Sword Art Online General Discussion/Q&A Thread #4

[Ionliosite]

If you even read it correctly it says that at it's largest the size of the underworld is one sun and two planets

First of all, this is automatically incorrect by the fact that Underworld has things like a starry sky, a friggin Milky Way, and Mechadragons traveling at interstellar distances. So I don't know how you get that when the context clearly indicates he's talking about the planet, which is called Underworld multiple times in the novel.

so interstellar travel via mechadragons is not possible since there is only one sun.

Which is completely wrong for the reasons I already stated. If there's only one star, then it couldn't possibly have things like a starry sky or what is directly called a Milky Way.

 

[Ionliosite]

I exhaled and surveyed the unthinkable scene before my eyes again. Stars of breathtaking density stretched in a band from top right to the bottom left of my vision. I suppose you could call it the Milky Way, but no matter how I lined up the potently glowing stars, I could not recognize a single familiar constellation from the real world. This was Underworld, all right.

You literally can't debunk this, since it's as blatantly stated as it can.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

And the name of the planet isn't Underworld it's Cardina and Admina so I don't know where you got that from the name Underworld refers to the simulation they are in.

Cardina and Admina only existed after Star King and Star Queen named them during their 200 years in the Underworld. The planet was simply called the Underworld before Cardina and Admina even had a name.

 

[Omega613]

You literally can't debunk this, since it's as blatantly stated as it can.

Do you even know what imagery is. Reki Kawahara stated that the galaxy Kirito is seeing is literally the sky you see in open world games, so what Kirito is seeing is not an actual galaxy.

 

[Omega613]

Which is completely wrong for the reasons I already stated. If there's only one star, then it couldn't possibly have things like a starry sky or what is directly called a Milky Way.

Then why did Reki Kawahara say that there is only one sun and that the two planets are orbiting around that sun which means it's interplanetary travel not interstellar since the two planets are orbiting around one sun.

 

[Omega613]

The starry sky is literally just the thing you see in open world games you just because you see that there a entire galaxy in a game doesn't mean you can go that galaxy. And yes using games in this case is valid because Reki Kawahara used it himself to describe the starry sky Kirito is seeing.

 

[Ionliosite]

Do you even know what imagery is. Reki Kawahara stated that the galaxy Kirito is seeing is literally the sky you see in open world games, so what Kirito is seeing is not an actual galaxy.

I don't even know what your argument here is. How is something directly compared to a galaxy suddenly not even close to one? How are the multiple times stars are seen suddenly mean there's only one star? When you literally have the statements and showings in the novel itself telling you that there's stars in the sky and a Milky Way somehwere, there's literally no way to argue the things we're literally told and shown aren't true.

 

[Omega613]

Cardina and Admina only existed after Star King and Star Queen named them during their 200 years in the Underworld. The planet was simply called the Underworld before Cardina and Admina even had a name.

That's true but this is after the planets were named so the name Underworld would be for the entire simulation now.

 

[Omega613]

I don't even know what your argument here is. How is something directly compared to a galaxy suddenly not even close to one? How are the multiple times stars are seen suddenly mean there's only one star? When you literally have the statements and showings in the novel itself telling you that there's stars in the sky and a Milky Way somehwere, there's literally no way to argue the things we're literally told and shown aren't true.

Are you telling me that when you see stars in a game it means you can go to those stars? Just because there are stars doesn't mean they can go to those stars. Reki himself stated this in the statement I showed where he says the sky Kirito is seeing is what you see in open world games. Are you telling me the author himself is wrong?

Here's an example in destiny there's a planet in the sky but it doesn't mean the character or player can go to that planet.

This is what Reki means when he says that what Kirito is seeing is just the sky that you see in open world games.

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

The starry sky is literally just the thing you see in open world games you just because you see that there a entire galaxy in a game doesn't mean you can go that galaxy. And yes using games in this case is valid because Reki Kawahara used it himself to describe the starry sky Kirito is seeing.

I exhaled and surveyed the unthinkable scene before my eyes again. Stars of breathtaking density stretched in a band from top right to the bottom left of my vision. I suppose you could call it the Milky Way, but no matter how I lined up the potently glowing stars, I could not recognize a single familiar constellation from the real world. This was Underworld, all right.

OK. Try reading the bolded part. The Real World is obviously not just a starry sky. Kirito compared the Underworld to the Real World's constellation which obviously has stars. So yes. Underworld is a Galaxy-Sized Universe.

 

[Omega613]

I had to look long and hard for this.

Statement from Reki Kawahara (author of SAO) from his official twitter saying the stars and galaxy that Kirito saw is just the sky you see in open world games not actual stars and galaxies.

Link

Statement:
1.私たちがオープンワールドゲームで見る星空と基本的には同じものです。
2.具体的な距離はSAO26巻で明らかになるはずですが、地球と火星よりずっとずっとずっと近いです。

Translation:
1. It's basically the same as the starry sky we see in open world games.
2. The specific distance should be revealed in SAO Vol. 26, but it is much closer than Earth and Mars.

Read the one I put in bold.

What Reki is saying is that what Kirito saw is what we'd see in open world games.

 

[Omega613]

OK. Try reading the bolded part. The Real World is obviously not just a starry sky. Kirito compared the Underworld to the Real World's constellation which obviously has stars. So yes. Underworld is a Galaxy-Sized Universe.

I'm not saying that The Real World is just a starry sky what I'm saying is that what Kirito is seeing is a starry sky but that doesn't mean he can go to those stars since Reki says that the size of the Underworld is one sun and two planets just because you see stars doesn't mean that the Underworld is really that big it's like saying just because there are stars in a game means that you can actually go there.

 

[Ionliosite]

Are you telling me that when you see stars in a game it means you can go to those stars? Just because there are stars doesn't mean they can go to those stars. Reki himself stated this in the statement I showed where he says the sky Kirito is seeing is what you see in open world games. Are you telling me the author himself is wrong?

Here's an example in destiny there's a planet in the sky but it doesn't mean the character or player can go to that planet.

This is what Reki means when he says that what Kirito is seeing is just the sky that you see in open world games.

For starters, Destiny's universe IS a universe, so that's a terrible example to use when trying to debunk something being an universe. Because the player in Destiny can't travel there doesn't suddenly mean the place doesn't exist. If there's a planet in the sky in Destiny, then the world is clearly far bigger than just the planet the player is on. Also Destiny is Tier 2 and has Tier 4 characters, so even worse to use the example.

Saying the stars aren't actually there makes no sense when we have the stars rippling in the battle with the Abyssal Horror, so they're clearly are more than just the "images" you claim they are, they're legitimate physical objects or else it wouldn't be possible for them to ripple due to the impact.

When you have statements directly calling the place a universe, multiple stars being mentioned and affected by physical events, an entire Milky Way being observed on it, trying to argue the size of the place is limited to a star and two planets makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and goes directly against what we're shown in the novel.

 

[Omega613]

For starters, Destiny's universe IS a universe, so that's a terrible example to use when trying to debunk something being an universe. Because the player in Destiny can't travel there doesn't suddenly mean the place doesn't exist. If there's a planet in the sky in Destiny, then the world is clearly far bigger than just the planet the player is on. Also Destiny is Tier 2 and has Tier 4 characters, so even worse to use the example.

Saying the stars aren't actually there makes no sense when we have the stars rippling in the battle with the Abyssal Horror, so they're clearly are more than just the "images" you claim they are, they're legitimate physical objects or else it wouldn't be possible for them to ripple due to the impact.

When you have statements directly calling the place a universe, multiple stars being mentioned and affected by physical events, an entire Milky Way being observed on it, trying to argue the size of the place is limited to a star and two planets makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and goes directly against what we're shown in the novel.

So what you are saying is that in game you can actually go to that specific planet.

You clearly don't know how imagery works imagery aren't images.

So you're saying is that Reki Kawahara is wrong?

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

I'm not saying that The Real World is just a starry sky what I'm saying is that what Kirito is seeing is a starry sky but that doesn't mean he can go to those stars since Reki says that the size of the Underworld is one sun and two planets just because you see stars doesn't mean that the Underworld is really that big it's like saying just because there are stars in a game means that you can actually go there.

I dunno where you are going at with this since Kirito literally compared the Underworld's constellation to the Real World's constellation which obviously has stars

 

[Ionliosite]

So what you are saying is that in game you can actually go to that specific planet.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying that being able to travel there or not doesn't change the size of the universe at all when you have a whole lot of statements supporting it being, at the very least, the size of the Milky Way. Besides, we're already rating Kirito and the Mechadragons only being able to go to one planet to another instead of actual interstellar travel, so I don't know what you're looking for on that front.

 

[Omega613]

So what you're both are basically saying is that Reki Kawahara the author of SAO is wrong?

 

[Ionliosite]

So what you're both are basically saying is that Reki Kawahara the author of SAO is wrong?

If you're Reki, then yes. If you aren't Reki, then no. I'm just stating the facts on the novel itself.

 

[Omega613]

If you're Reki, then yes. If you aren't Reki, then no. I'm just stating the facts on the novel itself.

Did really not see/read Reki's tweet? And I can't believe you'd disagree with the one who actually made SAO (not me btw). Reki is clearly using imagery when he's describing what's happening. And you clearly don't know what imagery is. What you're basically saying is that if I'm the author, which I'm not, I would be the one who's wrong. Incredible I can't believe fans of the show/novel would actually disagree with the one who made it. I'm basically just stating what Reki himself has said.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Did really not see/read Reki's tweet? And I can't believe you'd disagree with the one who actually made SAO (not me btw). Reki is clearly using imagery when he's describing what's happening. And you clearly don't know what imagery is. What you're basically saying is that if I'm the author, which I'm not, I would be the one who's wrong. Incredible I can't believe fans of the show/novel would actually disagree with the one who made it. I'm basically just stating what Reki himself has said.

It wouldn’t matter if Reki is saying what you are saying and the intent is the same because the novel disagrees. If Reki said that Kirito is 83 in the opening scene of Alicization with Eugeo and Alice as kids, no one is gonna even bother with that statement since it’s wrong and blatantly contradicts the novel. Likewise, the Underworld “Milky Way” can’t be a simple backdrop if Kirito affects it with raw power.

It’s the same with this “player accessibility” argument. Red Dead Redemtion takes place in America and is an open world game but there is a limit to where the Player can go in the game. Are you trying to tell me that just because I can’t hop on a boat to Paris or step foot outside of the designated game area, the rest of Earth just doesn’t exist in RDR? If that’s your stance, knock yourself out but no one is going to agree with what you are arguing because it’s objectively wrong.

 

[Ionliosite]

Incredible I can't believe fans of the show/novel would actually disagree with the one who made it.

This site uses Death of the Author a lot. I myself don't like it, but that's how it works in here.

 

[Zencha9]

I mean if the author contradicts his works then his statements will be invalid according to this site's rules
But it doesn't matter since he's obviously referring to planet not the overall universe lol

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

It can mean universe but more likely refers to space. Japanese can be wildly variable by context and blatantly ignoring that doesn't explain other details in the text like the planet distinctly not feeling any of the shaking.

I just read a complete fan translation of Unital Ring IV and saw no scans of "Nobody on the planet not feeling any shaking at all". So yea. The kanji used here was universe.

 

[Xmark12]

I just read a complete fan translation of Unital Ring IV and saw no scans of "Nobody on the planet not feeling any shaking at all". So yea. The kanji used here was universe.

Link to the fan translation?

 

[Star_King_Demon_Lord]

Link to the fan translation?

I just sent it to you on Discord

 

[Cyberblader90]

minor update:

Mr. Kawahara, I have a few questions, if I may?

1.) Are the stars of the underworld and the Milky Way real?
2.) Did Kirito shake the Earth in his battle with the Subtilizer?
3.) Did the people of the Underworld feel the tremors during the top secret battle with the Abyss Horror?

1.)いまのところ、太陽と2つの惑星以外の星は球状に投射された映像です。
2.3.)「揺れ」という言葉の定義が問題になります。アンダーワールドには気体分子が存在しないので、どれほど大きな爆発でも、現実世界と同じ意味での衝撃波は発生しません。

しかし、心意システムによる巨大な《事象の書き換え》が発生すると、空間そのものが振動することが示唆されています。その意味では、キリトとガブリエル、キリトとアビッサル・ホラーの戦いによってアンダーワールドが揺れ、一部の人はそれを感じたということは有り得るでしょう。

Translation by Arc7:
1. As of now, all the stars except the sun and the two planets are spherically projected images.
2. The definition of "shaking" is important. Since there's no gas molecules in the Underworld, regardless of the explosion, it will not generate the same shock wave in the real world.
3. However, it appears the massive rewriting event of the mind system vibrated the very space itself. That means it's possible Kirito and Gabriel and Kirito and Abyssal Horror's battles shook the underworld, and people felt it.

 

[DMUA]

So, in order...

1. Confirmation that it's a skybox and there aren't any actual stars besides the sun
2. Shaking in the underworld isn't an actual AP feat because there's no shockwave in the sense of moving molecules or anything like that, it's just messing with space which inherently cannot be calculated
3. Reki being like "it's possible" suggests that it's not something he'd know for sure and actively intend when describing how the world or space shook

 

[RitsuØ1]

1. As of now, all the stars except the sun and the two planets are spherically projected images.
2. The definition of "shaking" is important. Since there's no gas molecules in the Underworld, regardless of the explosion, it will not generate the same shock wave in the real world.
3. However, it appears the massive rewriting event of the mind system vibrated the very space itself. That means it's possible Kirito and Gabriel and Kirito and Abyssal Horror's battles shook the underworld, and people felt it.

• #1 really gets my attention cuz' it says As of now.
• #2 seems like that the Underworld can generate shockwaves, just not the same shockwaves that is projected in the Real World.
• #3 seems like Low 6-B can get a likely/possibly rating. I know that the official translation said that Space Shook. 宇宙 (Uchū) refers to outer space at least, aka the majority of the universe minus the basics (planets, stars, etc.). Again, from #1, it said As of now, probably meaning that the stars will become real later.

 

[DMUA]

as of now means it's how it is at the time of the """"""Feat""""" which is invalided by the following statements

 

[Kaantantr]

#1 really gets my attention cuz' it says As of now.

The fact that you need to mention this just showcases you have not been following anything that has been said about how the world functions. It's what I have been saying since I first arrived here that you did not want to believe, so not sure what you are trying to achieve by now pointing out that this is the case.

Since I first arrived and have been extensively explaining how the Cardinal System functions, that was the one thing I kept saying over and over. Cardinal only creates to adapt to the new circumstances. It will not create a new planet, if people are limited to a small village.

This should have gotten your attention weeks or months ago when I first mentioned it.

#2 seems like that the Underworld can generate shockwaves, just not the same shockwaves that is projected in the Real World.

Your persistence of not understanding basic language is baffling. He literally said "It is not the same shockwave in the sense you know from the real world". That means it is not a shockwave by real world standards.

#3 seems like Low 6-B can get a likely/possibly rating. I know that the official translation said that Space Shook which refers to outer space, aka majority of the universe minus the basics (Planets, Stars, etc.). Again, from #1, it said As of now, probably meaning that the stars will become real later.

Reki has a habit of not answering with clear statements, when he doesn't want people running off with vague ideas, that's why he uses "I like to think" or "It is possible" or "it could be that", none of which are statements, none of which are canon.

I can go onto explain why it is indeed possible and what exactly it is referring to, but I'll save my explanations for someone who actually listens to explanations, rather than someone desperately trying to wank up a character, as you have proven to never listen to extensive explanations and come back weeks after with a statement from the author confirming what was said with direct citations from the books all that time ago as if you made a groundbreaking discovery, which in fact literally just destroys every single argument you were trying to present back then...

 

[Kaantantr]

I should add, the stars will likely never become real, since the humans will likely never go colonizing that much real estate. Underworld is limited regarding its number of citizens due to there only being ~80k Lightcubes iirc. There was a point in exploring a second planet, because on Cardina, life can only exist within a very small portion of the planet and Dark Territory mostly remains barren too. But they will never have enough people alive in Underworld to ever need to explore the space further.

So again, while everything is indeed possible in fiction, there is no point in mentioning all the miniscule possibilities just for the sake of mentioning them without a point.

 

[RitsuØ1]

and come back weeks after with a statement from the author confirming what was said with direct citations from the books all that time ago as if you made a groundbreaking discovery, which in fact literally just destroys every single argument you were trying to present back then...

I was only gone for like a week due to personal reasons. Do you seriously think I don't have a life outside of VS Battles? I had to run a lot of errands as school is starting soon for me. I also had lots of seizures like a week ago. I honestly feel very attacked.

 

[RitsuØ1]

I was only gone for like a week due to personal reasons. Do you seriously think I don't have a life outside of VS Battles? I had to run a lot of errands as school is starting soon for me. I also had lots of seizures like a week ago. I honestly feel very attacked.

I should also add that I tend to forget lots of things from time to time due to health conditions.

 

[DMUA]

he means while you were here, this was pointed out multiple times but only now do you seem to comprehend it

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Wait a minute. Want to ask something.

1.) Are the stars of the underworld and the Milky Way real?
2.) Did Kirito shake the Earth in his battle with the Subtilizer?
3.) Did the people of the Underworld feel the tremors during the top secret battle with the Abyss Horror?

Who was the one that asked these questions? A random twitter fan?

 

[RitsuØ1]

he means while you were here, this was pointed out multiple times but only now do you seem to comprehend it

OK. That was bad on my end. I'll try to comprehend from now on.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Wait a minute. Want to ask something.

Who was the one that asked these questions? A random twitter fan?

random ye

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

random ye

Okay so...why is it that this twitter tweet is taken seriously? Like, at all?

Our site explicitly bans the use of social media answers towards random fan questions used to extract specific information like shown here.

 

[Cyberblader90]

.......
the downgrades used such tweets

 

[RitsuØ1]

Our site explicitly bans the use of social media answers towards random fan questions used to extract specific information like shown here.

The downgrade used tweets from random fan questions on Twitter...