Steven Universe CRT Thing

[Goodyfresh]

[snip]

I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING HERE! The issue is that her stomping two characters who themselves are at least low-end High 6-A still doesn't mean we can assume she is 5-C (even though she obviously is) by THIS WIKI'S standards, since High 6-A has a WIDE range. Now if we were on ComicVine or r/WhoWouldWin, we could make these arguments along with "she was cracked and casual when High 6-A," and everybody would be like "seems legit" and jump on the Tier 5 vague-upscaling bandwagon, LOL; the issue is that this site has MUCH stricter standards than other versus-boards. WHICH IS WHAT I LIKE ABOUT THIS SITE, being honest.

Also can someone see this if it's good
https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/steven-universe-i-am-lapis-lazuli.37192/

That calc looks like it may be correct about the Magnitude 4 thing and it being from an actual impact? SHOULD WE HAVE THE CALC-GROUP MEMBERS TRY TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS, GUYS? I could try posting a link to it there as well as maybe on Dargoo's wall since he is an Admin, Calc Group, AND a verse-supporter for S.U. What do you guys think?

But guys except for Nickobloke NEARLY EVERYONE IS IGNORING THE ISSUE I BROUGHT UP (is it that you guys don't like my walls of text and were like "TL;DR?" I can't blame you, but I was just trying to go through all possible evidence), which is that MONSTER STEVEN WAS NOT ACTUALLY "CORRUPTED," just shape-shifting and emotional, and shouldn't get a separate key and should be considered the absolute high-endl of Pink Form Steven who should have a "varies" tier. What I'm proposing, again, is that we only add a key for Pink Form Steven, not Monster Steven, and give Pink Form the tiering "Varies, from At Least High 7-A up to At Least High 6-A Likely Far Higher, dependent on emotional-state and size-shifting." The At Least High 7-A low-end, again, coming from how hard he stomped Jasper as soon as he "accepted" his true power while still human-sized. We could add an image of Monster Form and a note that it is Pink Steven shapeshifted. This is really the most important issue to address along with overall verse-tiering, as Steven is the character from the Verse most likely to get used in battles, so it's very important to reach an agreement on his keys and how we tier them. We also clearly need to add either Rage Power, or even better Awakened Power, or both probably, to the power-listing for Pink Form Steven's key! Your thoughts, everyone?

 

[Nickobloke]

yeah he wasn't corrupted, just shapeshifting, with full potential pink powers and having a mental breakdown, and goody I wouldn't mind that key for pink Steven.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

makes sense

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Poor Steven. Forever stuck at Tier 6.

 

[Nickobloke]

all because of some stupid assumption right? even though its perfectly sound reasoning and abides by the wikis standards.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

That Lapis calc could be legit

 

[Nickobloke]

it could, look if we could find definitive numbers that required no or at least very little assumption im happy with the diamonds and Steven being boosted to tier 5.

 

[Goodyfresh]

it could, look if we could find definitive numbers that required no or at least very little assumption im happy with the diamonds and Steven being boosted to tier 5.

Exactly. So should I ask the Calc Group and Dargoo to take a look at that Lapis calc that makes her 5-C? Magnitude 4 was probably a low-ball assumption, so it seems legit.

So who else agrees with Nickobloke, based on my reasoning in my posts, that Monster Steven was not truly corrupted and should be considered the high-end of Pink Steven, whose key-tiering should be "varies" (with it starting at At Least High 7-A and up) with a note that Monster Form is the high-end? We can't come to an agreement on this with just one guy pointing it out and another guy agreeing with him, we need input; People, please go back up and read my posts for the reasoning on this; it is VERY important to address it since Steven is the MC. OP (Soupywolf5), what are your thoughts? If people agree, we can change Steven's new keys in the OP to note Monster Steven being Pink Form's high-end and the "varies" tiering with At Least High 7-A low-end. If you guys don't wanna scroll to find the posts again, I can summarize again the OVERWHELMING amounts of sound evidence for my reasoning.

Also we apparently need to try to wrap things up and decide on everything quickly now, or else put them on hold for a while soon, look: Forum-Move Info We don't have long before we have to stop doing CRTs until the forum-move is done, as any work we do during the move will be lost! We may want to only debate stuff about Steven's keys for now, while leaving the verse-tiering (NF Lapis calc) to after the migration? I have inquired with Ant in that thread as to whether we have until April 14, or should just put things on hold for now. So again, ASAP, what are everyone's opinions on the stuff about Monster Steven being the high-end of Pink Steven? I need everyone's input, including the OP, to see if we should change the stuff about Steven's keys. And should I submit that Lapis calc to experts? UPDATE: Ant told me we have until April 14, guys.

 

[Nickobloke]

you could try, its more legit then the last so yeah, but with the new forum change im not sure if we can or should.

 

[DatBoiBrown]

I just want Steven and the Diamonds to be 5-C.

 

[Soupywolf5]

I want them to be High 5-A so I can say Steven stomps Finn and actually mean it

 

[DatBoiBrown]

This man has priorities.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Can people PLEASE give input on the whole "Monster Steven wasn't corrupted jsut the high-end full-potential of Pink Form Steven and thus shouldn't get a separate key" thing? I convinced Nickobloke of it with my reasoning, I need to find out if others are convinced too. In case you didn't notice, I stated in my above post that we have a DEADLINE now to get stuff done by April 14 or else put things on hold until after the forum-move if we aren't done by then. This is an official edict from Antvasima and the Admins, okay?

What that means is that people, I'm sorry since I want to discuss it too, but we **need to put the Tier-5 issue on hold until after the forum-move, as dealing with calcs is going to take a lot, lot longer than the other stuff we are working on**!

So we need to stop the Tier 5 discussion for now, wait until after the Forum-Move for that, and for now discuss the issue of Monster Steven not being corrupted and just being the high-end of Pink Form Steven with shapeshifting and strong emotions. This is literally what we should focus on, ONLY this, since we now have a deadline of 11 more days, and tiering-changes usually take much longer than just a week or two to figure out.

As I said, my idea is that Monster Steven is just Pink Form's High-End and that we should give Pink Form Steven the tiering "Varies, from At Least High 7-A to At Least High 6-A Likely Far Higher, dependent on emotions and shapeshifting" with a note that Monster Steven is the high-end of Pink Form. Nickobloke has agreed with my reasoning for why Monster Steven wasn't actually corrupted and for this tiering for Pink Form. Do others want me to go through my reasoning again so they don't have to scroll a bunch of posts up to read it, or are you guys fine with going back to look? Also we need to add Awakened Power to Pink Form's list of abilities as he clearly gets extreme power-ups from strong emotions (not just rage so it isn't Rage Power).

Please guys, let's just focus on doing what we can actually feasibly get done before we have to stop on April 14, and put the Tier 5 discussion on hold for now.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

makes sense

 

[Soupywolf5]

Yeah, makes sense

 

[Nickobloke]

I don't think he was corrupted, blue may have said it but I feel it was just him shapeshifting with full power potential while having a mental break down, the tiers you have proposed are acceptable as well, that's just me.

 

[Goodyfresh]

Okay so three people including the OP agree that Monster Form is not corrupted and with my idea of the tiering for Pink Form! Thanks guys! Adem Warlock69, sorry I didn't notice that you already responded, I try to catch everything but sometimes I miss something, my bad! Now let's see if others agree, I'd say that if at least one or two of the people who have been prominent in participating agree, and/or nobody voices disagreement with solid evidence, then it may be safe to add to the OP, right? I'm asking, not dictating.

Soupywolf5, if people agree then I'm thinking (it's up to you though) what you'll need to do is change "key for his monster form" in the OP to "key for his Pink Form, with tier 'Varies, from At Least High 7-A to At Least High 6-A Likely Far Higher, dependent on emotions and shapeshifting,' with a note that M.F. is the high-end with its tier from stomping the D's, and the low-end is from stomping Jasper. Also a note that we need Awakened Power among P.F.'s abilities. Sound right? Just trying to help with how to word the OP. Also, you may want to note for the Mods' sake that our reasoning is that all evidence points to M.F. being shapeshifted not corrupted. Sound good, guys?

Nickobloke, also note that when Blue "said" he was "corrupted," she wasn't stating it as fact, she said "is he. . . .corrupted?" She was questioning, not stating it.

 

[CrackNet]

So are the other Lapis's gonna get profiles Also some other characters

 

[Udlmaster]

I've already argued the light thing multiple times, so I'm going to have to go ad nausuem through the random blocks of bold text.

Blue Diamond herself stated "White hasn't left Homeworld in Eons"

Yellow Diamond said that 5000 years, I.E the time before Pink even got her colony properly, was "Nothing".

Since these two statements together proves logically that any attack White, Blue and Yellow made together would have been done from Homeworld, since 5000 years is nothing and "Eons" is a measurement of time meaning either an extremely long time, so, instantly, vastly greater than 5000 years, or it means Billions of years, eitherway, this means the corrupting Light was done from Homeworld.

As for 5-A Steve-Zilla, I mean, it's blatantly obvious he's 5-A, he poofed the hand of the Cluster.

 

[Nickobloke]

first of all, the hand of the cluster is high 6-A, go and look, second we have had a whole very long discussion on this and all agreed to drop it, third go look at the definition of a eon, the first result is an indefinite long amount of time, and 6000 years fits that bill, basing a very large upgrade like that on side quotesthat are never explored isn't enough to justify it, if the blast really was from homeworld the energy needed would have been tier 4 possibly. we have all reached that conclusion here.

 

[Soupywolf5]

It's actually never reached tier 4, it caps at High-end tier 5

 

[Nickobloke]

that was just a point I made, I know, but if the blast really did come from home world from light years away, and it wasn't cylindrical, that's possibly a tier 4 feat, which is waaay to high.

And ive said this many times now: There is no hard evidence to the possibility it came from homeworld outside of those quotes and just simple assumption, if you look at the image of the diamonds hands, they are all pointing down and appear to be in space, likely on their mech, near earth's orbit, yes I know this in itself is not definitive but it is suggestive evidence and works more towards to closer to earth possibility.

 

[Udlmaster]

first of all

You can drop the attitude, first of all.

the hand of the cluster is high 6-A, go and look,
And I've debunked that on another thread, High 5-A Freeza's hand isn't High 6-A, the Cluster being arbitrarily High 6-A is just unfounded and contradicts how scaling works.

second we have had a whole very long discussion on this and all agreed to drop it
Please, go ahead and find where I agreed, if you can't we can actually continue with the discussion.

second go look at the definition of a eon, the first result is an indefinite long amount of time, and 6000 years fits that bill
I already debunked this in my previous post.

The Diamonds themselves think 5000 years is nothing, why would an even less amount of time (Post Pink Diamond's "death") be considered an "Indefinite" period of time to them? Answer, it's obviously not, and you didn't read my comment at all.

basing a very large upgrade like that on not 100% confirm quotes isn't enough to justify it
Uhh, I just presented you a logical argument, you can't then just try and rebuttal with "Lul, no statements" when I gave you statements which lead to a logical conclusion, if you can't debate with logic, you're likely in the wrong place.

we have all reached that conclusion here.
Please, go ahead and find where I agreed, if you can't we can actually continue with the discussion.

 

[Nickobloke]

ok im sorry if I came across that way, but everything you are bringing up has already been brought up at some point, im sorry but the partially formed cluster is high 6-A, and ill say it again, having those two statements isn't enough to justify a upgrade like that, give me one piece of definitive evidence they where on homeoworld, and yeah actually I did read your comment as I responded to it, all your doing is putting together two quotes and attributing that to a period of time, using that as justification, the last time white left homeworld was for the diamond attack, which was 6000 years ago, which could be called eons, given one of the definitions, all you can put against that is two vague quotes that can be taken suggestively.

 

[Nickobloke]

like honestly blues quote was vague passing text, and yellows was for more a comedic effect.

 

[Soupywolf5]

I'm pretty sure at one point in future Pink Pearl refers to an even greater amount of time passing as if it were no big deal (8000 years iirc)

 

[Nickobloke]

Ok,....and? is this still enough to definitively justify it, come on are we really just going to scarp the bottom of the barrel looking for vague quotes, I would like just one piece of solid evidence that suggests they where on homeworld, not out of context time passage quotes that can be argued over to a stalemate.

 

[Udlmaster]

ok im sorry if I came across that way, but everything you are bringing up has already been brought up at some point, im sorry but the partially formed cluster is high 6-A, and ill say it agai

Scream it ad nauseum, it doesn't make it right, nor is this a rebuttle.

having those two statements isn't enough to justify a upgrade like that
The upgrade isn't coming from the two statements, you clearly don't understand my argument.

give me one piece of definitive evidence they where on homeoworld
I already gave you demonstrable proof they would have had to be on Homeworld through a logical argument, if you won't address my argument, then stop wasting my time going ad nauseum.

and yeah actually I did read your comment as I responded to it, all your doing is putting together two quotes and attributing that to a period of time
You obviously didn't read my comment then, because you'd understand what those two statements mean when put together, you know, Context. And I can respond to a comment without reading it.

using that as justification, the last time white left homeworld was for the diamond attack, which was 6000 years ago, which could be called eons, given one of the definitions, all you can put against that is two vague quotes that can be taken suggestively.
I already debunked this in my last comment and the one before that, if you're going to go on ad nauseum, don't bother responding.

The Diamonds do not see 5000 years as an Indefinite period of time, they see it as nothing. Meaning, the amount of time White Diamond has been on the Planet is far far greater than 5000 years, meaning White Diamond never left the Planet to attack the Earth and the attack was from Homeworld.

Meaning I have fulfilled what the calculator asked when saying he wants proof that it didn't take place on the moon, White Diamond could not be on the Moon because she would still be on Homeworld as per Blue Diamond's statement.

 

[Udlmaster]

I'm pretty sure at one point in future Pink Pearl refers to an even greater amount of time passing as if it were no big deal (8000 years iirc)

Exactly, so, there is no logical way that an even less amount of time would be indefinite to these beings.

 

[Nickobloke]

still love your wanked profiles though lol

 

[Udlmaster]

still love your wanked profiles though lol

Interesting rebuttal, would you like to try again or do you want to actually go on with this failed attempt at an ad hominum and give examples of "wank"?

 

[Nickobloke]

no that was something else, unrelated to this.

 

[Soupywolf5]

I think he's talking about these Also they are not wank, they are art thanks btw

 

[Nickobloke]

your welcome

 

[Udlmaster]

no that was something else, unrelated to this.

Then in an not so delicate way, shut up about non-relevant things and trying to score points using a failed Ad hominum, if you have a problem, go to my wall and we can hash it out there.

 

[Nickobloke]

now apart from vague time passage quotes that can be easily argued over, do you have any other piece of evidence definitive or suggestive that the attack was from homworld? I don't want to argue im quite tired of this point to be honest.


and no need to be soo hostile.

 

[Udlmaster]

now apart from vague time passage quote that can be easily argue over, do you have any other piece of evidence definitive or suggestive that the attack was from homworld? I don't want to argue im quite tired of this point to be honest.

You haven't even debunked my first argument. Why would I present a new argument, you have Burden of Rejoinder, not me.

 

[Nickobloke]

I cant debunk it because all this is is assumption, there is no way to find a definitive answer on either side, both cant be debunked, ive said this many times on here, if you read it you should have seen it. my point is we cant base this upgrade on assumptions, neither have 100% definitive proof, so all we can do is hurl arguments from vague quotes and suggestive evidence that isn't confirmed.


this really is just tedious now.

 

[Udlmaster]

I cant debunk it because all this is is assumptio

Omg, are you just going to go on ad nauseum? I've already told you it is a logical argument, things people do from the most basic deductions to the Highest Courts in the world.

there is no way to find a definitive answer on either side, both cant be debunked
Yes, it can, a logical argument can be debunked, do you even know what a logical argument is? Firstly, you can debunk a logical argument by providing evidence proving either the evidence used is wrong, or the logic used is wrong, but you can't seem to do that.

ive said this many times on here, if you read it you should have seen it.
What? That wasn't even a proper sentence.

my point is we cant base this upgrade on assumptions, neither have 100% definitive proof
I've already debunked you on why it's not an assumption, next argument or concede. Also, you don't need "100% definitive proof" it's called the Balance of Probability, and even places far above in importance such as Courts use the Balance of Probability to sentence people to death.

so all we can do is hurl arguments from vague quotes and suggestive evidence that isn't confirmed.
How are they vague? This is just an non-argument because vagueness means one can come to multiple conclusions given the evidence, which isn't true, I've given you the evidence and my logic and so far, there's only 1 conclusion, you seem to just ignore everything and choose intellectual Dishonesty to keep going ad nauseum and ignore my argument to go to the bottom of the barrel conclusion about Eons' definition, which cuts out all the context about the verse, which is even more dishonest.

this really is just tedious now.
Then present an argument or concede.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Getting into this because reason.

I, being among the ones who doubt that the attack came from that far, doubt that anyone believes that the attack came from the moon but in-between, as light projected from that far shouldn't look like that from behind the moon. After taking a moment to watch the scene, I still fail to see how the attacks comes from that far, as it not only doesn't shadows the moon, but lights up instead even after having already (supposedly) traveled through it, which only gives the impression that the light it's growing in an omnidirectional way instead of being a beam approaching to the world.

That being said, why it's assumed that, if fired from that far, we are talking about beam that would be literal hundreds of quadrillions miles long instead of a blast of light that went through the earth?