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PsychoWarper

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Alright so looking over Orions skills and NPs I feel like hes potentially missing some abilities as well as some things in his stats.

Artemis Agnos: Moon Goddess' Innocent Affections
Agnos is a B rank Anti-Army Noble Phantasm that works by Artemis pouring her love into Orion increasing his strength turning him into a One Man Army.

I would say that would at least warrent a "Higher with Artemis Agnos" rating for his NP, I dont think it qualifies for a "High 6-C" rating like Caladbolg since its obviously a much lower rank at B to A+ but ill see what others think

Orion Orkos: There is No Beast That My Arrow Can't Reach
This is a two time use NP that uses Arrows forged by Hephaestus using Achilles' Akhilleus Kosmos and Diatrekhōn Astēr Lonkhē, it is described as "A plain and simple Noble Phantasm, it is an arrow that can pierce through Gods, reaching orbit in no time"

I would say this warrants a "At least 4-C, likely 2-A" rating due to the fact that it uses the Akhilleus Kosmos and Diatrekhōn Astēr Lonkhē combination which already has said rating on Achilles profile and the fact its literally stated to pierce gods.

Id also say that it could get either a full "Massively FTL+" rating or a "possibly Massively FTL+" due to being stated to be capable to piercing and in turn hitting gods such as Artemis who has "At least Massively Hypersonic, likely Massively FTL+ combat speed (Managed to shoot Orion's arrow twice)" this for her true form.

Also this should be mentioned in the Weakness section "This can be only used twice and this use heavy amount of mana, enough to put Orion in near death after using all of it"

ߢê¤ü¤ä¤à╬│╬»╬▒ Amore Mio: It is I, The One Who Shot Down a Goddess
Now this would obviously get the same rating as the above simply being quoted as being stronger (And it my qualify as just pure 2-A) but the problem is it requires him to sacrifice his Grand Title which as a normal servant he doesnt have so id personally say just have it as a "Higher" with ߢê¤ü¤ä¤à╬│╬»╬▒ Amore Mio" in his Grand key.

Stout Arm of Brutality
"The stout arms that strangled a lion. In front of that simple violence, even demonic beings and Phantasmal Beasts run in fear. Tearing off coins is his strong point, and he can crush even the chin of Cerberus."

So id say the the whole causing "Demonic beings and Phantasmal Beasts to run in fear" could possibly be Fear Manipulation but I could see an argument against it so ill let it be discussed.

Now for potential AP related id say it would at least grant a "Higher" rating.
 
Disagree with fear manip, it's just them being scared of him because he's great at killing them.

Everything else no comment
 
Alright, I can definitely understand what you mean I just wanted to bring it up to check off the bases.
 
Orion Orkos is only available in Grand. That is why it's just 2-A, his normal strength should be 2-A. Higher for Amore Mio is fine. Higher for Brutality is fine too. IA's stamina is okay.

Also Artemis and other peeps scaling to her should be 4-B for Artemis creating Orion Constellation. I think it's brought up by general discussion by now.
 
I don't mind everything else, but I'd question him having the arrows of that one special occasion in a singularity as standard equipment, especially when he used them up.

Everything else is alright.

Also, we shouldn't assume the Servant has a master of any sort, that should only go if we are using Fujimura. They have shown they can operate easily while being far away or just be doing their own thing when existing in the singularities under peculiar circumstances.
 
Those are peculiar circumstances though.

Singularity mana is held up by a grail and the feedback loop created by the Servants interacting with the Singularity to generate Mystery. Lostbelt mana and stability is supplied by its King and Quixiotic Tree.

Honestly, if we're going to introduce mana mechanisms into these VS battles we might as well remove all the existing ones and ban debates on Servants--it's inevitably going to devolve into 'mana enough' 'mana not enough' 'master dies' 'master doesn't die'.

My opinion: we have to handwave this one unless we're talking Ritsuka, in which case the debate would centre around him/her.
 
the amp of Stout Arm of Brutality should put him at High 6-C since Cerberus is the divine beast of Hades, so he's superior to Rider's pegasus
 
Scaling feats.

But even if they do have the same rank, that still proves that Divine Beasts are not automatically superior to Phantasmal Beasts because those two are equal.
 
Even the Pegasus notes that its defensive power is drastic and has gotten on the level of the dragon species.

Magical Beasts aren't cut and dry, despite their rankings they will differ greatly. On top of that, Cerberus' lacks Hades blessings', making him much weaker than normal.

The description does note that even a single lightning from the Bulls has as much magical energy as a blow from Saber putting every ounce of power into it, which they create casually, so they are indeed stronger than most Servants in pure power, but not by much and is not really drastic.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
On top of that, Cerberus' lacks Hades blessings', making him much weaker than normal.
Only Avenger Heracle's Cerberus lack the blessing tho

The version Orion beat is very much likely to be the one with blessings
 
1. The feat very likely refers to something Orion did was was alive aka Age of Gods

2. Even if it's something made by servant Orion, he's is part of the Greek Singularity where gods are very clearly still alive

So Hades was 100% surelly alive to give Cerberous his blessings
 
Yeah, seems like it was something he did in his myth when alive.

So he doesn't scale to Cerberus even if Cerberus was indeed that powerful. The feat was subliminated as a skill, doesn't mean he has that level of power.
 
Because Servants are severely depowered and skills many times represent facets of stuff they do in myths to justify why they have them...?

Kinda like the riding skill that lets you ride things you've never seen to represent the superb skill with mounts? Or Shakespeare with Enchant. I can assure you the completely normal dude couldn't magically enhance things just because he could write pretty good.
 
Riding is not just what they rode, it's their overall riding ability

Enchant is becuase Shakespeare rewrites the history of the object, with history being the key component of the strenght of an object
 
Cerberus is only High 6-C in hell because of the feat in F/SF when it tanked Excalibur with ease. Other than that it should be just 6-C considering Mandricardo can take it.
 
Keep in mind that Leonhardt's Excalibur is highly variable in power, as he can control it much more than Arthuria ever could depending on what he brands as Excalibur and how much mana he puts into it.
 
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