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Steven vs. Not Ness

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That should be taken to versus thread removal, as it is not about a new skill but a (possibly right or wrong) claim.
 
I'll look through them and make a list. Until then, more input about his attacks being intang or not would help
 
Just wanna get my vote down before this thread is abandoned forever. Voting Steven for lack of consistent way of Sans getting past his defenses.
 
Actually, it looks like Sans' attack are intangeble, so Steven's bubble and shield are pretty much worthless. It's a pretty big revision for Sans and will be effecting most of his previous matches.

That being considered, this is probably a decisive victory for Sans now. Steven's only real advantage against Sans was his bubble allowing him to out last Sans and then one-shoting him with a casual arm swing. Now Sans plays Steven like most every other character with a massive tier gap.
 
Adding this is litirally useless. There wasn't really any arguments against sans attacks being intangible, which makes most of the reasonings wrong.
 
ApiesDeathbyLazors said:
Actually, it looks like Sans' attack are intangeble, so Steven's bubble and shield are pretty much worthless. It's a pretty big revision for Sans and will be effecting most of his previous matches.

That being considered, this is probably a decisive victory for Sans now. Steven's only real advantage against Sans was his bubble allowing him to out last Sans and then one-shoting him with a casual arm swing. Now Sans plays Steven like most every other character with a massive tier gap.
Click to expand...
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Adding this is litirally useless. There wasn't really any arguments against sans attacks being intangible, which makes most of the reasonings wrong.
Click to expand...
 
Just pointing out that Steven has the range advantage. Several kilometers to dozens of meters. They start 4 kilometers away thanks to SBA.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
He crossed from snowland to hotland relativly easily, it would take three or four teleports at most.
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I feel like that should be mentioned on his profile then. Also, it's been a while sense I played, when was that?
 
When you call while undyne just went to papyrus. He talks to you right after you meet him.

Plus, there is the fact that steven doesn't really abuse range all that much kinda helps.
 
I don't think Sans's teleporting is a factor here, as he doesn't seem to use it all that effectively in battle, otherwise he could literally always pull a "teleports behind you" move.
 
I brought it up for closing the distance. He uses teleportation on others more than himself in-battle.


What are the arguments for steven that would still be acceptable with the bones passing through his defenses?
 
The fact that everything else in Sans's arsenal most likely couldn't hurt him or is questionable at best to be effectively used against Steven. (i.e. soul manipulation is pretty up in the air.) I would also like to point out that Sans's damage come of virtue of 2 things, them constantly hitting you, and his Karma attacks, the latter of which is useless against Steven and Steven would basically have to stay in one place for the former to work. Here's my opinion on the category's each character takes. Attack Potency: Steven>Sans Speed: Steven<Sans Lifting Strength: Steven>Sans Striking Strength: Steven>Sans Durability: Steven>Sans Stamina: Steven>Sans (Biggest factor against Sans here.) Range: Steven<Sans (Not sure about this one but I'll give it to Sans.) Intelligence: Steven=Sans (The difference is pretty minimal.) Steven just has more things going for him in this fight.
 
Why wouldn't his arsenal hurt him..? Litirally everythging sans uses ignores durability due to attacking the soul.

No, again. If he damaged you through contstantly hitting you then he would be 7-C. He ignores durability plain, and gaain, hits the soul, so dura is useless here.
 
There are no reasons given for them not to, and I asked twice for them. We are mostly waiting for azatoths input.
 
Again though, it's pretty dubious as to whether Steven even HAS a soul to begin with. Everything that he is, his whole lifeforce, stems from his gemstone, so the simple fact is that it doesn't make sense for Steven to have a soul. Also ignoring STEVEN'S dura shouldn't ignore his shield and bubble's dura, otherwise armor would be useless against Sans, which it isn't.
 
Then make a CRT to add immunity to soul manip to Stevens profile, because that shouldn't be argued here.

Dude, the attacks would pass right through them.
 
Yes, but in Undertale, it's implied that a Human or Monster's lifeforce comes from their soul, but Steven's lifeforce comes from his gem, so it literally doesn't make sense for him to have a soul.
 
CinnabarManx421 said:
Yes, but in Undertale, it's implied that a Human or Monster's lifeforce comes from their soul, but Steven's lifeforce comes from his gem, so it literally doesn't make sense for him to have a soul.
Click to expand...
Again, make a CRT for that, not here.
 
Gems not having souls (which I don't even agree with, but whatever) comes from the fact that their bodies aren't organic (seriously, what does this have to do with souls?); Steven's body is organic, it just happens that he has a Gem in the middle, that's why he can't poof.
 
I'm going to be as nice as possible when I say this.

If it's not on the profiles, make a CRT. Otherwise, keep it out of VS discussions. Please.
 
Ricsi is saying that San's attacks should ignore Steven's dura, but I'm trying to argue that he shouldn't have a soul. Also a soul shouldn't come from him being organic, because I'm pretty sure I remember Mettaton has a soul when you kill him in Genocide. Otherwise you wouldn't get any EXP from him when he dies.
 
You should argue that in a CRT, as this is not the place for that. Mettaton was a ghost that possesed a robot.
 
CinnabarManx421 said:
Also a soul shouldn't come from him being organic, because I'm pretty sure I remember Mettaton has a soul when you kill him in Genocide. Otherwise you wouldn't get any EXP from him when he dies.
Click to expand...
100% agree, what your body is made of should really have no relation to your soul, but it was accepted that "Due to their nature as inorganic beings, Gems lack a soul and are thus immune to soul damage", so there's not much I can do; but Steven is organic, so he should still have a soul regardless of that.
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
You should argue that in a CRT, as this is not the place for that. Mettaton was a ghost that possesed a robot.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with this. Steven not having a soul isn't something I see on his profile, so it's not something that can be used in an argument unless a CRT is made and accepted.

P.S.: I don't have an opinion on this thread, so I'm probably not going to be voting.
 
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