TenSura LN Major Revision - Monotheistic God (Atempt 2)

[Verlice_tempest]

Velda and iva are avatars of an all encompassing one bcs well it still existed as an all encompassing one NO it's essence didn't split into velda and ivarage rather they are manifestation of it
The plot point was about the will

All-encompassing's/All-One, whatever you call it, is now definitely split into two parts as Veldanava and Ivaraj

They are avatar of god, the other avatar is velda, it's not split in two much like a hypostasis

 

[Verlice_tempest]

If by that you mean qualitatively different constructs, na, they do exist
Like the real world and Diablo's imaginary world.

Can imaginary space be taken as that qualitatively lower construct too?[ig yea]

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Can imaginary space be taken as that qualitatively lower construct too?[ig yea]

not really, since it's infinity with respect to worlds

 

[BoastJr]

Following but goodluck on your thread. I don't think my opinion matters anyways so I'll let the more knowledgable people discuss this

 

[Bernkastelll]

I agree

 

[Quaserbreak]

Neutral, leaning towards agreeing for H-1A but I need clarifications.

Why is Ramiris an Avatar of God?

Ramiris as an Avatar hinges on proof that the Great Holy Spirit or it's blessing which she channels is God’s essence. Because I'm pretty sure her role could just denote authority over spirits, not status as an Avatar like Ivaraje or Veldanava.

Also I believe tier 0 needs God’s non-duality to transcend the verse (reality/fiction, etc.), not just encompass them right? If God exist as their sum, High 1-A fits better.

 

[Justanormalvinlandguy]

Also I believe tier 0 needs God’s non-duality to transcend the verse (reality/fiction, etc.), not just encompass them right? If God exist as their sum, High 1-A fits better.

idk about what you mean in "verse" since i misinterpreting this, and yes, it needs non duality to transcend such as higher ontology (reality) and lower reality (fiction), reality/higher and fiction/lower is a form of duality, and god beyond this distinction via all encompassing completeness, also all encompassing in divinity entails superiority, god is beyond all things indicating that god is transcendent to all things including distinctions.

this is my opinion only, and it's better if astral would answer your question

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Neutral, leaning towards agreeing for H-1A but I need clarifications.

Why is Ramiris an Avatar of God?

Ramiris as an Avatar hinges on proof that the Great Holy Spirit or it's blessing which she channels is God’s essence. Because I'm pretty sure her role could just denote authority over spirits, not status as an Avatar like Ivaraje or Veldanava.

Because of her role as the "Guide to the Holy One"
You can take it as more like an apostle. However, Ramiris has this similarity in both Ln and WN, whereas in WN she was also called the "child of the holy spirit", thus why I thought if fuse didn't change anything about her throughout the two continuities, that "Guide to the Holy One" might be implying the same thing in as WN.

Also I believe tier 0 needs God’s non-duality to transcend the verse (reality/fiction, etc.), not just encompass them right? If God exist as their sum, High 1-A fits better.

The sum is more so the perfect creation of the Godhead (True form of true dragons). God doesn't just encompass everything, it also lacks all qualities in the sense of being Nirvana, only "reachable" by dissolution rather then sum, this why, added the fact that is the "truth of the world to which all illusions are reduced to".

By that notion, it also transcends those distinctions.

 

[Quaserbreak]

Because of her role as the "Guide to the Holy One"

The "holy ones" in the context from the full scan are referring to the Heroes who are counterparts of demon lords not God

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

The "holy ones" in the context from the full scan are referring to the Heroes who are counterparts of demon lords not God

Its the "Guide of the Holy One", mate, not "for the holy ones"
Th full line is:

‘Yeah. At the same time as being Demon Lord, I am also the guide of the Sacred One. I am also the Fairy of the Labyrinth and the Queen of the Elemental Spirits. I am also responsible for bestowing the blessings of the Holy Spirit on the heroes, just as I did with Leon. So you can rest assured. I am fair, you know. I really am! I am the one who preserves the balance in the world!’

Sacred is same as Holy The term "Heroes" have a unique kanji in tensura, 勇者, which also translates to "Brave" or "Hero". The one used for Holy One/Sacred One is "聖なる者の導"="Guide of the Holy One"

So no, that's not referring to Heroes
Plus, the scan is talking about "Blessing of the holy spirit", which is also talked about here:

'Nonsense! If that were the case, it would be comparable to the sacred magic that the Holy Church of the West keeps secret, wouldn't it? Is it not the sacred magic of rebirth that can be achieved through a contract with the Holy Spirit? This magic is a divine miracle that can only be performed by a limited number of bishops and above!'

Contract refers to blessing/protection. And for what is the Holy Spirit:

To God, I pray, and I desire the power of the Holy Spirit, hear my prayer...In the heat of his emotions, Adalman begins to chant his magic.

So yeah, Ramiris is the legitimate apostle of the great holy spirit.

Here are all the scans and their raws.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

I agree with the general scheme, but not with Ramiris.

From my point of view it is extremely speculative, and you don't even need to be an avatar to fulfill the role of apostle that Ramiris has.

We could simply give her a level 0 blessing hax.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

From my point of view it is extremely speculative, and you don't even need to be an avatar to fulfill the role of apostle that Ramiris has.

I thought we can treat apostle and avatar the same thing when it comes to tier 0, since both are ultimately agents for the tier 0 to interact with and exert power in the world in a normal way.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

I thought we can treat apostle and avatar the same thing when it comes to tier 0, since both are ultimately agents for the tier 0 to interact with and exert power in the world in a normal way.

For wiki indexing purposes I don't think it is appropriate, the avatar should have a level 0 key.

An apostle should have only Hax of this level. In this case Blessing Hax.

Given that the means and way in which level 0 interacts with reality is very different for the case of Ramiris and Veldanava.

 

[Phoenks]

Hello, I'd like to pose some questions:

1. How does Michael being absorbed into Rimuru, and thus feeling as though he is being returned to the world/Veldanava, relate to the "All Encompassing Oneness" still being a thing?

And, further, do you have any other scans to support the argument that there still is some overarching Oneness without division?

At the current moment, I don't really believe that Veldanava has this "true state." To me, the scans read more that he literally did just dissolve himself into a more interesting existence. And his avatar state is all that remains at the moment.

2. They wanted to bring back the "Omniscient, Omnipotence" version of Veld. How exactly is it they planned to do that?

I ask because this is a pretty obtuse thing to say especially combined with the previous questions I have. It again supports the notion that Veldanava is completely dissolved from his previous Oneness that used to be.

I again don't think the Rimuru absorption scan provides sufficient evidence.

3. You are trying to argue for High 1-A? Do you mean High 1-A+?

I do not understand how it could be High 1-A when there is not an established 1-A hierarchy in the first place which this transcends.