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Steel (CW) upgrade

It seems Atom's page doesn't have an AP explanation for 8-C, which would need to be fixed

Him taking steel's punches (as per durability justification) may not be the latter going all out, so I'm not sure how how reliable that is. Does he have any other feats against Steel?
 
I believe him being 8-C is scaling from Flash's lightning, but DontTalkDT has revised our lightning standards that being hit by lighting is no longer considered tanking 8-C energy.
 
Reposting what I said in the Flash discussion thread:

I think all around low 7-B for Atom is good (I was first gonna splice regular physicals and dwarf star powered ones).

He can briefly incapacitate Earth-X Reverse Flash with his lasers. Knocked out Chronos with a dwarf star powered punch while I think Chronos tanked an attack from Firestorm. And he took 1/3th of a lightning bolt from season 3 Flash but was only briefly knocked back and reacted about the same as Firestorm.

Steel scales to low 7-B as well since he traded blows with Atom.

This could and most likely will change if we give Firestorm 2 keys
 
Also Flash's lightning is low 7-B so him tanking said lightning shouldn't even have given him 8-C in the first place, the only reason he wasn't rated as higher is because he was deemed comparable to Oliver even tho the only fight they ever had, Oliver just shot an arrow at a weak spot of Ray's suit and depowered the suit that way + Ray's suit didn't even use dwarf star matter back then IIRC.

Here is the fight against Steel
 
Ray is able to make/power an entire suit for 3 seasons and counting with only a tiny bit of dwarf star matter. Yet normal humans can carry dwarf star bullets. Arrowverse doesn't care how much it's supposed to weigh unless it's to show how impressive lifting it is in a feat, the train feat fits in this scenario I think.
 
Yeah I'm with Asura here. It seems sorta dishonest to use actual dwarf star density for feat.
 
The dwarf star alloy is literally what makes the feat impressive though. The train being able to carry all that mass is likely just an example of writers don't know math.
 
That's a big thing though. If they don't know math then why should we treat the feat as if they did (as in using the correct material density)? It's contradictory in my view.

Is there a supporting feat for Steel that would support the High 7-C end I guess?
 
If someone lifted a mountain, would we discard it because "he should've sunk into the ground from the weight"? If someone swing an airplane like a bat, would we discard it because "the plane should have broken before he managed to swing"?

Imo if something blatantly happens in a fictional work, the setup making it possible not working irl should not disqualify it from a calc, and changing facts to rationalize it (such as using non dwarf star weight) just doesn't work
 
If the material doesn't show any of the signs of being like their real life counterpart and have contradicting elements about them, such as normal humans being able to lift multiple dwarf star bullets, I don't see a valid reason to scale it the way Spino is suggesting. If they're different they're just different.

As a similar example, not every thing called a black hole in fiction is treated as a black hole on site. Why? Because they don't act like their IRL counterpart, even with some artistic leeway. Why should this be any different?
 
The material was literally stated to be the densest material in the Arrowverse, so normal humans lifting them is obvious PIS.
 
Thing is dwarf star here is supposed to have those properties, as it's stated to be the densest material in the universe. Humans lifting them is PIS here

If they are naturally occuring black holes instead of artifically created ones, would we still scrutinize them to not have the normal properties of a black holes?
 
Yeah we do and we should. If the authors/writers show that they don't understand how the thing operates then we don't use it as its IRL equalivent. If it was just the statement I'd probably be fine with it, it's the inconsistent portrayal of the material that makes me worried.
 
Humans lifting it is just clear inconsistency and PIS. Even if you ignore the fact that it is dwarf star alloy, humans lifting "the densest material in the universe" is clearly nonsense.

And again, the material was said to be the densest material in the Arrowverse. So using the density of dwarf star is probably accurate even if you disregard the fact that it is literally called dwarf star alloy.
 
So using the density of dwarf star is probably accurate even if you disregard the fact that it is literally called dwarf star alloy

An alloy means it just uses multiple material in it. Steel is an alloy of carbon and iron. If it's dwarf star alloy then its likely not as dense as pure dwarf star matter since there's other stuff in it.

Also the bullets are treated as "superpowered" since they explode upon contact.

I don't see how that disproves the weight issues here.
 
It being an alloy can be accounted for in the calc, certain materials become brittle when the wt% of the other elements gets too high, so it would still be at least 50 wt% dwarf star material.

It means that in the same scene that the bullets are treated as regular bullets, they are also treated as special bullets.
 
Again, them being special doesn't disclude the weight issues. The bullets exploding are due to the dwarf star material present in them, which means they should still weigh a lot.
 
If accepted a AP and lifting strength upgrade for Steel. If dismissed as to dissimilar IRL dwarf star matter, then nothing I think.
 
Antvasima said:
What are the conclusions here?
Click to expand...
We are still discussing whether my calc can be used.

Basically the feat is about stopping a train full of "dwarf star alloy", the "densest material in the universe". I used the density of dwarf star, but some people think this is inaccurate since the train can't support that weight and normal humans can use guns filled with dwarf star bullets.

Andytrenom and I think that humans lifting "the densest material in the universe" is clear PIS, and it should be fine to use the dwarf star matter density, while some people like ByAsura and Quawsedf234 thinks it's different to dwarf star's real life counterpart due to how inconsistent it is.
 
Well, it is a hard issue to evaluate, as within DC and Marvel Comics proper, Prometheum and Adamantium are not treated as comparatively heavy despite being the densest/hardest metals in their respective universes, and there are likely plenty of other examples within fiction as well. Basically, without a given weight within the stories it is very hard to quantify.
 
The whole point of the feat was Steel stopping a train filled with dwarf star alloy though. That's what makes it impressive, stopping the densest material in the universe. It might be treated as impossibly light in other inconsistent scenes, but definitely not this. Simply ignoring the fact that it's filled with the densest material in the universe just doesn't seem right.
 
That is a good point. I suppose that seems to make sense then.
 
Reposting what I said in the Flash discussion thread:

I think all around low 7-B for Atom is good (I was first gonna splice regular physicals and dwarf star powered ones).

He can briefly incapacitate Earth-X Reverse Flash with his lasers. Knocked out Chronos with a dwarf star powered punch while I think Chronos tanked an attack from Firestorm. And he took 1/3th of a lightning bolt from season 3 Flash but was only briefly knocked back and reacted about the same as Firestorm.

Steel scales to low 7-B as well since he traded blows with Atom.

This could and most likely will change if we give Firestorm 2 keys

Yup for this

Also Flash's lightning is low 7-B so him tanking said lightning shouldn't even have given him 8-C in the first place, the only reason he wasn't rated as higher is because he was deemed comparable to Oliver even tho the only fight they ever had, Oliver just shot an arrow at a weak spot of Ray's suit and depowered the suit that way + Ray's suit didn't even use dwarf star matter back then IIRC.

Here is the fight against Steel

and this
 
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