Temari Upgrade

[Apollonir.Scale]

AP

Temari is said to be the best Fuuton user in the Shikamaru Hiden novel. This should put her at least above Kahyo. Kahyo can fight Hokage Kakashi. Kahyo humiliated the 4th Raikage in a training match. Since I haven't read the novel ''Kakashi Hiden: Lightning in the Icy Sky'', I'm sharing this from the Wiki article. If someone who has read this novel or at least knows where we can find it can post the scans? If CRT is accepted, it would be better to add an Imgur link to Temari's profile with the novel scan directly instead of a link from Narutowiki. I don't think links to other wikis are allowed.

Temari Fuuton Ap>Kahyo~Hokage Kakashi Fuuton Ap=At most 5-C

This is only for the Ap of Fuuton techniques. Physical Ap and Durability will not get the At most 5-C rating.

Another scaling is through Darui. Darui is also a Fuuton user and Shikamaru knows Darui. Of course Darui doesn't use Fuuton but rather his own kekei genkai Storm Relase. However, the Low 5-B rating on his profile is not only for Storm Relase. Temari's Fuuton techniques can go up to Low 5-B. Gaara is also at this level and is also a Fuuton user. Like Darui, he uses his own kekei genkai rather than Fuuton. The reason I didn't give Gaara as an example is because Gaara is Low 5-B thanks to Sand and his Sand techniques are counted as Magnet Relase, not just Fuuton.

If you do not accept Tier 5 Fuuton, we can give Temari 6-C Fuuton Ap over Onoki, Orochimaru, Konohamaru and Boruto. Since this novel takes place in the Blank Period period, Boruto and Konohamaru may not be included. But Onoki and Orochimaru also had 6-C Ap in Shippuuden, so indirectly their Fuuton techniques should also have 6-C Ap.

If we include Bijuu, there is Kurama, but he only has Fuuton in the Anime. I am thinking of making a CRT about making Shippuuden Anime Canon, like Boruto Anime canon CRT. If I open this up in the future, maybe Temari Fuuton Ap>Kurama Fuuton Ap>Kurama Physical Ap=High 6-B. But yes, bijuu like Kurama may not be included in Shikamaru's comparison.

SPEED

I know this will be a very Chaos filled discussion. In this wiki, Mifune's technique with Kyuubi Chakra is rated as Speed of Light. Mifune, Temari, Gyuki and Hyuga Clan members attack. Mifune and Temari's attacks are more forward. Even if Speed of Light doesn't get Attack Speed from here, he should at least get Sub-Relativistic Attack Speed from Gyuki.

 

[KaydeeX]

the scan uses past tense, which could have meant during the 4gnw or any instance during the blank period.

 

[Testarossa002]

Some issues with Part 1
1. Kakashi Hiden takes place barely a year after the 4th Ninja War. Naruto still hadn't gotten his prosthetic arm, and more importantly, Kakashi hadn't assumed the Hokage position (he was already named. Was just stalling) As a result, there's no reason to scale him to feats done by a version of him that was around 14 years older. At best, you could scale him to the whole Kido stuff
2. Kahyo never actually used a Wind Style jutsu on its own. Just Ice Release.
3. Even if she did use Wind Style, the statement itself isn't solid. It says she's probably the best Wind User in the Shinobi world.
3.1 Shikamaru, while smart, isn't omniscient. He doesn't know the capabilities of every ninja currently existing. Even more so in the case of Kahyo, who was a rogue ninja.
3.2 It says she's the best. Which seems to be a statement of skill rather than sheer power.
3.3 The statement itself isn't a solid assertion.
3.4 If we blindly take the statement, it would scale Temari above Naruto (who's an actual Fuuton user) which is obviously not true
4. Even if everything in point 3 were true and Temari does scale above Kahyo, it doesn't do anything for Temari as Kahyo "humiliated" Ay by freezing his beards. Not that she damaged him in any way. A half power Ay at that

According to the people there to witness the scene, not only did the Raikage’s iron fists dig out several new holes in the wall of the castle, but in a display unsuited to his age, he had even launched his Lariat. Naturally, no one thought the Raikage was putting his full strength into the fight. But even assuming he was only using half his strength, everyone to a person said that no ordinary ninja could fight as gracefully as Kahyo had.
She dodged the Raikage’s attacks and dove at her opponent. And then, before the Raikage’s face, she snapped her fingers.
That was all.
The Raikage’s beard froze.
“Whawhawhat, when did you…” “Excuse me, Lord Raikage.” Kahyo smiled brightly before the Raikage’s wide-open eyes. “I’ve ruined your wonderful beard.”
The contest ended with no injury to either, although Raikage did lose the beard he was so proud of and was mercilessly laughed at behind closed doors by the people of Kumogakure.

Nice speed feat though.
With all these in mind, I heavily disagree with Part 1
I have no opinion on Part 2

 

[Nierre]

Temari is said to be the best Fuuton user in the Shikamaru Hiden novel. This should put her at least above Kahyo. Kahyo can fight Hokage Kakashi. Kahyo humiliated the 4th Raikage in a training match. Since I haven't read the novel ''Kakashi Hiden: Lightning in the Icy Sky'', I'm sharing this from the Wiki article. If someone who has read this novel or at least knows where we can find it can post the scans? If CRT is accepted, it would be better to add an Imgur link to Temari's profile with the novel scan directly instead of a link from Narutowiki. I don't think links to other wikis are allowed.

I read it. Kahyo doesn't use Wind Release, she only uses Ice Release. When she fought Kakashi she only used Ice Release so I disagree with this.

Another scaling is through Darui. Darui is also a Fuuton user and Shikamaru knows Darui. Of course Darui doesn't use Fuuton but rather his own kekei genkai Storm Relase. However, the Low 5-B rating on his profile is not only for Storm Relase.

I also disagree. We've never seen him use Wind Release so I'm hesitant on using him as basis for Temari. For all we know his Wind Release could be non-lethal, like Boruto's. Boruto's Wind Style Jutsu Breakthrough doesn't do any damage except blow people away, so Darui could have a non lethal Wind Style Jutsu and Temari could still be a stronger Wind Styler user than him.

If you do not accept Tier 5 Fuuton, we can give Temari 6-C Fuuton Ap over Onoki, Orochimaru, Konohamaru and Boruto. Since this novel takes place in the Blank Period period, Boruto and Konohamaru may not be included. But Onoki and Orochimaru also had 6-C Ap in Shippuuden, so indirectly their Fuuton techniques should also have 6-C Ap.

Disagree with scaling above Onoki for the same reasons as Darui, but Orochimaru is fine. He's actually used Great Breakthrough in the Forest of Death against Team 7 which damaged Naruto and even uprooted trees.

6-C with Fuuton is fine with me.





EDIT: The statement actually says the best Fuuton user not the strongest, she could (would) be best because of how versatile she is with Fuuton. and TBH she probably has the most Fuuton abilities in the whole manga(?). She specializes in Wind Style so it makes sense for her to be the best at using it, even if she's not the strongest. So I disagree with this.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Doesn't the best expression sometimes mean the strongest? I think the reason for being the best must be power.

It seems like Naruto had similar expressions.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Is there evidence this kakyo person uses the same fuuton attacks for her scaling?



As for speed, holy cook I agree with speed of light attack speed

 

[Nierre]

Doesn't the best expression sometimes mean the strongest? I think the reason for being the best must be power.

It seems like Naruto had similar expressions.

Not inherently. We know that she's the most varied and her kit relies on Fuuton more than anyone in the show, she's incredibly gifted at it and she's praised at being the best. She's never outright stated to be the strongest Fuuton user outside of in the Allied Shinobi Forces, and she even had to tag team with other no name ninjas to harm the Edo Raikage, which makes me think.. yeah she probably doesn't scale to Prime Orochimaru of all people lol.

Is there evidence this kakyo person uses the same fuuton attacks for her scaling?

Nah she doesn't at all. Just Ice Release.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Doesn't the best expression sometimes mean the strongest? I think the reason for being the best must be power.

It seems like Naruto had similar expressions.

best fuuton user means more potent than anyone else

whether it is in regards to speed or ap or hax is to be determined, if a person whos abilities are specifically targetting ap it would be safe to say temari>them

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Temari is said to be the best Fuuton user in the Shikamaru Hiden novel. This should put her at least above Kahyo. Kahyo can fight Hokage Kakashi. Kahyo humiliated the 4th Raikage in a training match. Since I haven't read the novel ''Kakashi Hiden: Lightning in the Icy Sky'', I'm sharing this from the Wiki article. If someone who has read this novel or at least knows where we can find it can post the scans? If CRT is accepted, it would be better to add an Imgur link to Temari's profile with the novel scan directly instead of a link from Narutowiki. I don't think links to other wikis are allowed.

Temari Fuuton Ap>Kahyo~Hokage Kakashi Fuuton Ap=At most 5-C

This is only for the Ap of Fuuton techniques. Physical Ap and Durability will not get the At most 5-C rating.

There's a massive issue here. Both the Shikamaru Hiden and Kakashi Hiden novels take place during the Blank Period.
Kakashi gets his High 6-A/5-C scaling well into the Boruto Era, well over a decade after the events of these novels. To add insult to injury, he's confirmed to have trained A LOT during this time and made considerable strides in the strength department. So there is absolutely no reason for anyone from this time period to scale to Kakashi from Boruto at all.

Another scaling is through Darui. Darui is also a Fuuton user and Shikamaru knows Darui. Of course Darui doesn't use Fuuton but rather his own kekei genkai Storm Relase. However, the Low 5-B rating on his profile is not only for Storm Relase. Temari's Fuuton techniques can go up to Low 5-B. Gaara is also at this level and is also a Fuuton user. Like Darui, he uses his own kekei genkai rather than Fuuton. The reason I didn't give Gaara as an example is because Gaara is Low 5-B thanks to Sand and his Sand techniques are counted as Magnet Relase, not just Fuuton.

Again, the same reasoning as Kakashi applies. Why on earth would Blank Era Darui and Gaara scale to their Boruto Era selves?

If you do not accept Tier 5 Fuuton, we can give Temari 6-C Fuuton Ap over Onoki, Orochimaru, Konohamaru and Boruto. Since this novel takes place in the Blank Period period, Boruto and Konohamaru may not be included. But Onoki and Orochimaru also had 6-C Ap in Shippuuden, so indirectly their Fuuton techniques should also have 6-C Ap.

Onoki is a no-no, since his Futon isn't even 6-C, but Orochimaru is a maybe ig.

I know this will be a very Chaos filled discussion. In this wiki, Mifune's technique with Kyuubi Chakra is rated as Speed of Light. Mifune, Temari, Gyuki and Hyuga Clan members attack. Mifune and Temari's attacks are more forward. Even if Speed of Light doesn't get Attack Speed from here, he should at least get Sub-Relativistic Attack Speed from Gyuki.

I'm confused. What are you proposing here exactly?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Not inherently. We know that she's the most varied and her kit relies on Fuuton more than anyone in the show, she's incredibly gifted at it and she's praised at being the best. She's never outright stated to be the strongest Fuuton user outside of in the Allied Shinobi Forces, and she even had to tag team with other no name ninjas to harm the Edo Raikage, which makes me think.. yeah she probably doesn't scale to Prime Orochimaru of all people lol.

So, to give an example of Fuuton-focused characters, does it scale to Danzo's Fuuton?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

So, to give an example of Fuuton-focused characters, does it scale to Danzo's Fuuton?

No, Danzo's been long dead at this point.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I'm confused. What are you proposing here exactly?

Basically the alliance shoots countless amounts of attacks, they travel together at near identical speeds with negligible difference with none of them lacking much behind the other

essentially flying together to hit the juubi, since Mifune's attacks have 1c attack speed her wind, hyuga clans attacks and the bijuubomb from gyuki would have the same speed as him

 

[Nierre]

I don't want to be too much of a contrarian, so maybe scaling above Orochimaru for being "the best" is fine? Not too certain on this though, I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say first

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Kakashi gets his High 6-A/5-C scaling well into the Boruto Era, well over a decade after the events of these novels. To add insult to injury, he's confirmed to have trained A LOT during this time and made considerable strides in the strength department. So there is absolutely no reason for anyone from this time period to scale to Kakashi from Boruto at all.

Again, the same reasoning as Kakashi applies. Why on earth would Blank Era Darui and Gaara scale to their Boruto Era selves?

You're right, their Blanck period states have no connection with their BE states. I forgot about that.

I'm confused. What are you proposing here exactly?

They attack at the same time and Temari's attack goes at the same time as Mifune's and both of their attacks go before Gyuki and Hyuga's. Since Mifune with Kyuubi chakra has SOL attack speed, I thought he would scale to him. Even if he doesn't scale to Mifune, I thought he would be at least Sub Rel since he goes before Gyuki's attack.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Basically the alliance shoots countless amounts of attacks, they travel together at near identical speeds with negligible difference with none of them lacking much behind the other

essentially flying together to hit the juubi, since Mifune's attacks have 1c attack speed her wind, hyuga clans attacks and the bijuubomb from gyuki would have the same speed as him

Uhuh, I get that. There's still no proposal in the OP tho. Kyuubi amped Ninjas don't actually have keys. So there's nobody this scales to as of right now.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

They attack at the same time and Temari's attack goes at the same time as Mifune's and both of their attacks go before Gyuki and Hyuga's. Since Mifune with Kyuubi chakra has SOL attack speed, I thought he would scale to him. Even if he doesn't scale to Mifune, I thought he would be at least Sub Rel since he goes before Gyuki's attack.

I'm sorry, who's the 'he' you're referring to?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think that best Wind user meaning strongest is fine since you're not really the best if others can outperform you, even if you use it more. Don't really agree with the Tier 5 stuff, but 6-C should be fine

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Uhuh, I get that. There's still no proposal in the OP tho. Kyuubi amped Ninjas don't actually have keys. So there's nobody this scales to as of right now.

oh yeah I suppose it would be weird that way, what about Gyuki getting LS attack speed via bijuubombs

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Uhuh, I get that. There's still no proposal in the OP tho. Kyuubi amped Ninjas don't actually have keys. So there's nobody this scales to as of right now.

So can't we do it like this: Mifune has Kyuubi amp and Sol Attack speed. Temari's attack speed scales to it. Can't we say they both have equal amounts of Kyuubi amp and do the reverse scaling? The episode description states that it strengthens by 2x. Of course, 2x power doesn't mean 2x speed, but since chakra increases both, it may be debatable.

Apart from the episode description, Kakashi also says in the manga that they are 3 times stronger

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I'm sorry, who's the 'he' you're referring to?

It was supposed to be ''she'', I am writing from the translation

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

So can't we do it like this: Mifune has Kyuubi amp and Sol Attack speed. Temari's attack speed scales to it. Can't we say they both have equal amounts of Kyuubi amp and do the reverse scaling? The episode description states that it strengthens by 2x. Of course, 2x power doesn't mean 2x speed, but since chakra increases both, it may be debatable.

Apart from the episode description, Kakashi also says in the manga that they are 3 times stronger

I dont think he's arguing against that

its just that you cant scale it to any other form of temari it just happens in her kyubi amp state
and Kyubi amp states dont get keys (although it could be added under their profile as "upto x attack speed during KN0 state")

 

[DavidTPPM]

I don't understand the whole "best fuuton user" logic here. Literally every major 6 paths character is "technically a wind style user".

Best here clearly talks about her skill in wind style, not the power of her attacks. Otherwise she'd scale above stuff like Narutos rasen shuriken which was denied on screen.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I don't understand the whole "best fuuton user" logic here. Literally every major 6 paths character is "technically a wind style user".

But not all six paths users prefer using Fuuton. I'm thinking of editing the description on CRT to say that it should "scale to Orochimaru, who prefers to use damage-based attacks with Fuuton only" as Nierre said.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I don't understand the whole "best fuuton user" logic here. Literally every major 6 paths character is "technically a wind style user".

Best here clearly talks about her skill in wind style, not the power of her attacks. Otherwise she'd scale above stuff like Narutos rasen shuriken which was denied on screen.

It clarified perhaps second best after as if to make an exception for Naruto, who's the only Six Paths level character at the time who I recall that uses Wind Style judiciously

 

[DavidTPPM]

But not all six paths users prefer using Fuuton. I'm thinking of editing the description on CRT to say that it should "scale to Orochimaru, who prefers to use damage-based attacks with Fuuton only" as Nierre said.

Okay but Narutos signature ultimate move is literally wind style rasen shuriken which kcm1 Nard and WA Temari claimed was superior to Temaris own fuuton. Technically speaking TSO are also partially fuuton.

So best ≠ strongest and in order to claim she's the strongest we have to cherry pick people who the statement applies to.

It clarified perhaps second best after as if to make an exception for Naruto, who's the only Six Paths level character at the time who I recall that uses Wind Style judiciously

Okay but whether someone uses wind style in character doesn't matter to how strong their wind style is. Besides that I also don't remember Orochimaru using wind style in canon at this point so calling him a wind style user is no different from calling Sasuke a wind style user.

The whole interpretation seems to need pretty heavy mental gymnastics and cherry picking when we could just easily say it's referring to skill (hence why it doesn't actually say strongest) without the need for any of that

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

btw for the speed part I think Gyuki should be perfectly allowed to get 1c attack speed via bijuubombs since he was behind the shinobi alliance, his bijuubomb would be covering more distance than mifune's to be able to travel in tandem with mifune, temari and the hyuga's attacks


is there a statement that temari is far stronger than she has ever been in the novels? if so there might be a way to scale her adult form to this as well

 

[Nierre]

Besides that I also don't remember Orochimaru using wind style in canon at this point so calling him a wind style user is no different from calling Sasuke a wind style user.

It's very different because he has in canon.

 

[DavidTPPM]

It's very different because he has in canon.

When? I don't remember him using a single wind style jutsu in any real fight by this point

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

is there a statement that temari is far stronger than she has ever been in the novels? if so there might be a way to scale her adult form to this as well

For The Last era, Naruto and his friends have stronger status than before, but Temari was not one of the people mentioned there. There were Lee, Sakura, Shikamaru and Sai in the picture. If we say The Last Lee>Kyuubi Chakra Amp Lee>Kyuubi Chakra amp Temari, he can get an upgrade. If we consider that Lee can also open the first door, it will be 5x ftl Lee. Since Boruto does not fight against anyone, there is no problem with scaling.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

When? I don't remember him using a single wind style jutsu in any real fight by this point

I searched on Google

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Okay but whether someone uses wind style in character doesn't matter to how strong their wind style is. Besides that I also don't remember Orochimaru using wind style in canon at this point so calling him a wind style user is no different from calling Sasuke a wind style user.

Best Wind user should mean best ninja that uses Wind Style. So if someone doesn't use Wind Style, then it doesn't matter if they have it

When? I don't remember him using a single wind style jutsu in any real fight by this point

 

[karo_senpaii]

Doesn't 6c temari kinda affect boruto scaling?

 

[Nierre]

Doesn't 6c temari kinda affect boruto scaling?

nah, they already scale to 6-C via Urashiki

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

For The Last era, Naruto and his friends have stronger status than before, but Temari was not one of the people mentioned there. There were Lee, Sakura, Shikamaru and Sai in the picture. If we say The Last Lee>Kyuubi Chakra Amp Lee>Kyuubi Chakra amp Temari, he can get an upgrade. If we consider that Lee can also open the first door, it will be 5x ftl Lee. Since Boruto does not fight against anyone, there is no problem with scaling.

what is the statement if I may see?



I need to get on with reading these damn novels

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

Doesn't 6c temari kinda affect boruto scaling?

Temari only fought against Urashiki's clones during Boruto's era. It shouldn't matter since Urashiki himself is already 6-C.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think "the best" here necessarily means pure AP when it could be equally interpreted as skill. So I disagree with the AP proposal portion of the OP.

I disagree with the speed part too; I don't think we can derive a solid rating from that.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

btw for the speed part I think Gyuki should be perfectly allowed to get 1c attack speed via bijuubombs since he was behind the shinobi alliance, his bijuubomb would be covering more distance than mifune's to be able to travel in tandem with mifune, temari and the hyuga's attacks

Idk, Bee had a Kyuubi Cloak. It wasn't consistently drawn all the time (as is the case for many characters), but he did apparently have one.

It was supposed to be ''she'', I am writing from the translation

It's alright, dw about it. I was just a tad confused lol.

So can't we do it like this: Mifune has Kyuubi amp and Sol Attack speed. Temari's attack speed scales to it. Can't we say they both have equal amounts of Kyuubi amp and do the reverse scaling? The episode description states that it strengthens by 2x. Of course, 2x power doesn't mean 2x speed, but since chakra increases both, it may be debatable.

Apart from the episode description, Kakashi also says in the manga that they are 3 times stronger

You said it yourself, AP and Speed aren't proportional like that, and even if they were, the Kyuubi cloaks are unquantifiably far greater than 3x anyhow, meaning there are no concrete numbers to downscale from.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

nah, they already scale to 6-C via Urashiki

Doesn't one key of theirs scale to High 7-A off of Temari?

 

[Nierre]

Doesn't one key of them scale to High 7-A off of Temari?

nah

 

[DavidTPPM]

I searched on Google

That's Boruto era which wouldn't count for a statement made in the blank period solid 15 years before.

Best Wind user should mean best ninja that uses Wind Style. So if someone doesn't use Wind Style, then it doesn't matter if they have it

So, for example Orochimaru?

I don't remember him using a single wind style jutsu in any real fight by this point

Toying with kids while hiding his identity isn't exactly a real fight. Hell if anything I would say him only using wind style while pretending to be someone else implies he normally wouldn't use it.
All this really proves is that Orochimaru has wind style (same as Sasuke) but doesn't actually use it.

But even if you really want to tinker interpretations specifically to make Orochimaru a wind style user, it won't prove he has an actual tier 6 wind style ninjutsu. Afterall his only fuuton used by that point didn't even really harm a tier 8 Naruto