Sword Art Online Speed Downgrade.

[Kaantantr]

There is no probability manipulation in SAO, but we can get there another day to not derail this thread further.

 

[Zencha9]

I'm sorry, but you cannot apply headcanon onto events happening in a series just because you want to. That's why it is called headcanon.

That's not headcanon that's the basic assumptions we use in the wiki

 

[DaReaperMan]

There is no probability manipulation in SAO, but we can get there another day to not derail this thread further.

Pretty much every Post-Aincrad profile disagrees, its under the limited Reality Warping

 

[DastardlyDangerousDracoga]

Except SAO does not challenge real physics laws. There is 0 precedence in the series regarding this, even within game worlds. If there is a claim of such a thing happening, it needs to be proved as such. And until it's proven, the default status quo is that it has not happened.

But that would be making too many assumptions on your end, no?

 

[Kaantantr]

But that would be making too many assumptions on your end, no?

I have made 0 assumptions here. Everything I said is literally sourced through the excerpt I have provided.

That's not headcanon that's the basic assumptions we use in the wiki

I have to ask, why do you feel the need to make assumptions, when the text itself leaves no place for assumptions? Assumptions have to have a basis for them to be assumed. I cannot just randomly assume something because I want to.

 

[RitsuØ1]

There is no probability manipulation in SAO, but we can get there another day to not derail this thread further.

How on earth is there NO Probability Manipulation in SAO?

Probability Manipulation (If an Incarnation user truly believes that they are weaker than their foe, even subconsciously, reality will be rewritten to ensure their defeat (and vice versa). If both sides are both completely confident in a battle, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other)

This was shown multiple times in the series such as when Kirito thought he was weaker than Volo and then the match ended as a stalemate. When PoH was overpowering Kirito, Steeka prayed for Eugeo to help Kirito and he did and helped him defeat PoH. And when Subtilizer almost defeated Kirito, Kirito turned the match into his favor overpowering/stalemating with Subtilizer due to his immense willpower and activating incarnation. And when Kirito’s arm got chopped off, Eugeo showed up and helped Kirito defeat Subtilizer. :/

 

[Kaantantr]

If an Incarnation user truly believes that they are weaker than their foe, even subconsciously, reality will be rewritten to ensure their defeat (and vice versa). If both sides are both completely confident in a battle, it will be a battle to see who's mental willpower is stronger than the other

This is simply wrong and is simply based on an extreme oversimplification of what Incarnation is. If this was true, then Renly would have lost to the little Goblins as well as their chief, as throughout the fight, he had 0 belief he would win, whereas the Goblins and their chief had utmost belief that they would win, especially after deflecting the Double Winged Blades multiple times.

 

[Kaantantr]

This was shown multiple times in the series such as when Kirito thought he was weaker than Volo and then the match ended as a stalemate.

Kirito never thought he was inferior to Volo, he just wanted to observe where Volo's power was coming from. That was the entire point of the first year of the academy. To observe and learn about Incarnation. Eugeo has a similar journey in the second year of the academy too, where he is carefully observing Raios and Humbert to make sense of Kirito's conclusions. The match between Volo and Kirito ended in a stalemate because Miss Azurika stopped the duel when she saw both of them really going at it and did not want any of them dying, as they were dueling with real swords.

When PoH was overpowering Kirito, Steeka prayed for Eugeo to help Kirito and he did and helped him defeat PoH.

You are mixing your characters. Stica is 200 years into the future. And Eugeo did not help Kirito because Tiese asked him to. He did it because the fragment of him inside the Blue Rose Sword manifested to help Kirito, further amplified by the fact that Higa opened a direct connection from the Blue Rose Sword's object to the Main Visualizer to help Kirito wake up just in the previous scene.

And when Subtilizer almost defeated Kirito, Kirito turned the match into his favor overpowering/stalemating with Subtilizer due to his immense willpower and activating incarnation.

That is not what happened. Kirito got destroyed in that fight. And realising he cannot win, he actually allowed Subtilizer to win, because he knew Gabriel would not be able to process the amount of data flowing into his brain.

And when Kirito’s arm got chopped off, Eugeo showed up and helped Kirito defeat Subtilizer. :/

Check the prior explanation.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hmmm, can you make another CRT with these explanations Gamerturk? Maybe combine it with the SAO tier revisions

 

[Zencha9]

I have to ask, why do you feel the need to make assumptions, when the text itself leaves no place for assumptions? Assumptions have to have a basis for them to be assumed. I cannot just randomly assume something because I want to

I don't make the rules sorry

 

[Helestias]

Stop derailing into another argument.This is a speed crt.Complete and close it first.New crt can be made later on.

 

[Kaantantr]

Hmmm, can you make another CRT with these explanations Gamerturk? Maybe combine it with the SAO tier revisions

I do not want to go too in depth with CRT's at the moment since as I said, I am not exactly familiar with all the intricacies of one and I would rather not mess with too much, until I can take a proper look. As a lot of information is just built on a huge foundation of misinterpretations, it needs a more intricate approach rather than just demolishing things.

I don't make the rules sorry

Can you point me to the rules where it says "You must assume things even if no assumptions are required, despite your assumptions contradicting the source material" please?

Stop derailing into another argument.This is a speed crt.Complete and close it first.New crt can be made later on.

I tried my best, but I cannot not-respond if people are so insistent on confronting me with misinformation. First and foremost, I am here to correct misinformation. I find it funny when I share an entire paragraph full of information, and some people feel the need to cherry pick one minor thing that was said to derail the entire thing. Either way, DMUA already shared his acknowledgement and I believe he is the SAO person around.

 

[Ionliosite]

For god sake, what the hell happened here? This thread derailed beyond oblivion while I was asleep.

 

[DastardlyDangerousDracoga]

For god sake, what the hell happened here? This thread derailed beyond oblivion while I was asleep.

This is honestly how I feel sometimes.

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah idk why people are getting so hung up on the talking part. Even if you assume "talking is a free action", that doesn't dismiss the rest of gamerturk's argument. And "talking is a free action" would be much more convincing if the rest of gamerturk's argument were to be debunked.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Except SAO does not challenge real physics laws. There is 0 precedence in the series regarding this, even within game worlds. If there is a claim of such a thing happening, it needs to be proved as such. And until it's proven, the default status quo is that it has not happened.

...Not quite how it works here. If a being does a MFTL+ feat, we treat it as MFTL+ feat (unless its an outlier), even if the series never states that you can get past lightspeed. Otherwise...90% of the profiles of this wiki wouldnt breach Lightspeed, but they do, so

 

[Kaantantr]

...Not quite how it works here. If a being does a MFTL+ feat, we treat it as MFTL+ feat (unless its an outlier), even if the series never states that you can get past lightspeed. Otherwise...90% of the profiles of this wiki wouldnt breach Lightspeed, but they do, so

Again, as multiple people have stated their displeasure at things being derailed, I am not going to address these claims any longer in this thread. We will be taking necessary actions once the time comes in separate CRTs dedicated to these topics.
If you have any questions regarding the information I provided for the topic of this thread, share them and I'll address them.

 

[RitsuØ1]

The distinction is very important, as you can actually see the movement of a "spear of superheated light" whereas in comparison, an actual beam of light is absolutely instantaneous.

Back on the topic, speed, this explanation sounds like Infinite Speed from my POV:

Infinite Speed (Able to travel anywhere instantly, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count.

 

[DastardlyDangerousDracoga]

Back on the topic, speed, this explanation sounds like Infinite Speed from my POV:

Omg, lol.

 

[Ionliosite]

Back on the topic, speed, this explanation sounds like Infinite Speed from my POV:

I think he meant "instantaneous" as people usually use it as an hyperbole. Just like in some calcs "instantaneous" is assumed to be 1 second.

 

[Kaantantr]

Back on the topic, speed, this explanation sounds like Infinite Speed from my POV:

You are talking about a projectile attack that a Giant can actually dodge by accidentally stumbling because they got scared.

Fanatio specifically aims at Sigurosig in Alicization Exploding. The distance is of course much higher, and thus the projectile has to travel enough time for Sigurosig to see it being shot (as in see the light that is coming at him from the luminous blast), get so scared that he stumbles and falls down and thus the attack hits other Giants behind him.

If you are going to imply anything faster than a sniper bullet, Sigurosig would have been destroyed, let alone "get scared, stumble on the ground, fall down". So you are incorrect.

 

[RitsuØ1]

I think he meant "instantaneous" as people usually use it as an hyperbole. Just like in some calcs "instantaneous" is assumed to be 1 second.

Wouldn’t that still qualify for Infinite Speed tho?

You are talking about a projectile attack that a Giant can actually dodge by accidentally stumbling because they got scared.

Fanatio specifically aims at Sigurosig in Alicization Exploding. The distance is of course much higher, and thus the projectile has to travel enough time for Sigurosig to see it being shot (as in see the light that is coming at him from the luminous blast), get so scared that he stumbles and falls down and thus the attack hits other Giants behind him.

If you are going to imply anything faster than a sniper bullet, Sigurosig would have been destroyed, let alone "get scared, stumble on the ground, fall down". So you are incorrect.

I’m not sure if you know this or not, but there are different types of speed, such as reaction speed, and not just travel speed. Just a heads up.

 

[Kaantantr]

I’m not sure if you know this or not, but there are different types of speed, not just travel speed. Just a heads up.

If there is something wrong with what I stated, say what is wrong. Otherwise, I will not be responding. What I said should be clear as day and it sounds like you just want to be a contrarian with no substance just to derail things again. And I have already said I do not want to derail conversations as multiple people have stated their displeasure.

Either way, DMUA agreed, which I believe is the only responsible person here, so I recommend continuing with whatever is the next step with the procedures.

 

[Ionliosite]

Wouldn’t that still qualify for Infinite Speed tho?

Most definitely not.

 

[Zencha9]

Can you point me to the rules where it says "You must assume things even if no assumptions are required, despite your assumptions contradicting the source material" please?

If it contradicts the source material then yeah the source material would be used rather than the assumptions of course
But i need you to clarify that if it's stated that characters can't speak in Light Speed

 

[Kaantantr]

If it contradicts the source material then yeah the source material would be used rather than the assumptions of course
But i need you to clarify that if it's stated that characters can't speak in of Light Speed

System Commands are used via traditional voice recognition. It is explained that incorrectly pronouncing Sacred Arts causes it to backfire/yield unintended results. Lightspeed speech would result in a split second unintelligible sound, unrecognizable by the system.

SAO is much more tied into technological rules than you seem to realize.

 

[Helestias]

Lightspeed speech would result in a split second unintelligible sound, unrecognizable by the system.

I'm pretty system can recognize.The whole moon cradle arc underworld was Accelerated 5000000 times and in that underworld there were atleast supersonic people?If so underworld system should be powerful enough to recognize speeches atleast on Relativistic speed.

 

[Kaantantr]

I'm pretty system can recognize.The whole moon cradle arc underworld was Accelerated 5000000 times and in that underworld there were atleast supersonic people?If so underworld system should be powerful enough to recognize speeches atleast on Relativistic speed.

There is a massive difference between speaking 500k times the speed of real life when the system is also running at 500k times the speed of real life effectively matching you at a 1:1 ratio speed with the system so voice recognition still working as intended vs speaking 500k times the speed when the system is not running at that speed. The former yields a perfectly pitched, perfectly length speech to the system, whereas the latter just causes a split second beep for the system.

Also, Moon Cradle is not an arc, it's a week long sidestory that takes place one and a half years into the Maximum Acceleration Phase, which is actually what you want to refer to in this case.

 

[DMUA]

Yeah idk why people are getting so hung up on the talking part. Even if you assume "talking is a free action", that doesn't dismiss the rest of gamerturk's argument. And "talking is a free action" would be much more convincing if the rest of gamerturk's argument were to be debunked.

I am entirely in line with this

That said, I'm not entirely sure what speed feat we'd use besides that. Before we started using Fanito dodging her own attack we straight up had unknown ratings. You could probably unironically argue their speed is peak human considering they don't have anything higher that isn't just aimdodging or otherwise.

 

[Kaantantr]

I am entirely in line with this

That said, I'm not entirely sure what speed feat we'd use besides that. Before we started using Fanito dodging her own attack we straight up had unknown ratings. You could probably unironically argue their speed is peak human considering they don't have anything higher that isn't just aimdodging or otherwise.

Can you provide me a link for the speed definitions for characters? The words "Peak Human" would potentially cut things slightly short for the likes of Integrity Knights, but I do not want to suggest anything definitive without a clear sight of how they are categorized.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Can you provide me a link for the speed definitions for characters? The words "Peak Human" would potentially cut things slightly short for the likes of Integrity Knights, but I do not want to suggest anything definitive without a clear sight of how they are categorized.

Speed

Speed is simply how fast a character can move in a given amount of time. There are five types of speed used for VS purposes: Attack Speed, Combat Speed, Reaction Speed, Travel Speed, and Flight Speed. The term "Speed" normally refers to Combat Speed. The speed at which an attack moves. For...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DaReaperMan]

Can you provide me a link for the speed definitions for characters? The words "Peak Human" would potentially cut things slightly short for the likes of Integrity Knights, but I do not want to suggest anything definitive without a clear sight of how they are categorized.

Speed page

 

[DMUA]

Here

Peak Human is generally just, the upper limit of what a normal person is capable of via sprinting. Considering they are physically superhuman in other aspects it's at least somewhat safe to say they'd be more than just Athletic.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Here

Peak Human is generally just, the upper limit of what a normal person is capable of via sprinting. Considering they are physically superhuman in other aspects it's at least somewhat safe to say they'd be more than just Athletic.

Human Realm Arc Kirito is At least Superhuman

 

[Helestias]

There is a massive difference between speaking 500k times the speed of real life when the system is also running at 500k times the speed of real life effectively matching you at a 1:1

Its 5 million.Also no what i meant is if the underworld runs that many times faster.than normal A.I. in that world talking would be pretty much near light speed for Earths humans perspective.The whole system is running at earths time not underworlds Accelerated time and system still can recognize every speech of every human(A.I.) happening in the underworld.It Should have more than enough capabilities to recognize speeches atleast sub rel speed.

 

[Ionliosite]

Can you provide me a link for the speed definitions for characters? The words "Peak Human" would potentially cut things slightly short for the likes of Integrity Knights, but I do not want to suggest anything definitive without a clear sight of how they are categorized.

Basically, Peak Human speed is moving between 10.03 m/s and 12.43 m/s, derived from those speeds being the peak of real life human capacity. A character being called "Peak Human" doesn't give them the rating, such as Daredevil being Subsonic and Batman being Massively Hypersonic, mostly because "Peak Humans" are rarely, actually, moving at such speed - mostly because writers make their peak human characters accidentally superhuman a lot of the time.

 

[Kaantantr]

Thank you guys!

Had a quick luck and it is a lot more exact information oriented than I thought.

Generally speaking, pre-Alicization content, I would certainly be able to recommend characters to be above "Peak Human", since most of those games feature an actual Dexterity as well as Agility stat that do affect your capabilities in VR. However, when it comes to Underworld, such stats to give someone Superhuman speed and reaction do not exist. The only publicly available stats are the HP (Life/Durability), System Control Authority (Sacred Arts level) and Object Control Authority (weapon equipment level). We know there are hidden stats for system purposes, things that define your personality as well as physical aptitude, however these are very much realistically oriented, as the goal of Project Alicization is to make sure the civilization lives in a controllable but similar-to-real conditions, so their physical capabilities cannot reach superhuman by the limitations of the how the world was designed. Even things like jumping down to the ground from incredible heights requires them to use wind elements to break their fall to not die.

The whole system is running at earths time not underworlds.

I do not think you understood my argument on the different layers that are factoring in here and how real world and the simulation speeds are vowen into each other. "Recognition" runs at the speed it is receiving data in, because that is simply how it is designed. That is the case everywhere. If an AI doesn't understand you, it will not go "Hmmm, I wonder if this person is speaking fast, let me just check to be sure". I mean, I can go into technicalities how that would cause infinite recursions as the system will just have to check endlessly for ages to see if someone may be saying something that is just a bit too fast.

Remember, Project Alicization is still a software, tied to its hardware limitations, thus it does not have infinite processing power either. So it is illogical at a ground level to assume a non-standard to be the case to begin with, just because it helps you argue what you want to argue.

 

[Helestias]

Remember, Project Alicization is still a software, tied to its hardware limitations

A software far advance than what we can think of which comes 4-5 years later and has the capability of creating virtual worlds(near similar to ours in every human sense) which has literal solar system and can accelerate time in that different world by 5 million times and has machinary capable reading our soul(something similar scientifically)
Well not that it matters in this crt.So i will refrain from further arguing

 

[RitsuØ1]

Even the SAO Wikia says it fires light rays:

Even if it’s more like a laser and not a light, it’s still a Relativistic Speed feat nonetheless

 

[Kaantantr]

Even the SAO Wikia says it fires light rays:

Even if it’s more like a laser and not a light, it’s still a Relativistic Speed feat nonetheless

We do not use specific terminology as tightly as you guys. Us stating "Light Rays" is literally a visual descriptor of how it looks.