Tarmiel's Ocean Proper Calc (Please Comment)

[VersusJunkie54]

Honestly, why? It's pretty clear the current calc is just wrong.

 

[TataHakai]

If you need Raven urgently just drop a reminder on his wall and i'm sure he'll attend to this as soon as he can.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

He's done with Fairy Tail Calc, he siad he'll do this next, just give him a bit of time, he needs to thoroughly look through the calcs

 

[Antvasima]

Actually, the Fairy Tail calculation still needs to be discussed between him, Bambu, and Cal in the calc group forum.

 

[TataHakai]

The earth size was done i think? They're discussing the meteor calc now

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[RavenSupreme]

Apparently everything was done, but now its still a discussion over which end to use. The calculation however seem to have been done.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. Agreed.

 

[The_Causality]

Yes, it is necessary to choose if the calculation of Dodo or Galaxian is usable, the current is no longer valid

 

[RavenSupreme]

After having looked over all the blogs again here is my evaluation:

Galaxies Ocean calc: Was rejected because it assumed a size - the Arctic Ocean size. Without a way to determine the size this assumption would inflate the result.

I still stand by it not being applicable.

DodoNovas calc: Due to it being Island level it is outshined by another calculation, the Danafor Destruction, which resulted in some 6B result - hence its not really useful

Malikobamas calc: The most appropriate approach on the matter. It is beyond me however how everyone, this includes me, had overlooked the missing Horizon. It likely is such a standard and basic part of so much calc that we may have seen it as a given without double checking the actual missing Art.

Without the Horizon being present we have no wiggle room however.

-

Verdict:

Neither of the Ocean Calcs are to be used at the moment until someone found a better way to calc the feat.

The NNT profiles should be replaced by the next best scaling, which apparently is 5Teratons from this

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. I think that we should follow Raven's verdict then.

 

[Damage3245]

Doesn't that calc say we don't have a reason to assume vaporization? So the result of that calc could be lower than 5 Teratons.

 

[RavenSupreme]

The original calc blog was not touched since 2016. In the comments with recent retcons the reason for applying the vaporization end was given.

 

[Damage3245]

Reasons for and against. For what it is worth, I am siding with the Against side.

The darkness + pillar of darkness Meliodas creates are distinct techniques from the Hellfire used by the Demon Clan.

He does the pillar of darkness against Galland as well when Galland when first shows up

 

[RavenSupreme]

Which was in chapter 120. We are in Chapter 280 right now with enough retcons, including an actual view on the destruction in the nigh 200s which imply vaporization. However you are of course free to have your own opinion on the matter.

 

[Damage3245]

The former view (showing the pillar of darkness engulfing the kingdom) is a view of the destruction as well as it is happening.

I believe the latter view in Zaratras' flashback is simply showing the immediate aftermath. The pillar of darkness is still what is responsible for the destruction.

 

[RavenSupreme]

How would an vaporization aftermath immediately happen after a non-vaporization attack?

 

[Damage3245]

It could simply be some artistic license from the author.

Meliodas used the pillar of darkness to deal a crushing attack to Galland - wearing away at the ground around him except for where he stood.

He's also used his darkness to crush Zeldris and Estarossa to the ground, without any signs of vaporizing them or the ground around them.

 

[ByAsura]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Zeldris and Estarossa feat looks like vaporization from what look like steam clouds around it.

 

[RavenSupreme]

These things are not mutually exclusive. One having the ability to use darkness doesnt mean one doesnt has the ability to use Hellblaze.

Instead of an artistic license the chances of it being an actual retcon is much more likely. Also given that Darkness has been replaced by DF as the means to attack for the most part.

Contrary to what you stated for example it was not Darkness with which Meliodas contained his brothers but Demon Flames.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RGiIU1RC7...KA9o1yT4pHo-OMFRACHMYBhgL/s16000/0246-018.png

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uV3Va2DiT...RpyBJ9HEpmMi1kx-wCHMYBhgL/s16000/0246-021.png

 

[ByAsura]

I also doubt it's some artistic liscence rather than just a retcon because it's fairly inconsistent.

Some have particles in the air as if it were reduced to ash, some have the city being fragmented and scattered to the side, and there's the vaporization one.

 

[Damage3245]

Strangely Meliodas' profile mentions that as him using darkness to hold them down.

But if ByAsura is right then it's irrelevant; Hellblaze is plausible for vaporization but I don't think it has been officially retconned that Meliodas had to use Hellblaze to destroy Danafor.

Yes, Meliodas can use both Hellblaze and Darkness. One view of him destroying Danafor shows him using the Pillar of Darkness (which we've seen from him multiple times), one alternative view possibly shows Hellblaze present when Danafor is destroyed.

EDIT: I still believe the most consistent method of destruction is the pillar of darkness. If we see Danafor destroyed again in another future panel, then I bet it will show the pillar of darkness again.

 

[ByAsura]

If we were to say it was the pillar, which I totally agree with, I think disintegration would be the best end.

It's one of the most consistent things in the Danafor scenes, even with the Darkness Pillar, and there's signs of disintegration with another darkness pillar. It's also the aftermath in the first scene we ever got of Danafor in the manga.

 

[RavenSupreme]

If the Danafor Destruction - likely in a future Gaiden - will be completely explained again we once again do a revision. As for now, due to the way the story is going using the newest information is recommended.

Also the explanation of detaining his brothers on the profiles should be changed.

Also who has a grasp on NNT profiles in general to do all the changes? And how many profiles are affected?

 

[ByAsura]

I'll compile them, but I'm not going to do the edits because I'm not the best at editing.

 

[ByAsura]

Meliodas, Escanor, Diane, Ban with Galand's power, Gowther, Gowther (Demon), King, Merli, Dreyfus with Break, Arthur with Excallibur, Chandler, Cusack, Drole, Fraudri, Estarossa, Galand, Gloxinia, Grayroad, Melascula, Monspeet, Zeldris, Derieri, Elaine, Calmadios, and Elizabeth Liones.

The Archangels, Demon King, and Supreme Deity scale from the Ocean calc, so I didn't include them.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Should we discuss how that's settled then? The scaling of characters still needs to be sorted out.

 

[Peter1129]

So I'm guessing we are using the High 6-C ocean calc and back to the 6-C Danafor calc?

 

[Damage3245]

Well, that makes a bit more sense for the scaling.

 

[Peter1129]

Which end of Dodo's High 6-C Ocean calc was accepted? High end or low end?

 

[RavenSupreme]

We are using the 6B Danafor calculation and neither of the ocean calculations

 

[Peter1129]

Oh so Low 6-B+ Danafor calc vaporization End. If so than it would be something like this

God Tiers (Since we are not using the multipliers) (At least 6-B Likely far higher): Supreme Deity and Demon King

Top Tiers (At least 6-B): Hawk Mama (Potentially higher), The One Escanor, 3C and 4C Mael, 5C and normal Assault Mode Meliodas, and Full Grown Induras

High Tiers (6-B): The Archangels, 2C Mael, New Induras, Zeldris w/ God, Post-Revival Demon Mark Meliodas, and True Form Masters

Mid-High Tiers (Low 6-B - Low 6-B+): Stronger Ten Commandments such as Base Zeldris, Monspeet Derrieri, Drole, Gloxinia, Base Masters, and Unsealed Demon Mark Meliodas

Low-High Tiers (High 6-C+ Likely Low 6-B): Weaker Ten Commandments Galand, Melascula, Grayroad, And Fraudrin

 

[RavenSupreme]

I think we have some multipliers somewhere which caused anyone Sar and Tar Tier and above to be x2 the calced result.

So we have 5 TT low 6B+ for the Majority of people and 6B for anyone on a level of 11.30 Escanor. I dont remember it specifically but it was a huge part of the discussion some time ago, due to Full Counter being accepted as a x2 multiplier.

Also no one should be "likely high 6B" since thats still a 10 times difference to the result even with multiplier active. Its too much.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

So for Peter's scaling, the Gods would just be "At least 6-B" then? They are still massively superior than the top tiers at 6-B with all the multipliers and such involved.

 

[Peter1129]

I put the gods at At least 6-B Likely High 6-B because of the scaling and multipliers.

Full Power Gods are 2x stronger than Weakened Gods who are 4x stronger than The One Escanor who one shot Assault Mode Meliodas who stomped Late Morning Escanor who is stronger than Zeldris w/ God who is stronger Post-Revival Demon Mark Meliodas who is stronger than Ludoshel who is stronger than Tarmiel and Sariel who are stated to be 2x stronger than the Commandments which are likely referring to the stronger Commandments like Base Zeldris and Estarossa who are both stronger than Unsealed Demon Mark Meliodas who is 5 Teratons.

The Archangels are already a bit over 10 Teratons and The One Escanor is far beyond them with the Gods being 8x stronger than Escanor at full power. So it's definitely possible for the Gods to be Likely High 6-B at full power.

 

[RavenSupreme]

This is an extraordinary absuse of Powerlevel scaling and in virtually no other series would this fly. The very best we have is 10 Teratons due to a FC Multiplier which gets scaled to the Archangels and everyone comparable or above.

You are basically arguing for a literal one thousand percent increase in assigned tiering just because of inverse powerlevels.Thats absolutely not applicable.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

I agree with Raven. Nobody should get likely High 6-B

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I agree with Raven as well. We should be very careful in the liberties we take in using power levels to scale characters. I think that Low 6-B+ for everyone below Late Morning Escanor and 6-B for everyone above is acceptable and reliable given the feat that we are using to scale.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Lets not forget that the Dandafor feat was done by Meliodas giving it his all, as in screaming his head off in emotional agony.

 

[Damage3245]

Yeah; I do think that is important to take into account. We've not really seen Meliodas go as all-out as he did back then when he destroyed Danafor.