging. instead of the beam itself


ill look into that and add if its true



it wouldnt scale sisyphus to the entirenty of hell. only certain layers. and i wouldnt say hell is 2-C (though maybe) and i do plan on oppening a profile for hell. do you have discord so i could contribute to your CRT? but i think a rating of high 6-A to 5-C would make sence

Yes, i have discord. But its secret, so i will delete a link soon. Add me, [DATA EXPUNGED]. I will soon make possibly High 6-A calculaton for Minos Corpse, so we will have Low-End for AP of Universe.

 

[Swordsaint456]

I'll make a video of this later, but V1 is actually able to dash out of the way of this.

if it doesnt include a calc i could calc it

 

[Swordsaint456]

and do you have anyone else that could give input?

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

if it doesnt include a calc i could calc it

Okay.

and do you have anyone else that could give input?

I haven't interacted much with ultrakill fans on this forum.


Do you add me in discord?

 

[Swordsaint456]

Do you add me in discord?

ill have to do it later. but i saved it so you can delete it if you want

mine is lechop. just incase i lose it for whatever reason

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I agree btw

 

[Swordsaint456]

w

 

[Swordsaint456]

bump

 

[Armorchompy]

• These are shown to only travel in a straight line coming down wherever the player is
• Shown as basically instantaneous and impossible to dodge and never shown at different speeds

These aren't really enough to qualify for SoL at all, to simplify you gotta hit 2/3 of the five requirements listed here, but what you listed is just a lack of anti-feats.

Now why am I bringing this up at all if the virtues don't even have a profile? Well it's for supporting evidence that V1s railgun and possibly revolver should have SOL attack speed

• The Railguns' Red and Blue variants are both stated to be instantaneous And shown to be the same speed as the virtues beams
• Revolver is instantaneous
• The red railgun uses the power of Maurice(malicious face) as its main power source which is shown to be instantaneous as well (grab coin Maurice scan here)
• These weapons are also shown to reflect off a coin,
• Acts similarly to a particle weapon which the page acknowledges. And since ultra kill takes place after 2112 it's reasonable for them to have that tech

As you said the revolver and railgun alike are explained to work like particle weapons which would require them to be under SoL, I don't think "both of these projectiles are hitscan" is evidence of them being both the same speed either.

Next is something a bit controversial. A possible 5-C to low 4-C upgrade.
First of all Sisyphus.

• But basically, he's stated to be able to shake the foundation of hell

This is just clearly not literal or an AP feat but just a metaphor for his revolt having long-lasting effects and great scope

This is supported by him being stated to have the power of the sun

Yeah, the tiny sun in his head.

and possibly resurrection as the terminal end stats are canon, which would mean his deaths are canon(?)

No, just because an object is canon doesn't mean every aspect of them is canon

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

These aren't really enough to qualify for SoL at all, to simplify you gotta hit 2/3 of the five requirements listed here, but what you listed is just a lack of anti-feats.

In fact, these attacks are definitely light speed.

This attack has visually absolutely instantaneous speed, it moves in a straight line, and also, what is important, it is intangible and works like real light (you can walk through it), the type of damage itself is considered temperature, not impact. It has been described as a punishing light from the sky, the angels in ULTRAKILL are directly connected to the sacred light and therefore it is not surprising that they possess the manipulation of light.

As you said the revolver and railgun alike are explained to work like particle weapons which would require them to be under SoL, I don't think "both of these projectiles are hitscan" is evidence of them being both the same speed either.

In fact, revolvers and other instant weapons are capable of repeating the feat of Minos with instant movement to any distance, far surpassing the High Hypersonic Missile. In the worst case, the speed of such a feat is taken to be 60% of the speed of light. However, V1's weapons are likely faster than V1 himself (He is able to react to them using coins, but still likely scales significantly below them, however, he may be downscaled from them).


Plus, if it's important, their plot speed could be COMPLETELY justified as near-light speed. The fact is that the player's revolvers do not fire real cartridges. It uses microscopic projectiles instead of bullets. To understand, it was stated that all he had to do was rub his finger over his pistol to collect quite a bit of metal dust from ONE fight with robots on the tip of his finger in order to use this metal dust from his finger as ammunition. Moreover, it is said that this will be enough for him to SHOOT FOR TWO WEEKS WITHOUT A BREAK FROM A PISTOL. I think we understand that the size of one “bullet” would be molecular or smaller, and his weapons are capable, at their worst, of smashing stone walls and throwing heavy creatures over vast distances.

I think we understand that if we used KE, we would get >99% of the speed of light. However, this is calc stacking. However, particles can already play the role of an argument in favor of the speed of light. It's just that all these things with microscopic projectiles can serve as an incredibly strong additional argument.

 

[Swordsaint456]

These aren't really enough to qualify for SoL at all, to simplify you gotta hit 2/3 of the five requirements listed here, but what you listed is just a lack of anti-feats.

1. beam is consistently called light speed
2. made of light supported by angles having the power of the holy light, which allows Gabriel to create light constructs
3. travels in a straight line
4. it does have a realistic source of light, aka the holy light which allows Gabriel to create light constructs

As you said the revolver and railgun alike are explained to work like particle weapons which would require them to be under SoL

how does the weapons being particle weaponry mean they must be under the speed of light? as particle weaponry would include protons which can be speed of light

I don't think "both of these projectiles are hitscan" is evidence of them being both the same speed either.

considering light cant move at different speeds its evidence to support my claim.

This is just clearly not literal or an AP feat but just a metaphor for his revolt having long-lasting effects and great scope

can you please prove this? or even attack my argument? i already explained why this would be a literal AP feat and why it doesn't make sense for it to be metaphorical.

Yeah, the tiny sun in his head.

I mean it being in his head doesn't matter. it specifically stated that it empowers his attacks

- The radiant power of the
sun makes Sisyphus
explosive attacks very difficult to avoid,

No, just because an object is canon doesn't mean every aspect of them is canon

what? it specifically explains how these aspects of the end results are canon, which would obviously include deaths.

It is unknown how similar this "boredom" is to actual emotion or what has caused it, but it has lead to a symbiotic relationship with other machines. Essentially, the terminals scavenge whatever they can via their teleportation systems and trade those supplies and resources with the machines that were left behind in Hell, in exchange for entertainment.

That is, the machines record their battles for survival in Hell and the footage is graded based on its entertainment value and used as "Points" in exchange for goods and services such as new weaponry.

 

[Swordsaint456]

at the very least we should be getting relativistic speeds for the characters and v1/v2's weapons. (relavalistic characters because of this calc)

 

[Armorchompy]

1. beam is consistently called light speed
2. made of light supported by angles having the power of the holy light, which allows Gabriel to create light constructs
3. travels in a straight line
4. it does have a realistic source of light, aka the holy light which allows Gabriel to create light constructs

In fact, these attacks are definitely light speed.

This attack has visually absolutely instantaneous speed, it moves in a straight line, and also, what is important, it is intangible and works like real light (you can walk through it), the type of damage itself is considered temperature, not impact. It has been described as a punishing light from the sky, the angels in ULTRAKILL are directly connected to the sacred light and therefore it is not surprising that they possess the manipulation of light.

Again, here's the requirements.

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or... - NO
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror. - NO (Being intangible is not enough)
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources. - NO
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source. - YES
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera. - NO

And that is that.

In fact, revolvers and other instant weapons are capable of repeating the feat of Minos with instant movement to any distance, far surpassing the High Hypersonic Missile. In the worst case, the speed of such a feat is taken to be 60% of the speed of light.

Seems a bit silly to say the characters are thousands of times faster than the shotgun/rocket launcher, which are weapons that they use in combat against one another (canonically, given that it's what V2 jumps you with). Using the sandbox is kinda sketchy too given that Minos is never canonically fought in anything as big as that.

Also the accepted speed of the rocket launcher is

Plus, if it's important, their plot speed could be COMPLETELY justified as near-light speed. The fact is that the player's revolvers do not fire real cartridges. It uses microscopic projectiles instead of bullets. To understand, it was stated that all he had to do was rub his finger over his pistol to collect quite a bit of metal dust from ONE fight with robots on the tip of his finger in order to use this metal dust from his finger as ammunition. Moreover, it is said that this will be enough for him to SHOOT FOR TWO WEEKS WITHOUT A BREAK FROM A PISTOL. I think we understand that the size of one “bullet” would be molecular or smaller, and his weapons are capable, at their worst, of smashing stone walls and throwing heavy creatures over vast distances.

I think we understand that if we used KE, we would get >99% of the speed of light. However, this is calc stacking. However, particles can already play the role of an argument in favor of the speed of light. It's just that all these things with microscopic projectiles can serve as an incredibly strong additional argument.

And nobody ever reacts to the pistol shots, so that is pointless.

considering light cant move at different speeds its evidence to support my claim.

A bullet and light will move at the same speed for you because you cannot perceive either, that means nothing in regards to their relative speed.

can you please prove this? or even attack my argument? i already explained why this would be a literal AP feat and why it doesn't make sense for it to be metaphorical.

You made an argument, I don't necessarily have to find it convincing. You're taking something too literally and addressing the arguments by taking it even more literally, my point is that it isn't literal to begin with.

I mean it being in his head doesn't matter. it specifically stated that it empowers his attacks

Yes, and it's small, which means it would not carry the power of the actual sun.

what? it specifically explains how these aspects of the end results are canon, which would obviously include deaths.

I find that to be pretty weak evidence when we're talking about a character that explicitly requires an external factor (blood) to heal itself from much lesser damage.

 

[Swordsaint456]

1. beam is consistently called light speed
2. made of light supported by angles having the power of the holy light, which allows Gabriel to create light constructs
3. travels in a straight line
4. it does have a realistic source of light, aka the holy light which allows Gabriel to create light constructs

In fact, these attacks are definitely light speed.

This attack has visually absolutely instantaneous speed, it moves in a straight line, and also, what is important, it is intangible and works like real light (you can walk through it), the type of damage itself is considered temperature, not impact. It has been described as a punishing light from the sky, the angels in ULTRAKILL are directly connected to the sacred light and therefore it is not surprising that they possess the manipulation of light.

Again, here's the requirements.

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or... - NO
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror. - NO
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources. - NO
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source. - YES
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera. - NO

bro what? i already explained otherwise

• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources. - NO

if its made out of light its logically light speed, backed up by it being instant. the simplest answer is that it IS light speed.

• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera. - NO

i literally explained that it WOULD come from a realistic source of light, aka the divine or holy light which allows whoever has it to create light constructs and is even listed on Gabriel's page.

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or... - NO
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror. - NO
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources. - YES
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source. - YES
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera. - YES

and it going in a straight line furthers its sol status.

Seems a bit silly to say the characters are thousands of times faster than the shotgun/rocket launcher, which are weapons that they use in combat against one another (canonically, given that it's what V1 jumps you with).

There are different variations of speeds. just like how Doom Slayer has immeasurable speed but still uses guns, and many other examples like this. as the speed feat should only be combat speed instead of travel speed

And nobody ever reacts to the pistol shots, so that is pointless.

what? no. its called having a certain speed with weaponry. its certainly NOT pointless

A bullet and light will move at the same speed for you because you cannot perceive either, that means nothing in regards to their relative speed.

these are different cases. as for a bullet we know our perception speed and same with V1 who at minimum has massivly hyper sonic perception speeds iirc. so we know the beam> that so the gun has to be way faster then v1s perception and we know he cant really perceive LS attacks and seeing how particle weaponry can be SOL, among other things its reasonable to assume its SOL.

You made an argument, I don't necessarily have to find it convincing. You're taking something too literally and addressing the arguments by taking it even more literally, my point is that it isn't literal to begin with.

and you didnt even elaborate as to why it wouldnt be litteral. you basically just said Nuh uh to why it would be litteral.

Yes, and it's small, which means it would not carry the power of the actual sun.

we dont know if it is actually smaller considering the fact that things in hell dont actually abide by the rules of space, so something as small as a houce could fit the sun.

I find that to be pretty weak evidence when we're talking about a character that explicitly requires an external factor (blood) to heal itself from much lesser damage.

why does V1 needing blood to heal itself matter to resurection? and why does that make my argument and evidence weaker.

 

[Armorchompy]

bro what? i already explained otherwise

if its made out of light its logically light speed, backed up by it being instant. the simplest answer is that it IS light speed.

If that was the assumption the "stated to be light" and "lightspeed" statements would be the same- the truth is that most writers just don't care about that, and therefore it isn't.

i literally explained that it WOULD come from a realistic source of light, aka the divine or holy light which allows whoever has it to create light constructs and is even listed on Gabriel's page.

Ah yes, the most realistic source of light, completely unverifiable magic. The requirement asks for something that we know emits light IRL, not something that is said to emit light in verse, otherwise there would be absolutely no point to it.

There are different variations of speeds. just like how Doom Slayer has immeasurable speed but still uses guns, and many other examples like this. as the speed feat should only be combat speed instead of travel speed

No there aren't. If a gun is effective in combat against someone it's not thousands of times slower than it, there is literally no way that someone would be threatened by it otherwise. Not to mention V1's burst movement speed scales to his combat speed.

what? no. its called having a certain speed with weaponry. its certainly NOT pointless

Claiming it to be support for their speed is pointless.

these are different cases. as for a bullet we know our perception speed and same with V1 who at minimum has massivly hyper sonic perception speeds iirc. so we know the beam> that so the gun has to be way faster then v1s perception and we know he cant really perceive LS attacks and seeing how particle weaponry can be SOL, among other things its reasonable to assume its SOL.

No it isn't, it's a completely blind assumption done for the sake of rating something higher that I'm not going to entertain from this point on. You have to prove that they are, not say that they might be.

and you didnt even elaborate as to why it wouldnt be litteral. you basically just said Nuh uh to why it would be litteral.

I've already explained what the metaphor means, we see Greed and it is not in the state of destruction that would be caused by being in the middle of a tier 4 feat, you're making an assumption to say it's literal to begin with and you have absolutely no grounds to stand on for it.

we dont know if it is actually smaller considering the fact that things in hell dont actually abide by the rules of space, so something as small as a houce could fit the sun.

We don't know that it's the normal size either and we have no reason to assume it is, the fuck kinda argument is that?

why does V1 needing blood to heal itself matter to resurection? and why does that make my argument and evidence weaker.

Because if it can't heal from minor damage without blood it probably can't heal from complete destruction without it. Like this completely breaks the game's worldbuilding, the whole point behind V1's creation is that it would be a robot capable of healing itself on the battlefield, that would be a pretty pointless thing to develop if there was also the technology to make them resurrect infinitely. There's also V2 who is an upgrade of V1 and has been confirmed to be permanently dead.

 

[DMUA]

just like how Doom Slayer has immeasurable speed but still uses guns, and many other examples like this

The funniest thing is that's the physically worst example you could pull out due the sheer length of time we argued that the Doomslayer just doesn't have his weapons actually scale to him due to how high end his physicals were in the 2016 game

Anyways I agree with Armorchompy, I just don't think any of this evidence is as strong as it needs to be for upgrades like this

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

SOL reasonings
The virtues are stated to shoot beams of light

• These are shown to only travel in a straight line coming down wherever the player is
• Shown as basically instantaneous and impossible to dodge and never shown at different speeds

Now why am I bringing this up at all if the virtues don't even have a profile? Well it's for supporting evidence that V1s railgun and possibly revolver should have SOL attack speed

• The Railguns' Red and Blue variants are both stated to be instantaneous And shown to be the same speed as the virtues beams
• Revolver is instantaneous
• The red railgun uses the power of Maurice(malicious face) as its main power source which is shown to be instantaneous as well (grab coin Maurice scan here)
• These weapons are also shown to reflect off a coin,
• Acts similarly to a particle weapon which the page acknowledges. And since ultra kill takes place after 2112 it's reasonable for them to have that tech

None of this means much. This doesn't apply for the actual number of requirements for light speed for one, reflecting off of a coin doesn't mean much because V1 can get 100 gazillion things to ricochet off a coin (a coin isn't even a reflective surface the way mirrors are anyway????) and them being particle weaponry, specifically ones with such small barrels, is an anti-feat for SoL.

Via virtue scaling Gabriel should also receive an SOL rating for a simple reason.
Stated to have something called the holy light

Gabriel's Holy Light is what empowers and fuels his life-force. He doesn't shoot light or lasers or anything.

Some may just say they just messed with the order in hell or how things worked. But I don't believe that to be the case. As why would his war cry disrupt the principles of hell? There's just really no backing and the way it says “the very foundations of hell” makes it seem like he shook hell itself. This at least means he shook everything above him. As if you shake the foundation of something (for example Jenga blocks) you shake at least everything above the bare minimum.

Clearly flowery language.

This is supported by him being stated to have the power of the sun

His sun is very small

v1 should get Heat resistance as it is made of some sort of metal and should be able to withstand a minimum of 1800ºF.

Sure

In fact, revolvers and other instant weapons are capable of repeating the feat of Minos with instant movement to any distance, far surpassing the High Hypersonic Missile. In the worst case, the speed of such a feat is taken to be 60% of the speed of light. However, V1's weapons are likely faster than V1 himself (He is able to react to them using coins, but still likely scales significantly below them, however, he may be downscaled from them).

So

You're saying V1's shotgun and missile at HHS, using that to scale the revolver to Rel+, saying he downscales into Rel+... and then saying the weapons are faster than V1 himself? That would include the same HHS shotgun and missile. This is just complete nonsense lol.

And nobody ever reacts to the pistol shots, so that is pointless.

You can actually parry V2's revolver shots, it's probably not really speed shit tho, more skill than anything.

we dont know if it is actually smaller considering the fact that things in hell dont actually abide by the rules of space, so something as small as a houce could fit the sun.

Are you saying Sisyphus is several times bigger than the sun??????????????

Either way, agree wtih Armor here.

 

[Shmooply]

Chomp basically said everything I was gonna say, so I agree with his points.

 

[Swordsaint456]

jesus christ 3 peeps appeared. aight gimme a while to refute may refute tomorrow or later today. idk

 

[Roachman40]

definitely agree with armorchompy here