Steampunk ~What a Beautiful Discussion Thread~ The New Era

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This seems more along the lines of subjective reality.

Kind of wondering how Cracking relates to M? Even Edison's NEP, he is another M, but he has other stuff going on with his existence, that kind of makes it questionable to scale M to him.

Ie I think Edison is NEP type 2 for being the void that defines what voids are, and is the void that's beyond the non-existence of the Underground.

Really need to see M and Edison interact now...

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

This seems more along the lines of subjective reality.

Kind of wondering how Cracking relates to M? Even Edison's NEP, he is another M, but he has other stuff going on with his existence, that kind of makes it questionable to scale M to him.

Ie I think Edison is NEP type 2 for being the void that defines what voids are, and is the void that's beyond the non-existence of the Underground.

Really need to see M and Edison interact now...

Works for me. It's telling that even back then, Cracking had such an ability to it.

Kinda spoilerly, but

Spoiler

there's a certain chapter in the Dream Wandering story that brings it up but it's also kinda vague.

That would certainly explain Edison being that much different from M despite being another Nyar/M from another universe.

This is also adding ontop of being AE Type 1 and such for being the space-time element of the universe after eating Yog-Sothoth.

Spoiler: Moon King Nyar

Will people remember the Moon King?
The Clockwork God.
Tick Tock Man.
The Crawling Chaos. The Time Man. The Dark Will. The Madness of Space-Time. The Moon King who came from a different Sky.
One of the Outer Gods who came from the World of History. A God of cruelty, gears, and chaos who chose to become all of Space-Time by devouring the Outer God Yog who controls it, becoming one of the traits of the universe.
He controls Kadath's Moon.
Thus, although they are the Black King from a concurrent parallel universe, they are completely different from the Black King here. They are something else, something completely different.
Do not forget, people. The Moon King has a cruel interest in all intelligent life forms. From spiritual animals to humans, especially those that have evolved from apes. When the gaze of the Moon King observes you, your heart will never be able to obtain happiness again.
No one can escape from the Moon King.
The universe that is recognized by the Moon King has already become useless.
Once the Moon King’s eyes gazed at anyone, they are nothing more than puppets that wander in the small garden (Sona Nyl) where dreams come to life. The planet in which the Mega Engine Clock protrudes on has already become useless. At least you people should die without knowing this. Once you know this, yes, there aren’t many options. That is the defeat of man, just like the Great Priest Clive who fell to madness. In that case, yes, I…
I...

--Engine Dictionary, Unknown Author Story

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Edison and M are just one of the traits of the universe, but apparently can devour infinite numbers of universes....

The statement about M from Sharnoth is also interesting, as it says he can rewrite all worlds, i think clearly it's suppose to be everything, but anyway, you got 2 Multiversal+ beings from different universes, who can destroy all universes.....

I guess the multiverse should be happy they don't just destroy it for fun, wait M already destroyed an infinite number, and Edison goes around torturing all life, like compared to what Edison will do to you being destroyed without even knowing what's going on like with M, would be mercy.

 

[Mycroft_er]

WAB's historical timeline was compiled by a certain Chinese person, it is almost similar to the official Liarsoft version.

I really want to see the battle between Paracelsus and Edison after hearing about this event (even though it might be a stomp lol).

Also hopefully the doujin that Qliphoth is about to receive includes a full illustration of this Edison.

Spoiler: The Madness of Space-Time.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Edison and M are just one of the traits of the universe, but apparently can devour infinite numbers of universes....

The statement about M from Sharnoth is also interesting, as it says he can rewrite all worlds, i think clearly it's suppose to be everything, but anyway, you got 2 Multiversal+ beings from different universes, who can destroy all universes.....

I guess the multiverse should be happy they don't just destroy it for fun, wait M already destroyed an infinite number, and Edison goes around torturing all life, like compared to what Edison will do to you being destroyed without even knowing what's going on like with M, would be mercy.

I read Sakurai's series of Tweets saying that M even did that just so he can some signs of golden eyes, which I guess is a thing of M needing to find pieces of his "Queen", Azathoth.

And yeah, they're traits of the universe...or multiverse even?

One of those doujins for Sharnoth states that space, time, and jet black are the three elements that make up the universe. M's got jet black and even though Edison should also have that cuz he's also Nyar too, he's got the priority on space-time so dude's like 2/3 of existence right there xD

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

WAB's historical timeline was compiled by a certain Chinese person, it is almost similar to the official Liarsoft version.

I really want to see the battle between Paracelsus and Edison after hearing about this event (even though it might be a stomp lol).

Also hopefully the doujin that Qliphoth is about to receive includes a full illustration of this Edison.

Spoiler: The Madness of Space-Time.

That long haired Edison though~

Dude, same. It's probably not part of the official Liarsoft WAB timeline is cuz it took place years before the "first Steam Engine" came into the picture. Doujin content aside, ofc...

And hopefully. Von Hohenheim's page is interesting since it said he did something that would later be called the Cracking Effect, but it seemed like he couldn't handle the strain of it. That and it also brings up the things about what Cracking would do anyway, like substitution of matter to things like "remaking the world", "world conversion" and "tampering of time".

Maybe it's like some sort of prototype to Cracking, and what Edison made is just a refurbished version made off of his own power?

Man, I wish I bought the doujins sooner lol

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Still at chapter 7, found this interesting

That being the ultimate void of chaos, similar stuff was said about M, but anyway, if he is at the center of the ultimate void, just more evidence for NEP type 2, cause he is the void beyond voids ie the Underground.

The talk about everything being a game for him is also interesting, can either take it as him being higher dimensional/4-D, or stretch it even further, to Low 1-C, idk, it's possible.

Sadly have to stop in the middle of things, it's bed time.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Still at chapter 7, found this interesting

That being the ultimate void of chaos, similar stuff was said about M, but anyway, if he is at the center of the ultimate void, just more evidence for NEP type 2, cause he is the void beyond voids ie the Underground.

The talk about everything being a game for him is also interesting, can either take it as him being higher dimensional/4-D, or stretch it even further, to Low 1-C, idk, it's possible.

Sadly have to stop in the middle of things, it's bed time.

Ngl I debated using that but yeah it does kinda show what he is in reality lolz

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Tick Tock Man (Edison) has a similar comment like that in Kaijin no Karashrer.

Spoiler: Cyber Supremacy Protection

They were the words spoken by Something that all Cyber Zombies revered.

They were the proposition common to all Cyber Zombies.

That was why they, the Cyber Zombies, were granted a great blessing.

The Zombie engraved with the name of Ares also recognized this. Despite having died once, their life as a human was now gone. They had no thoughts that could resemble any of it. Instead, the thought process that had arisen with their mutation vaguely forced Ares to recall them as such.

We are invincible.

We are the vanguard.

We are the devourers of life.

The Cyber Zombie's armor made them impervious to all attacks. The only thing that could pierce through a Cyber Zombie was a non-physical action. That is to say, a power that could distort all matter and phenomenon, and yet there was none who could do it. If there was someone who could, it would perhaps have to be God, for example.

But there was no God in this world.

At least, there was no God on the planet who answered prayers of salvation.

That was why the Cyber Zombies attacked the survivors for a short while.

That same was said for the Cyber Zombie Ares.

Mass equals velocity squared. Even with the huge ruinous mass, the top half of the high-rise building that was cut diagonally by the Shaikorth's beaming that came with the kinetic energy with its fall, it was impossible for its machine body to be shattered. Other than the scaffolding being shakened and staggered, there was no concrete damage.

That was the blessing.

Far away at the reaches of darkness, they were protected by Something that was smiling by the Throne in the center of the ultimate abyss.

Keep in mind again, Edison isn't even named directly. But the chronology for Karashrer's worldline states that he DID exist here and his moniker name, Tick Tock Man, was name dropped in Chp 3 (which I've yet to translate again + 4 and other stuff from the novel).

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

M was stated to be at the peak of repulsive chaos, didn't have any idea what that meant originally, but now I think we probably can scale M to Edison's NEP, though idk about scaling the aspects.

Edison might be NEP type 2 with aspect 1, and 5, and possibly 2, 3, and 4.

Those might be more iffy, not too sure.

But anyway we can probably take Edison and M, as being the voids beyond voids, but in terms of what aspects they lack, idk about scaling it to each other.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

There will surely be some differences here and there between the two Nyars though, yeah.

IDK on what degree of the void aspect bit, but definitely when it comes to traits of the universe, that will be different too.

M being all of jet black, while Edison is all of space time.

Still weird though since one of the Sharnoth Fandics's had M outright stating Edison/Tick Tock has the same everything (Name, Function, Ability, etc.) but that's just to be expected since Edison is just M but from another world (Historical Facts).

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

List of Abstract Entities in Steampunk. Just the notable ones we know:

Spoiler: Illusions go BRRR

Old Ones: Manifestations of nature that once permeated the world, beings who were once said to "not exist in reality, only things that humanity dreamed up". Illusions that were said to have once been living entities or were higher-order beings according to Sakurai, said to have lived amongst Humans in a time before they discovered a "new light", which is the age of science which caused them to disappear/lose their physical bodies overtime. Old Ones/Illusions also went by many names: Elementals (Spirits of nature), Dead Spirits or Ghosts, Divine Spirits, Old Gods, Faeries, etc.

Meta=Critters (Sharnoth Version): Like Old Ones, they're also illusions themselves who should not exist at all outside of fairy tales or even at all but yet they do. Made manifest by a host's feelings and thoughts as well as an equation that likely is but not outright confirmed to be the Cracking Effect (Could actually be given Moran and M, members of Society until their defection, should know what they are made up of there).

Critters (Inganock, Sona Nyl, Gahkthun) and Kikai: Cracking Beings, entities that shouldn't exist but yet they do due to Cracking. Their very presence even upsets physics, and they're ones who are made up/are possibilities of "lives that never came be, lives that were never born", thus they technically have no physical/material form to the point they can even exist as information itself. On top of that, Critters are also manifestations of death and terror given form. Kikai, albeit limited, are like Grimm=Grimm who can basically exist as nothingness in the event their body is destroyed.

Messengers/Angels of Sona Nyl (Underground New York): Cracking Beings that are the forms of death in Sona Nyl, existing as the "greatest memory that all of New York had" which was them that Edison gave birth to them through the Cracking Effect. They even exist as embodiment of the law of Sona Nyl, such as the phenomena of Refrain that causes the people there to die and resurrect over and over until they lose all of their memories and turn into Mole people (fully metal beings)

Outer Gods: What little is said of them, of which there isn't a whole lot to go by since it's just three we know (Nyar, Yog, Azathoth), they're also pretty abstract themselves. They're highly conceptual, as M for example is the concept of Jet Black, one of the universe's elements that exist pretty much all of space as dark matter. Yog-Sothoth, as brief as they are, should be similar as they were the being that embodied the universe's element of space-time. Azathoth, at least when they were whole, should be above that as their Queen who was the center of the universe + dreamt all of it. They're also seemingly higher up in the totem pole of metaphysical entities as the Old Ones couldn't really make contact with M, not even through an avatar of his that served them in the past.

Just something in mind that could help with whose able to interact at with who.

Edit: Going off of this, it seems like a lot of these are varying degrees of incorporeality to abstract existence.

As for those who can affect what, we got clear examples in each:

Spoiler: The Power Breaker list

Kikai in Inganock are shown to be able to screw over even Critters, something that's acknowledged as what's needed as even the weakest of Critters or least combat abled ones, like Wendigo and Marionette, need something like a Kikai as Cracking itself can't do jack.

Critters, so far at least A's, can affect Cracking Beings like the Messengers who are embodiments of death + the law of Sona Nyl as well as being "without substance".

Messengers can destroy Critters too, given the Sona Nyl Messengers also can destroy A's Critters or at worst wear them down and stuff.

M can casually chow down on Meta=Critters, and in the WN, Dagon was s****ing itself at the thought of M eating it. For reminder's sake, Dagon's an Old One or heavily implied so due to being the one who was in the process of contaminating the waters in that one city in the WN and Leonardo, a Erudite Scholar and the guy who made Sebas M. to give to M as some favor, confirmed it so.

Tesla admittedly doesn't have a lot necessarily, but he's shown to still affect immaterial entities or even things not material like sound, light, colors, even information. He can also affecting beings made out of an equation, as he did with GK's Bell of Gahkthun form (which is said to be a "Bell-type Equation body" or something), the Killer Clown that was made out of light, and Meta-Critter Jabberwocky being made out of information. He likely can also affect Critters, as it was brought up more than once that he and others, Neon even, went to confront the Critter Douglas encounter at the end of WASL.

Golden King can destroy Critters as he did with Nigthtengale's Critter formation out of light and shadow illusions. In Ultrathotep, his hands can destroy the "physical and metaphysical, real and illusory". Given the things we've learned to this point on what is what, he should at least be able to destroy Old Ones as that's what Tesla essentially is.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The bonus content is long...

So much info to take in.

Hopefully I can get to working on some profiles by the weekend.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

It's a lot, IK xD

You should also try and read up Dream Wandering too while at it.

Trust, it really would explain a lot of things and it's also where the thing about Old Ones, Sharnoth, M (Black King), and Tick Tock Man (Moon King) came from too.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I am done.

The mentions of Gods are too much of a tease, I want more, all this interesting lore that's out there.

Will go through all the side story stuff now i guess.

Oh here is my sandbox for the Cracking page btw, it's a WIP.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

You'll get quite a bit of them on the side stories like the Refrain EX Scenario (Eye of Hypnos, a little of the WN) as well as Dream Wandering. I will spoil a bit that it's not a lot lot, but we get enough to know that even other kinds of "Gods" like the Gods of Elysia are a thing.

Ah, nice. How would you rate the VN compared to the others?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Read Unknown Author Description, might be an argument anyone who can get to the bar has near infinite knowledge? The Collective Unconscious was said to have like near infinite knowledge, and getting to the bar requires knowing the secrets of it.

The Gods of Elysia came out of left field in the VN, but yea they are Elder Gods.

As for my rating of the VN, as i basically already hinted at, it's Inganock but better imo, so yea my new favorite.

Btw, seeing Lily meeting Tesla, pretty clear he was suicidal, it's really not that clear until later in Gahkthun, Tesla just seems like this emotionless guy, but the whole time, he was basically unhinged, planned to save as much people as possible and then die to repent for not being able to save New York and Inganock.

Speaking of that, how did he know what was going on there while sealed off, does he have some sort of cosmic awareness? Also how the heck did he know that Lily was related to Elysia, despite never meeting Elysia nor Lily before, even asking who Lily was at first? Does he have super broken info analysis too, in addition to cosmic awareness.....

Oh I was also wondering how Lily would beat Edison seeing his whole God status, Kadath's Moon/AZZT betraying him was a good twist.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Read Unknown Author Description, might be an argument anyone who can get to the bar has near infinite knowledge? The Collective Unconscious was said to have like near infinite knowledge, and getting to the bar requires knowing the secrets of it.

The Gods of Elysia came out of left field in the VN, but yea they are Elder Gods.

As for my rating of the VN, as i basically already hinted at, it's Inganock but better imo, so yea my new favorite.

Btw, seeing Lily meeting Tesla, pretty clear he was suicidal, it's really not that clear until later in Gahkthun, Tesla just seems like this emotionless guy, but the whole time, he was basically unhinged, planned to save as much people as possible and then die to repent for not being able to save New York and Inganock.

Speaking of that, how did he know what was going on there while sealed off, does he have some sort of cosmic awareness? Also how the heck did he know that Lily was related to Elysia, despite never meeting Elysia nor Lily before, even asking who Lily was at first? Does he have super broken info analysis too, in addition to cosmic awareness.....

Oh I was also wondering how Lily would beat Edison seeing his whole God status, Kadath's Moon/AZZT betraying him was a good twist.

Aye. Well it's also something that anyone who reads has to take it like a "grain of salt" given what the ending said, but then again, what we learned so far from all of the parts points to it being real. ESPECIALLY if you read Dream Wandering before that.

Also, if you ask by any chance, yeah it's pretty long. I tried to think if I should have like split it or keep it in one setting for a while and just went with the latter only because I couldn't think of any particular points to split them.

Yeah, Elder Gods you won't ever hear anywhere about them except Sona Nyl and any mats related to them.

NOICE. Same. I can see why it's one of Sakurai's most notable works and why there's plenty other side mats related to it too.

Aye. TBH, when I first checked out the WN, I was surprised he mentioned Inganock but adding that to NY and it's clear he holds up a lot of baggage for someone who went up against what I can think is him fighting a legit God. The guy may be the Avatar of Lightning, but he was facing off against an embodiment of chaos (+ space-time) itself.

Eh, that? IDK. Could be that Edison just told him? The Time Prison Edison dumped Tesla at was at Alcatraz, and I also imagine Edison, being the embodiment of space-time, could just pop in there and go to Tesla just to taunt him about what he did and all that. That's my guess.

Mmhm. Even while in "pieces", AZTT/Azathoth is alive enough to screw Edison over and empower Lily on her "golden gun" of A's to shoot him. This one actually gets relevant in some of the Liarsoft mags for Sona Nyl but I haven't start those yet.

 

[Mycroft_er]

Lily can only deal damage to Tick Tock Man's incarnation, not even killing him .

The first time Lily shot Edison, he simply disappeared, unaffected by the shot. At an unknown time (Refrain version), when combined with A, Lily was able to create a wound on Edison's face.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Mycroft_er

That definitely explains the difference in the ending and extra content, yeah.

In the original VN, he simply vanished. Not even told if the shot even at least made contact with him.

But in Refrain, including the Engine Dictionary, we have some implication that Lily DID managed to shoot and harm Edison thanks to A AND AZZT's help.

Not exactly sure where we'll have Lily with that based on where Edison will be at. Maybe like at least 2-A or something? or whatever the info I presented with the Engine Dictionary and other mats will somewhat shake things up more for these guys like tier 1.

I'm more interested in seeing the cooked up profiles for the Messengers. Especially the final one, the Distortion Messenger.

Imagine fighting a literal composite of that who can use metaphysical crushing spatial warp, conceptual cutting blades, flames and wind that can outright destroy you, and water to turn you to stone or shadows to slowly overtake your life all in one.

 

[Mycroft_er]

Can Crimson Eyes be considered Cracking Effect?

I mean, it's an Art but Golden King is extremely skilled in using Cracking, could this make Crimson Eyes gain Cracking abilities?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Can Crimson Eyes be considered Cracking Effect?

I mean, it's an Art but Golden King is extremely skilled in using Cracking, could this make Crimson Eyes gain Cracking abilities?

Don't see why not.

The Crimson Eyes/Sekime (Sekigan)/Bright Eyes are a special thing that all members of the Society's Upper Echelon have. Rosenkreuz clearly has it. Hilde Rome d'Arc has it, and a few others here and there have it too.

The Eyes are basically what happens if you implant a "certain Mathematical Equation" to grant "permanent activity".

Valusia states this in both the glossary and WN has Hilde state what their power is drawn from, which is Tick Tock Man's Cracking.

As for if it grants one Cracking, probably? Though I kinda suspect the Society had other means of obtaining Cracking abilities besides that or that their Sekime is a side effect of them obtaining and experimenting with Cracking's capabilities.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Finished Dream Wondering.

The Lily portions reflect Lily's ignorance, she has no idea what's going on, ignorant of her own power, and seemingly even contradictory (which the story itself acknowledges), Lily should still be non-existence, and it's heavily implied she is, but yet somehow can catch diseases? And A who is not able to dream, dreams..

Anyway, the other perspectives were more interesting, but still leave me wanting answers.

I found this interesting:

"It's a little early to be here. This story isn't ready to be told to you."
"Everything has an order to it."
"Lily the Stranger."

Someone said something like that to me.
Perhaps it was a boy. Smaller than me, I think.

"This was from a time before I made an Oath."

Just as I recall, yes. Maybe they said it like that.

There was no sign of the boy. There was maybe a rainbow-colored feather. Yes. All I could make out was that he was standing in the dark, holding a piece of something like that.

Rainbow bird feathers...?

Mm. That's...peculiar. A rainbow bird?
But those are probably the feathers of a rainbow bird. Somehow, I thought of that... but there were no birds anywhere in the darkened city, though.

"I'm still amazed, though. You do transcend time, don't you? Maybe you're nonexistent? Or is it because, like me, you see the memory of the time beyond Yog-Sothoth?"

Is this a younger Tesla? And if so, apparently has some sort of precognition? Again questions...

 

[Mycroft_er]

Maybe that boy is Thunderbird.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Man, it's like we gotta connect everything to Tesla somehow lol.

@Celestial_Pegasus

Noice. Now you should be able to resume the "EX Scenario" which is the WN and Eye of Hypnos.

One of the chapters I liked with Dream Wandering is the thing with the Black King (Nyarlathotep).

Dude had no one to "reach" and "touch" his Jet Black, yet some "airhead" who was made in the world of his alt self (Moon King) interested him enough to grant him one of his tentacles.

Speaking of, A would definitely need two keys for that. One for during the Sona Nyl VN and another for after because he doesn't have his initial three Critters anymore from the Underground World. Although he does have a pretty good tradeoff with his "new Critter", Howler in Darkness.

Getting a tentacle from the Black King himself ain't no joke,

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

What's also interesting with A is this bit right here:

An examination of the performance of code "A" in the Underworld.

Properties: The nature of the "wounds" in the underworld were formed by the Cracking Effect, or a special Formula created by researcher Alan Akeley.

Limitations: There are several general rules of conduct, depending on the design of the formulator.

Ability: Shadow Forming ...Speed A, Accuracy A, Defense A.

Ability: Critter Summoning ...Speed A-S, Accuracy A, Defense S.

Based on the characteristics of the shadow forming ability, the Equation used by the Formula's creator is close to that of the Kruschtya equation, which is probably a coincidence.

That's all we know about Code "A". There have been reports that the Golden Power was obtained just prior to the disappearance of the code following contact with the composite, but this is impossible to verify now that traces of the Cracking Effect have disappeared in New York.

The Golden Gun.

The search for the Golden Power in Europe, the Americas, the Orient, Africa, and Kadath continues.

Missed on a certain line of text's translation, but this is an interesting note made by Adam Weisphat.

Maybe there is more to the Equation M uses than we thought~?

 

[Mycroft_er]

M and Edison have the same existence and power, so Kruschtya Equation maybe similar to Cracking Equation.

In Shikkoku no Sharnoth, M was so OP that we didn't see much of Kruschtya Equation's power because all the battles were stomped by him. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Qliphoth_Bacikal Pretty clear M can do Cracking too, makes sense as M and Edison are the same existence.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The Cracking Being Physiology page is going to be massive, since Underground Residents also have to part of it.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

A translation that I've held up for 2 year. Was so worth the wait lol.

And I'm not surprised the more we learn about stuff from either of the Nyars. Also makes sense too that they'd be that similar. If M's Jet Black is beyond space, time, and causality + can eat several infinitely stacked layered universes, Edison should do the same. Likewise, if Edison can create the idea of making an "Equation" that warps reality and stuff, M should be able to do the same if he truly wanted.

For Cracking Beings, this is all that even the Atwiki for WAB Series have gotten:

現象数式体 - 桜井光作品 @ ウィキ

概要 現象数式により形作られたもの。 故に認識によって存在し、認識によっては姿を変えもする。 クラッキングビーイングとルビが振られることもある。 作中に登場した現象数式体 種別 生み出したもの 元にな...

w.atwiki.jp

Basically as its said at the start, the page is a list for those who were created through Cracking, meaning they're beings who were given form through cognition and understanding via an equation that warps reality and physics.

Surprisingly enough, we have all of the series that's translated that have them:

Inganock: Critter and Kikai

Sharnoth: Meta=Critters (Usually written in text as 怪異 or Monsters/Illusions/Phantoms)

Sona Nyl: The Underground World, its Inhabitants, the Messengers, and Lily

Gahkthun: The Killer Clown and Meta=Critter Jabberwocky

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Read a bunch of the side material.

Robocop apparently exists in this world... The Lily content is honestly so random.

The Sharnoth stuff was the most intriguing for me, but probably cause it actually gives details on lore related stuff ie M.

So much stuff to put and piece together, will have to work on a side material CRT, to put all the pieces together.

But first will focus on Sona Nyl, Cracking, and Cracking Beings.

Speaking of Cracking, I don't really think there is much else to add to the page I am making. There is kind of a long shot argument for concept manipulation, but I think we should differentiate between what a normal Cracking User is generally capable of, and the others. Ie Critter's manipulate minds via Cracking, but doesn't mean everyone who has Cracking can manipulate minds.

Messengers have a good argument to be type 2 concepts, and thus their "metaphysical destruction" is probably type 2 as well, scaling that to all Cracking Users is iffy imo.

Long story short, I think I can probably post it in a CRT now. Anything else that wants to be added, can be done so by anyone here once it becomes a wiki page, like idk more info about the history of Cracking or whatever.

If I remember or see anything new, can be added to the page later as well too, this should be good for now.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Always amazes me that side materials are so long to add stuff we don't know of from the Visual novels themselves or even in the WN's.

I still have plenty more materials to go through at some point though, especially those pertaining to Sona Nyl plus I got another Sharnoth story I wanna do at some point that's from that magazine where Sakurai and Haganeya (DMB's creator) did their interview.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Cracking CRT.

Going to eat, when I come back maybe work on Sona Nyl Profiles.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Celestial_Pegasus

On the scaling of Cracking, I was thinking the same but also that what a user of Cracking has shouldn't necessarily be something they're also capable of unless they're actually stated to be able to do them or have done so themselves such as the mind manip example you spoke of. That and also the degree of what normal Cracking can do and vice versa.

Messenger things, the only ones I'd scale that off to is A and his Critters. Can't remember or name anyone that can do anything close to that. MAYBE Rosenkreuz too via Ultrathotep but idk if that's stretching it even though he has that "destroy illusory and metaphysical" thing he got also.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

There is also scale, while Cracking did create the Underground as a side effect, i don't think Cracking from like Gii works on that scale, but it should function the same.

Underground is arguable universal size, or infinite, which is what leads into Low 1-C Edison arguments...

Speaking of that, might be arguments for M too, but find it more iffy . M is beyond infinity (which you could probably say is just Low 2-C), beyond time and space (again Low 2-C, though there the beyond time and space is said in relation to him munching on infinite universes), the other part is more interesting, the implication he is beyond human understanding, and meaning/description.

Oh also, I think M is definitely non-existent on an information level too.

Forget what I said about working on profiles though, we have daylight savings time here, and I haven't watched any anime all week, need to catch up.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

There is also scale, while Cracking did create the Underground as a side effect, i don't think Cracking from like Gii works on that scale, but it should function the same.

Underground is arguable universal size, or infinite, which is what leads into Low 1-C Edison arguments...

Speaking of that, might be arguments for M too, but find it more iffy . M is beyond infinity (which you could probably say is just Low 2-C), beyond time and space (again Low 2-C, though there the beyond time and space is said in relation to him munching on infinite universes), the other part is more interesting, the implication he is beyond human understanding, and meaning/description.

Oh also, I think M is definitely non-existent on an information level too.

Forget what I said about working on profiles though, we have daylight savings time here, and I haven't watched any anime all week, need to catch up.

Yeah, that's a no to that too. I'm pretty sure I said something similar to this a while back, but it should be more that Cracking is the source that they all run on but what they did depends on what it was used for. Like Gii is more localized and that's also specifically towards healing purposes. Same for Kerkan and Crack Chrome's Cracking that's destructive but still localized all the same.

Was it infinite? Shoot, I still be missing details even now lol. If it is, that could be an argument for Low 1-C Edison...which also means other background lore chars like Azathoth and Sanido (Kthanid) would possibly be Low 1-C though it's still little off what I've found for them.

M, probably? Maybe iffy also? IDK. I haven't found anything else for him that may downscale him from his parallel self Edison.

I'd do the same and just wait on it. Just only have the CRT to go through rn for the moment.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Infinite is probably a stretch. Basically Trevor Tower is visible anywhere in the Underground, but you can't reach it via walking or with a train, it's literally impossible, it doesn't get any closer even after traveling for days at 100mph, there is only one way to reach it, via the railway Lily and A took.

The statements for Edison though are pretty clear cut, only Gods can play chess, it's impossible for a non-god, he sees everything as being trivial etc.

M is more iffy, would have to put everything together to see what I think. Not doing that till the Edison profile is ready to go.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oh.

I kinda consider the Underground World as like a copy of the actual New York with Edison's Trevor Tower being the center of it that no one can get near to. IDK about it being infinite like that.

Yeah Edison's pretty clear. It's just M having anything of the sort to scale from him that's odd.

I wouldn't be surprised if he also did because he's also a God too but IDK...

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Oh yeah, just remembered something.

Steampunk Series having its own Robocop is so dope. I'd say the Steampunk ver could be powerful ish cuz the fact it can tank bullets just like Robocop from the movies but it has a literal gun or even just from its hands that shoots laser beams made out of Cracking. IDK if it's anything scalable like Kyrie's but then again, I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

And yeah, Lily being sick despite being a Cracking Being that came back from nothing yet can get sick is humorous. IDK if that'd get flag as an anti-feat thing, but it's just funny that after everything she went through in the Underground New York, she still can catch a cold lol.

Also, A being able to dream is interesting even though he shouldn't be able to. Him even entering Hypnos abyssal bar is even more intriguing. Perhaps that might be related to being the "shadow of Alan's experience" or something?

That and Howler in Darkness able to destroy an equation/formula pattern that was stated to deal spatial destruction on a continental scale is pretty dope for a Critter made out of M's "Jet Black". Them Elder Gods really tried to do something to a guy that's very clueless about the whole experience xD

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Alright.

Looks like I got more stories and mats to uncover.

I just got my doujins and some other mats of WAB finally packed up and shipped to go. Gonna expect like a week or so around to get it here.

Can't wait to explore owo