- 19,527
- 17,170
EC's Carapace scales above via Metal Knight wanting it to improve his weapon development. It was stated that Metal Knight can harm the HA building with his weapons, so EC scales.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
STRONGEST One-Punch Man Discussion Thread!
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
- 4,037
- 2,843
Hmm. I could get behind that scaling chain. What do the others think?
- 1,013
- 428
I agree with this. We just need to re-calc the HQ's durability since it only took a small fraction of the blast that took out A-City.
- 4,037
- 2,843
I see. It would directly affect all those that are currently 7-B scaling from EC, whatever the results end up being.
- 1,984
- 1,235
I agree. Didn't By Asura say the HQ took something like 0.7 Gigatons or I'm just being dumb?
- 4,037
- 2,843
Would you be willing to make a blog for this? If EC's carapace is really an improvement on the alloys Metal Knight has, that implies that EC could have tanked the bombardment and would affect scaling for all current 7-Bs. If the results really are 7-A+, that would be awfully convenient...
- 3,193
- 2,694
- 20,607
- 17,607
Yes. The only it wouldn't be calc stacking is if the rush occurred when Gatling fired a bullet.
- 3,193
- 2,694
Another thing about EC, in his profile it's said that Orochi thought EC was comparable to Gouketsu, but when was this, and why is it on his post-molting key? In all the flashbacks with EC coming from Orochi, it showed him pre-molting, and that makes sense given that Orochi probably wasn't even aware that EC molted, it's never brought up by Phoenix Man who may not even know EC has that ability, and other monsters and MA members don't mention it either.
I find it a bit hard to believe that Gouketsu is above EC as when we first saw him, or that Gouketsu could walk off the Bang/Bomb combo move like EC did.
I find it a bit hard to believe that Gouketsu is above EC as when we first saw him, or that Gouketsu could walk off the Bang/Bomb combo move like EC did.
- 25,099
- 27,283
It was around 7-A+, yes
I still disagree with this, because whatever speed we try to use, it Will always be an immense lowball of EC's actual speed. And we can't use High Hypseonic as that would be calc stacking
- 25,099
- 27,283
We agreed that only post molt scales because that's where the statement of EC being equal or superior to Gouketsu comes from, post molt EC was the form of EC Geno's fought.
And scaling to pre molt caused scaling contradictions
- 25,099
- 27,283
We agreed that only post molt scales because that's where the statement of EC being equal or superior to Gouketsu comes from, post molt EC was the form of EC Geno's fought.
And scaling to pre molt caused scaling contradictions.
- 4,381
- 1,314
Or multiple sonic booms not sure.
- 19,527
- 17,170
When Orochi said that, it showed Pre-Molt iirc.
What contradictions?
- 25,099
- 27,283
Did you not read the CRT...
- 19,527
- 17,170
Can you tell me what contradictions please?
- 19,527
- 17,170
Most likely sonic booms.There seems to be something of a vapor cone forming around Elder Centipede as he moves to intercept Genos's blast.
Or multiple sonic booms not sure.
- 25,099
- 27,283
Bruh. I'mma just copy and paste everything:
Also while revising the scaling chain, I noticed something odd. Mainly about Carnage Kabuto, Rover and Darkshine
I'll tackle CK first. So this is Carnage Kabuto's scaling chain:
So as shown, Carnage Kabuto scales above Gouketsu. But here's the problem, we list CK as inferior to Gouketsu off of the basis that a Gouketsu who was barely trying against Genos, and Genos stated that Gouketsu was by far the strongest monster he had seen by that point, and he has only seen a fraction of Gouketsu's power, but has seen Carnage Kabuto's full power in the past several times.
So by Genos' statement. Gouketsu is stronger than Carnage Kabuto. Which does line up with the evidence. But the scaling chain kinda says otherwise. I dunno what to do here, I'll leave this one up to ya'll
And for Darkshine and Rover. Ya'll remember the scaling chain I placed above? I realized placing bang and bomb does contradict quite some things.
So Base Bang and Bomb being superior to Darkshine would mean that Rover is much stronger than Darkshine. Which also leads to the inital Half monster Garou durability to exceed Darkshine's which makes no sense considering we see how easy Darkshine rekt Half monster Garou when they first fought, and Garou only gets stronger from then on. And do you all see what I mean?
Base Bang and Bomb being superior to darkshine in AP or durability doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and only creates scaling contradictions and circular scaling, which leads to greater confusion.
This can all be easily cleaned up: Only Post Molt Elder Centipede should scale to possibly 7-A+
This is mainly due to the fact that Post Molt EC is the one that Genos fought and vaguely describes as more powerful than Gouketsu. So with that in mind. Only those who scale to Post Molt EC, shall receive Possibly 7-A, that being:
- Post-Superfight Genos' Ultra Spiral Incineration Cannon should be "At least City level, possibly Mountain level+" as he could significantly harm Elder Centipede but not completely. And before anyone asks, no, this should not scale to his base stats nor should his post elder centipede key as A. It's heavily contradictory to the scaling of things B. Base Post Superfight Genos isn't even the level of a threat level dragon at this time of the story and C. there is nothing to show that Post Elder centipede Genos' physicals scale to this Ultra Spiral incineration cannon.
- Bang's second key, his awakened breath mode, as he needed it to go against Post Molt EC
- Current Half Monster Garou, who can fight on par with Awakened breath bang
Courtesy of @ImposingTiger, the current scale above would like this FYI:
Elder Centipede post molting > Gouketsu > CK = Darkshine's AP > Garou's durability against Darkshine initially >= Garou's durability against Rover <= Rover's AP > Base Bang/Bomb > Elder Centipede pre molt
- 3,193
- 2,694
Where is that statement, though? That was a question I asked but wasn't answered.
Also, what scaling contradictions? I didn't see the CRT
- 25,099
- 27,283
Isn't it on his profile?
I placed my entire argument above this post.
- 19,527
- 17,170
I think it's more like this:
Carnage Kabuto ≈ Superalloy Darkshine's AP > Garou's durability against Darkshine initially > Garou's durability against Rover < Overgrown Rover's AP > Base Bang < Overgrown Rover's Durability > Elder centipede pre-molt => Gouketsu < Elder centipede post-molt
Carnage Kabuto ≈ Superalloy Darkshine's AP > Garou's durability against Darkshine initially > Garou's durability against Rover < Overgrown Rover's AP > Base Bang < Overgrown Rover's Durability > Elder centipede pre-molt => Gouketsu < Elder centipede post-molt
- 3,193
- 2,694
Strongest he had faced, I believe was what he said, which wouldn't include Carnage Mode.
I can buy Base CK being maybe a little weaker than Gouketsu, because of how the story portrays them and due to the VGS.
-CK took doen Genos with two punches while playing around.
-Gouketsu took down a greatly damaged Genos (from fighting Awakened Cockroach and Face Ripper) in just one.
-In the VGS, CK one-shots Genos every time he tries to fight him, based on the laugh we hear we can assume that was just him playing around as well or not taking it as seriously as he would in a properly serious battle.
Being an S-Class hero, Gouketsu had no reason to take it easy with Genos, and that punch was likely pretty serious, if not as strong as Gouketsu deemed necessary for an S-Class hero which would've been a lot, especially when Genos shines within the S-Class when it comes to destructive power.
I'd say Carnage Mode CK should be on the same level if not above Gouketsu, considering Gouketsu's feat on Genos is only a little more impressive than what Base CK did, VGS-wise or within the story.
Doesn't Darkshine confirm during their first battle that Bang (and likely Bomb) is above Garou when the two fight?
Not what Orochi said, that's definitely not on EC's profile.
The statement used from Gyoro Gyoro is for Pre-Molting EC, as Bang or Genos alone wouldn't have been enough on their own. Are we to believe Gouketsu would've stood a chance against Bang, Bomb and Post-Gouketsu Genos, or dish out their combo move? I can see only a few non-Orochi/Boros level monsters being able to do that, like Golden Sperm, Rover, ENW and as we saw, EC.
And why does Genos scale to hurting EC when he only aimed at the eyes or the centipede's insides, which are EC's more vulnerable parts? Only Bang and Bomb ever did any damage to his carapace.
- 25,099
- 27,283
Did you not read my post? I already stated that Gouketsu is stated to be stronger than Carnage Kabuto.
- 19,527
- 17,170
Where?
- 25,099
- 27,283
He doesn't mention Bang nor Bomb
- 25,099
- 27,283
- 25,099
- 27,283
He doesn't? He only scales with one specific attack, and that attack broke his shell.
- 1,013
- 428
Well if the new scaling involving EC and Metal Knight is accepted then all those mentioned on that scaling chain are around the same level as Gouketsu. I can finally make some more OPM matchups with Gouketsu 
- 25,099
- 27,283
Why does he have reason to? I doubt he would use 7-A+ power against a High 7-C being. Especially when we know Gouketsu can sense power levels.
He was literally going all out.
- 25,099
- 27,283
- 19,527
- 17,170
Why wouldn't we when it was stated that they were comparable in power?
- 1,013
- 428
I might have missed the CRT that did this, but why does Vaccine Man have town level durability? I feel like it should just be unknown since we never saw his full capabilities aside from his energy balls. TBH town level durability feels like downplay.
- 19,527
- 17,170
He was in the epicenter of one of his 7-B blasts. His page should be changed.
- 1,013
- 428
^This
- 3,193
- 2,694
He does, though? It's right after he goes full power, too.
Fair enough, I had seen scans being used of him cutting through his eyes as evidence, must've been removed or maybe that was something else.
I mean, in the manga Genos doesn't say anything regarding Carnage Mode, assuming he could even percieve CK moving in that state, considering he was speedblitzed by his base state pretty easily (and I doubt Carnage Mode made him slower).
wha
Gouketsu wouldn't have faced Saitama if that was the case, much like CK, unless he's actually an idiot after all the intelligence he displayed, and like CK I doubt he was, and it didn't seem to be a case of overconfidence in that one page Murata drew of Saitama dodging Gouketsu's kick. He ranked the tournament guys based on their appearances (like Volten), performances, attitudes and their new abilities (it's not just power he respects or deems valuable for the MA), and with Bakuzan based on his speed and power given how he trashed Suiryu, most likely. He still ordered those chump fighters to go after Suiryu, if he could've sensed their power he would've only ordered that to Choze, and even then he was still inferior to Suiryu (Gouketsu was also surprised by the result). I'm pretty confident that Gouketsu doesn't have such an ability, he just has a keen sense for fighters who appear powerful superficially.
My question on Orochi's statement for Gouketsu being comparable to post-molting EC still hasn't been answered, most likely because everyone's aware Orochi never compares Gouketsu to a state of EC he doesn't know exists.
- 20,607
- 17,607
I'm just seeing effect lines. We've seen Murata draw sonic booms and vapor cones and those do not match his designs at all.
- 25,099
- 27,283
And that was calced to be 7-C?
- 25,099
- 27,283
He's talking about skill here, the panel I'm referring to is Darkshine talking about how Atomic or flash or Tats could've easily killed him before Garou reacted
- 22,455
- 18,680
He doesn't outright suggest it's superior to armour. He just wants to use it for some sort of weapon development. But sure, I'll do the blog.
Like Carioca says, we should probably get some translations from the Japanese scan.
