Sundown vs Hitori Tachibana

[GyroNutz]

First key 9-B for both. Thanks to ZackMoon for the idea.

Speed is equal, I can change if needed.

Sundown has 3 molotov cocktails.

Who wins and why?

Sundown:

Hitori Tachibana: 3

Inconclusive:

 

[ZackMoon1234]

There's no known speed for the both of them, so it shouldn't matter much for now, as is the same with all their other stats

Hitori has minor Regenerationn which can heal cuts and burns while also having Iwatoshi and able to transform into Oniwakamaru (his other Key) if he wants (although Oniwakamaru can forcefully take over, but unknown if he can still do so as Hitori likely mastered his powers in the end so Hitori can permit him if needed)

As Oniwakamaru, he can regenerate his arm, and use Fire and Hair manip for long range to keep up with the discrepancy of the range

Musashibō Benkei (Oniwakamaru The Visitor)'s soul is inside Iwatoshi so he could probably reappear from it as he doesn't have a real body, and HT currently owns Iwatoshi and Benkei is inside HT's body as the 501st human inside him, so he should be able to summon him

Said Benkei is intangible as he's a ghost, Can possess the body of people, Can control items with his mind, and is comparable to HT as they kept up with each other when fighting

What does Sundown start with?

It seems like his first Key has these as the ones I think are notable abilities, although his FM is limited as he only has 3 MC

Explosion Manipulation and Statistics Reduction (Via Hollow Point Shot)

Fire Manipulation (Via Molotov Cocktails)

What advantages do you think Sundown has over HT?

 

[GyroNutz]

A willing to kill Sundown would lead by quick-shooting his opponent several times. He's used to fighting people who take multiple shots to go down, so he's not gonna hold back at just gunning his opponent down.

Judging by HT's profile, Sundown seems to be more skilled and experienced, being a prodigy duelist who's had a large bounty on his head for decades. The fact that he uses bullets as well helps due to piercing damage somewhat ignoring durability (to an extent). If Sundown is harmed, he has a few items that he can use to heal himself to keep him in the game longer, if needed.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Those bullets should be easy to repel with his sword or dodge since he can react to bullet shots in close range - https://i.imgur.com/ZaWA7bM.png / https://i.imgur.com/EuFAid4.png

Yeah, HT isn't that skilled while Oniwakamaru should have a lot of experience as he's proclaimed as the King of the Yokai, a race of demons who prostrated themselves due to his overwhelming power, known of killing enough humans to make a lake of their blood, and a mountain of their corpses. Oniwakamaru probably lived for thousands of years as he was trapped for 1k+ years as a soul prior to the story since demons can't die easily, and with his reputation before that, he probably has a lot of experience

Even then, the distance gap should be easy to close down since he can move really high instantly - https://i.imgur.com/jro2YZU.png

I'm assuming this dude can't really fight CQC since he primarily uses a gun, shown in his AP ("fights exclusively with firearms"), so HT or Oni will pressure him CQC while Benkei will just use his Telekinesis to use the items around the area to attack Sundown while he's getting pressured and he's intangible so he can't be hurt

And it seems like he's unwilling to kill in-character, so this could be one of his downfalls

 

[GyroNutz]

Well they both scale to gunshots so I'm assuming Hitori is high into Subsonic. Sundown has a minimum speed advantage of 2.2x though, and unlike those two goons who Hitori outmaneuvered, Sundown can tag people who can dodge gunfire, and is skilled enough to tag Hitori mid-jump.

He's unwilling to kill in-character but that's ignored by SBA which makes him willing to kill.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

There's no calc for Sundown, so the only speed given to him will be somewhere between 34.3-171.5 m/s or 76.7-383.6 mph

While Hitori Tachibana/Oniwakamaru are far superior to Kasha who could outspeed a car going 125 miles per hour = 55.88 meters per second - https://i.imgur.com/ASMi5Rk.png

And doing the leap which led them high into the air - https://i.imgur.com/jro2YZU.png

They're separated by a distance of dozens of meters, which can be instantly reached by HT as his Speed isn't limited to only Attack/Combat/Reaction, but he also has Travel as seen with the other examples above while Sundown only seems to have one of the 3, if not all of them and certainly not Travel, based on his Profile (His firearms should be this fast. Can dodge bullets being fired at him)

Even if Sundown shoots his bullet at him when HT tries to close the distance or goes up into the air, it can still be deflected as I said before then he'll be pressured to CQC immediately after (Since Sundown fights primarily with his guns, and it's not even taking into account HT or the others disarming Sundown by attacking his hands which will be carrying the guns) and even if HT is hurt, Sundown will still have Oniwakamaru to deal with, who'll pressure him even more in CQC and that's not even taking Benkei into consideration who'll increase the pressure on Sundown even more

And they're located at Central Park, New York City, so there's plenty of stuff that Benkei can use to attack Sundown while they can dodge his Molotov Cocktails by going up if Sundown tries throwing it at them, so it'll be a waste for Sundown if he continuously does that since his supplies are limited

Even if the MCs hit HT, he won't really be feeling any damage as seen with Oniwakamaru walking away with it just fine - https://i.imgur.com/NAHXfxZ.png

And this is HT prior to Oniwakamaru taking over saying that he had burns from it, but it's gone as it's healed, while also before HT had full control of Oniwakamaru's power, so he isn't gonna get affected by them - https://i.imgur.com/niLwMIY.png

Sundown can still win if he can pressure Hitori enough to deal with him before he can summon Benkei, which is unlikely because he'll be using Iwatoshi, which houses Benkei's soul; or Oniwakamaru but that's also unlikely since he'll be coming out if he deems HT to be in danger. They both can be unused if HT dies before the instances explained above happens, meaning Oniwakamaru and likely Benkei will die if HT dies as their souls are together inside him as of now

Count me in for Hitori Tachibana - 7/10

 

[GyroNutz]

Sundown is Supersonic in speed, not Subsonic. I'll look over the rest in a moment

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Dang, I read the profile wrong

Where's the calc for the speed?

His Speed states (His firearms should be this fast) yet there's no Calc

Even then, HT still dodged bullets from close-range so there shouldn't be much of a difference although I don't know how fast an actual bullet is so I put his Speed at the minimum, which is the Kasha feat

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Bump

I put this in Triforce's Voting Realm so it's up to them to vote who they think will win based on the arguments above

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Bump

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Bump

Since Speed is unequal, it should be Equalized as Hitori Tachibana is Subsonic (If you convert Kasha's speed then Kasha is Mach 0.16 so HT scales above him by being superior) while Sundown is Supersonic (His Profile states that his firearms should be this fast, so I believe they meant his bullets and since Google says that average bullet travels at 2,500 feet per second (around 1,700 mph), converting them to Mach will give us a result of Mach 2.24)

Subsonic is Mach 0.1-0.5 while Supersonic is Mach 1.1-2.5.

If we were to use the basic Speeds along with HT's Speed, then 1.1/0.1 is a difference of 11 while 2.5/0.1 is a difference of 25 while 1.1/0.16 is a difference of 6.87500x while 2.5/0.16 is a difference of 15.62500

If we were to use the converted Speeds for the both of them, then 2.24/0.16 is a difference of 14, which will be enough to horribly blitz HT to hell and back

Moving on, I'll assume the Speed is Equal otherwise this match can't take place, which should be equalized though

I guess I'll summarize the match in here based on what I think it concludes into

tl;dr - Hitori Tachibana via being able to handle the fire without fear from the 3 Molotov Cocktails that Sundown has (He only has 3 MCs so his supplies are limited) in which he'll still get burns although he can regenerate his burns overtime. He can summon Musashibō Benkei as he's inside Iwatoshi so Benkei is Intangible so Sundown likely can't hurt him, he can possess Sundown, and he can control the objects around him so Sundown will have to handle the objects around them coming at him while also dealing with HT and MB themselves. HT can get near Sundown instantly by leaping and even though Sundown can shoot bullets at him, it can be dodged or repelled. Sundown will be pressured in CQC even though he likely has the experience advantage as he fights exclusively with his firearms, so they can likely take it away from him during their CQC. Oniwakamaru can come out of HT if needed so Sundown will also have to deal with him who can regenerate his arm although MB and Oniwakamaru will perish if Sundown is able to take out HT.

Higher level of tl;dr - Hitori Tachibana wins

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Bump

 

[Ionliosite]

Hitori Tachibana FRA

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

Tach fra

 

[GyroNutz]

We spoke about the speed on my wall, so I did a bit of digging. Sundown's gun is comparable or inferior to .44 magnums (he gets these later in the game and they don't provide an upgrade to speed iirc) which fire at 1,200 feet per second.

Which is actually transonic (365.76 m/s).

Your vote was based on if speed was equal. I'll count it for now and make a quick CRT, but chances are the votes and the FRAs may be wrong.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

I'm pretty sure Sundown should outright just be 9-C instead of having a likely 9-B.

His ultimate gun, which seems to be the .44 Magnum as said in his Live-A-Live Wiki (Not VSBW), is able to exert somewhere around 1,000+ worth of Joules while his Peacemaker (Colt Single Action Army) is able to exert somewhere around 500-700+ worth of Joules.

9-C's Joules standard goes from 3x10^2 to 1.5x10^4, meaning 300 Joules to 15,000 Joules, something that his guns won't be able to achieve or go above in terms of Joules.

'Fights exclusively with firearms, can harm and kill horses. Defeated O. Dio'

So he's pretty much just harming his opponents with either 500-700+ or 1,000+ worth of Joules using his guns, something that shouldn't even give him the likelihood of a 9-B rating


Introduced in 1950, the .44 Magnum had both the energy and speed gun owners wanted. It delivered 767 foot pounds of energy against targets, and at 1,200 feet per second achieved supersonic speed.

Converting the foot-pounds to Joules, it's 1039.912 worth of J, which seems to be consistent with the information given in here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.44_Magnum


The original .45 Colt black-powder load of 40 grains propelled the 250―255 grain bullet at a nominal 970 feet per second (300 m/s).

Using an online calculator for Kinetic Energy, I got somewhere around 708.028 J

Specifications for 20th-century smokeless loads set velocity with a 255-grain (16.5 g) round-nosed flat-point bullet at 870 feet per second (270 m/s) providing 429-foot-pound-force (582 J) energy.

Although using a calc online, I got 601.425 J but they're overall close


https://www.quora.com/What-was-the-most-powerful-revolver-of-the-Western-era

Looks like the Colt Single Action Army could produce 565 foot pounds of kinetic energy, although I got 767.552 J converting the grain bullet and speed using the info given