Steampunk ~What a Beautiful Discussion Thread~ The New Era

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Even at the mid way point of Sona Nyl (7 chapters and interludes, so 4 is the mid), yeah it's just really depressing.

The fact that you get much much closer to the end of Elysia and Lily's journey and see how much Edison really hurt millions of people over and over for 5 yrs after the fact just shows you how much Edison is a true bonafide Nyar.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So, Walter's feat when re-looking at it, was massively lowballed, the floor of the Cracking Field is metal, so that would put his feat at Town level.

Given the uncertain nature of the other feats, ie no visuals, don't see anything wrong with that, especially when you consider Emilie's skyscrapper piercing feats.

So have to update that calc and get it reevaluated. Will do it later.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Town Level Walther

TF xD

Dude's got a Town level rating to make him even higher than Berta's Typhon mech lol.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well Berta's mech is gonna scale above that, and be like city level with lasers, but yea looks massive in comparison to the current ratings.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Guess we can go over a bit again on the Messengers power and abilities set:

Mind and Fear hax: This is a thing they share that's, surprisingly or unsurprisingly, shared by all other Fantasy ish beings. Critters, Kikai's apparently, even Meta=Critters too.

Law Manip/??? something else: Like the Critters of Inganock, the Messengers of Sona Nyl (The Underground World) are the embodiment of the fundamental law of said world. They're the ones who pass around judgement and all that to kill the millions of people lost in the original NY on the surface there on that world.

Physics, Reality Warp, Math, etc.: Messengers are, in truth, also beings formed out of the Cracking Effect. Basically, their powers described below and above here are all of the Cracking Effect. Basically just like Critters and Kikai.

Inorganic Physiology/Non-Corporeal: They're beings said to have no substance or physical body ish trait of anything, formed out of the Cracking Effect.

Varied abilities: Each Messenger has their own unique ability exactly like how Critters, Kikai, and Meta=Critters (the Familiar-type ones, or whichever is the one that use elementals).
*The first has power over pressure or spatial manip stuff, allowing them to crush pretty much anything with spatial distortions including the Veranzanno Bridge.
*The second uses flames, very hot enough to turn people and even buildings to ashes though they're also said to be able to smash things down so its supernatural flames that smashes and burns things down to ashes?
*The third uses wind and can control its very movements, using it to pretty much break down everything in Long Island City.
*The fourth uses shadows, and it seems to be able to just break stuff down with. Humans, buildings, anything. Supposedly it's also said to wither things down so I guess its some form of its own "death manip"? Maybe corrosion type? IDK.

We still have three more to go through, but the things said about them on display and through the minigames show that the Messengers have some REALLY nasty abilities.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Well Berta's mech is gonna scale above that, and be like city level with lasers, but yea looks massive in comparison to the current ratings.

When the City Annihilator nickname of them mechs now becomes truer.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

CRT is drafted and ready to go, just need it re-evaluated again, but the person who did it hasn't been on since Thursday, so just a waiting game now.

For now, will turn my focus back on that Mary Intelligence thread.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I forgot, but what sort of power/ability falls under being formed by Cracking? Inorganic Phys, non-corporeal?

Just something that all Cracking Beings at least universally share because of manifesting due to SCIENCE.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Intangibility, or should i say being stupidly hard to affect? I mean you would need like 8 different abilities to do that...

I was thinking about a general "Cracking Being" page, seeing as Critters, Messengers, GK, are all that, but would be a super long page, albeit it makes he most sense.

So would be a general Cracking Being physiology description to begin with so Intangibility, and then get into specifics.

The odd one out is Meta=Critter since there is no confirmation (that i know of) they were made from Cracking, they would have to have their own page to themselves.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Intangibility, or should i say being stupidly hard to affect? I mean you would need like 8 different abilities to do that...

I was thinking about a general "Cracking Being" page, seeing as Critters, Messengers, GK, are all that, but would be a super long page, albeit it makes he most sense.

So would be a general Cracking Being physiology description to begin with so Intangibility, and then get into specifics.

The odd one out is Meta=Critter since there is no confirmation (that i know of) they were made from Cracking, they would have to have their own page to themselves.

Ah, that's not bad. Especially when you go through Sona Nyl materials completely, you'll see how broke they are based on the statements we get from it.

I was actually hesitant on it before when I brought it up, but yeah, Cracking Being/Cracking Physiology(?) might have to be a thing or something. Maybe, could be hard to say if we don't get enough on what a Cracking Being is and what defines them besides being made from Edison's (Tick Tock Man's) "Science".

I'll be done for it if we also get a Cracking Effect page with it too.

Meta=Critters, yeah... I'm just drawing at a blank on if they're even made out of Cracking. Maybe they actually are and we're just not being convinced because they being made by "Equation" can just be another way of saying Phenomena Equation (Cracking Effect). Would have been really helpful if Sakurai had just said "Cracking" and we'd have it fully in our eyes they are also equation beings like Critters, Kikai, Messengers, etc. Hell, the Fantasy Monsters in Inganock, and the Killer Clown + Jabberwocky Meta=Critter are outright formed out of the Cracking Effect.

Meta=Critters in Sharnoth are just that short-ended lol

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Mmm, on the Meta=Critters issue, I'll probably have to look into it when I have the chance to see if we can get some implied connection to Cracking and the like.

There's probably gonna be some mental gymnastics here to get a better clue on how and what manifests the Meta=Critters in Sharnoth.

Also that of "scaling", not in the conventional manner but in similarities of other supernatural beings.

Most notable I can make are these:

• Meta=Critters are said to be paranormal phenomena, illusions that shouldn't even exist outside of fairy tales or too warped to be in the world yet they do anyway and are manifested from both their hosts feelings and an "equation" that is involved in their manifestation. Critters, Kikai, Monsters, etc. are beings that shouldn't exist but were given form by the Cracking Efffect (phenomena equation) due to being manifested as a result of the Crack Experiment in Inganock through Grimm=Grimm and are even said to defy the laws of physics.
• Meta=Critters have a passive mind and fear hax to anyone they encounter. This is a trait that Critters, Kikai, Messengers, even the Horrors from Valusia have some sort of mental hax stuff (per Valusia Blog, so what little amount I can get out of them since I don't have the game to fully check).
  • Note: Not exactly a point for comparison I assume, but it is something that most supernatural creatures just happen to share.
• Meta=Critters have the ability to change and shift up into something more if left alone. Meta=Critter Jabberwocky (Novel Anthology), an "independent Cracking Being" made out of information, was said to have endless possibilities to transform into something if Tesla and Neon hadn't stopped it in time. Something about being described as becoming "more than that of the Killer Clown", whatever it means.
• Meta=Critters are intangible/abstract existences whose entire makeup shouldn't be organic in anyway and instead are made of something like the elements the Luminary/Familiar-type M=C's are covered/embodied in. Critters, Kikai, and Messengers are all varying levels or more less got most of these, whether its Kikai's having steel bodies and possibilities, or Messengers just outright being stated to have "bodies w/o substance".

For what it's worth, the JP wiki on Sharnoth's Meta=Critters seem to point to them as cracking beings that manifested through Sharnoth with Charlie and "Mariabell's" Golden Eyes. There's also a page they have that lists Cracking Beings too (not posting it cuz it got a little spoiler from Sona Nyl's end owo) and it has pretty much most of who and what we know on there that's a Cracking Being (Critters, Kikai, Grimm=Grimm, Messengers, Killer Clown, Jabberwocky) and among them also is Sharnoth's Meta=Critters of which what birthed them is their hosts feelings and whatnot.

In fairness, this could just be all comparison's sakes of what I just listed but if you take it for what it is from the VN and other works of WAB and compare, you might get the implications that Meta=Critters ARE in fact also Cracking Beings or can apply as them as well.

Take it as you will.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Meta=critters are not outright confirmed but...it does point they are similar to the actual critters.

Other than what QB said there was something I remembered about them. For one they are mentions of a green stone in sharnoth iirc (Especially with Moran's guns) and well...we know the stones and tablet were used to make cracking beings as Astrea used it for Grimm=Grimm. Not to mention all the circuits like GK's were cuz of these stones

And I just realized and while I'm likely spitballing but the Meta=Critters could be what the original inhabitants of sharnoth were like before civilization advanced the way it did. Considering their fantastical nature.

拡大変容する前の妖精型《怪異》はどれも機械の体を有しているが、それは古代カダスに於いて神々が機械の体に降りたことと関係しているのだと言う

Before the expansion transformation of the fairy type <<Meta=Critter>> all had mechanical bodies, it was said to be related to when the gods descended into machine bodies in ancient Kadath.

Or smth like that. I do have to add Jabberwocky while it does use Katakana in regards to being called a Meta=Critter (in comparison to Sharnoth which uses Kanji), the at wiki lists them under the same category in a sense.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@TISSG7Redgrave I should also mention that the Green Stones were also seemingly a thing of importance in Inganock too, because M was reportedly sent to Inganock to go find some "Green stones that were scattered". There's also a major Inganock side story from the monthly mags that I haven't TL'd yet that also bring up the mention of Green Stones (only reason I haven't done is cuz I think I might not have all the mags to do the TL owo).

I actually can't remember if Inganock VN itself mentions anything about the tablet, but IK the WN + monthly magazine DOES mention the stones so there is a mention of them that has their relation to Inganock if M (at the time still a member of Society) was sent over to retrieve them.

But yeah, Charlie was also given one by the Professor (James Moriarty's title in the Society/WIC) and since she's a Meta=Critter host herself, that probably also might have come of relevance since there wouldn't be any other reason to be given one. Plus, Moran shooting her gun loaded with green stone bullets at the Meta=Critters at first harmed them but then became some sort of catalyst for a Paradigm, which is where M comes in as who knows what the M=C's would turn out if he didn't take them out.

That last bit about old gods descending into machine bodies, that's some lore that Ulthar concept idea booklet explained a bit which was some attempt Kadath made to preserve the fading Old Ones (which "old gods" like Cthulhu actually are a part of),. And M in his chapter of Dream Wandering story from Engine Dictionary also brought them up alongside the four Luminary Meta=Critters we saw in Sharnoth VN so he would know what they're made up and all as he was the old king of old ones from the past.

In any case, it is true it's not outright stated but a lot of the similarities and notes in Sharnoth could point to the Meta=Critters there also being Cracking Beings. One main thing is the mention of an "equation", which the only one that ever comes to mind is the Cracking Effect (Kanji: Phenomena Equation). Granted there is M's Equation but that's more to himself (although Engine Dictionary actually made some vague implications of its relation but...SPOILER owo)

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

You know...its hilarious how in reality moran just made the situation worse cuz the M=C's actually evolved into a paradigm but M then ate them.

And yeah some gods like Cthulhu were preserved (while fusing with cabbage) and that dream does seem to indicate the meta=critters are the closest to the old citizens of Sharnoth.

M=C's obviously are better than regular critters plus given proper time it would do a Ultratotep (I can't spell)

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

You know...its hilarious how in reality moran just made the situation worse cuz the M=C's actually evolved into a paradigm but M then ate them.

And yeah some gods like Cthulhu were preserved (while fusing with cabbage) and that dream does seem to indicate the meta=critters are the closest to the old citizens of Sharnoth.

M=C's obviously are better than regular critters plus given proper time it would do a Ultratotep (I can't spell)

Ultrathotep, but yeah lol.

Green stones so far seem to be illusion killers since its used by Moran to harm the Meta=Critters and was said to have been used against Old Ones in the Sharnoth WN.

Probably. Old Ones are supposed to be like embodiments of various things in the world. The Bird of Thunder is one for that of lightning, Dagon was an old one affiliated with water, and so on. It's possible the creatures the four main Meta=Critters are derived/based their form on were also doing of that nature.

In any case, we can probably shelve this up a bit until @Celestial_Pegasus finishes Sona Nyl. The discovery of how Cracking is and where it came from (Addition/Tic Tok Man) would really bump up a whole lot of the CRT's we could bring into on this.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Pretty much. It probably works on lesser types like Salamander and Troll so I suspect they assume it works on M cuz of his nature (but its a bit of a stretch since M well...even better than them so it's likely a guess on their part. My only guess is Thoth since we know nothing about him.)

Yeah we should SN does reveal quite a bit more on cracking.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

In the event that we do just go with it, even the Meta=Critters would be super broke and tanky.

Being formed out of Cracking means they're the embodiment of an equation that manipulates reality and world through understanding and cognition owo.

Critters, Kikai, the Monsters even (off-screen FODDER owo), Messengers, the Killer Clown and Jabberwocky from Novel Anthology...

Also in a way, it would sorta boost certain chars ability wise like Tesla because he can make Killer Clown tangible and was able to destroy Jabberwocky who was made out of information and all that.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

4th Messenger confuse me, it's power is shadow and it drains the life out of and decays stuff, and yet it caused an earthquake strong enough to topple skyscrappers, but localized it to the entrances of buildings? Then once the people were sealed inside they died of starvation, or were they drained by the shadows?

Seems fairly elaborate, the other Messngers weren't so complicated.

Also in the present time it caused no quakes, just drained and decayed stuff, so idk what's going on there, does its shadows have physical force to them?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Celestial_Pegasus

Yeah. Weirdly so, but yeah. It should have a physical effect like the first three before and the next three Messengers after it.

Yeah, it did say it caused an earthquake strong enough to shake up skyscrapers but it seemed as if it was very selective in its destruction by snuffing people out, both from light and also their life as its slowly drained away when the Crack Experiment was underway.

DK how to go about it. The next three Messengers aren't even that complicated like the first three, I'll tell you that much.

In fairness, the Messengers are later revealed to be forms of deaths. 1st was spatial pressure, 2nd was flames, 3rd was wind/air, 4th is shadows and so on. In the Shadow Messengers case, its death specialized in just slowly killing someone with its shadows.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

第4の《御使い》：衰弱死を司る影の天使。ウォールストリートに出現。能力は生物の命を枯らす衰弱の影（デスタッチ）。

To be more precise it is decay.

A shadowy angel governing death from emaciation/prostration. Appears at wall street. Its ability is a debility shadow that withers the life of living beings (death touch)

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Pretty much that.

The Angels govern death, which manifests in the phenomenon that parts of NY and its people suffered.

As already said many times now, what the Angels/Messengers can do vary but it ofc led to the deaths of the millions in NY.

1st was spatial disruption, 2nd was burning people, 3rd was some atmospheric pressure thing via manipulation of air movement, 4th was killing people off by draining their life in the darkness (shadows), etc.

Thinking about it, the Messengers abilities are also like the inverse of the Kikai's but savagely as brutal in killing anything like Critters.

If Kikai's abilities are the result of the deaths they suffered (Ex. Porshion has flame and atomization because they suffered two "deaths" in the form of being burnt alive and crushed), Messengers are the result of the deaths NY and its people suffered.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

On another note, my calc was reevaluated, so will post the Gahkthun thread tonight.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

@Celestial_Pegasus

Ooh, the Gahkthun AP revision. YESH! owo

Seems like it'll affect quite a bunch by the looked of it.

GK and Tesla's Max Power/End of Gahkthun (Stabilized existence), the Knight of Thunder as it was in Gahkthun + Typhon + Ultros Walther...

Wew, that's pretty something else I see the main ones on owo.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Gahkthun ap revisions

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Spoiler: Illusions

About Illusions. In the earth of the 20th Century in the Steampunk Series, the existence of illusions such as Faeries and Divine Spirits have not been confirmed. Some occultists claimed that they were either living beings from the ancient past, or were some sort of higher-order existence. But not many believe in them.

According to the testimony from one of the "witches" in the Salem Trials, known as the tragedy of the last century, the Kings of Illusions have gathered to the end of another sky called the Black Castle, the Dark Palace, the Dark Star, Sharnoth, etc. but eventually, they vanished.

According to the "witch", the kings (Gods) of illusions have vanished, but the Black King who flew in from space (Also referred to as the Dark Space, Outer God/Foreign God, and Nyarlathotep. he is also the owner of "Sharnoth", who sheltered the kings of fantasies before they vanished) is currently the only who exists.

On the other hand, an interesting discovery has been made in recent years in the study of archaeological sites in Kadath. It's been said that no concept of "God" exists in Kadath, and that no religion similar to it is on Earth. However, it's possible that ancient Kadath civilizations several thousand years ago had worshipped the "gods" like giants.

Illusions on Earth: Not present (Completely vanished or in a sleep of death)

Gods (Kings) on Earth: Not present.

Black King: Exists?

Moon King: Exists?

Gods of Kadath: Not present.

Transcendent Species of Kadath (Dragons and the likes): Several

Elysia: ?? (Early 20th Century)

Source, Hikaru Sakurai 2013 Tweets, Steampunk Series Dictionary

Spoiler: Illusions

In the distant past...
There was certainly a time when people continued to exist with those illusions.


A time when nature, illusions and gods continued to exist together?
A time when spirits, monsters, and the abyss continue to exist together?
It was a time when the deceptions of the occultists were common throughout human society.
However, as humanity acquired the light of civilization, they disappeared.
Like a shadow driven out by the light. Yes, the dark, the darkness of night.
Like the stars, it was drowned out by the gray of smoke exhaust.
And.
We have lost sight of the illusions.
There are no illusions in our reality, now we meet them only at the end of our dreams.
The truth and madness that lies in the depths of the abyss is often forgotten by everyone.


Spirits, fairies, gods, they were called by many names.
The old things that were part of human activities in the past.
They are not real creatures, they are just illusions dreamed up by people.
However.
There is only one left, the Black King...

Source, Sharnoth FVR short story

Spoiler: Old Ones

Will people remember the Old Ones?
Spirits, fairies, and gods. Those of old that were once part of people's lives.
They are not real creatures, only illusions dreamed up by people.
After the Black King flew to this planet, not many of them migrated to the dark star of Sharnoth through the Gates of Tartarus, but it was meaningless. They disappeared like shadows before the light of human civilization, which was advancing and developing. It's a pity.
The world belongs to man.
The world is filled with iron and machines.
There is no room for illusion.

Source, Engine Dictionary, Unknown Author Short Story

Spoiler: Old Ones (Again)

Things not of this World

Old Ones

That which is warm. That which fills the world everywhere.

They are manifestations of nature that fill the world, of which there are countless incarnations of that are currently without form.

No one has seen of them, and they are said to have lost their bodies in the distant past, with there currently only some who are part of a Covenant that can hear them.

They are an existence that located in the center of the Desert's Covenant.

Foreign Scholars (Academics) doing research on them have come to referring them as "Elementals", "Spirits", and "Old Gods". But to the Valusians, Old Ones are Old Ones and are referred by nothing else. Neither the people of Valusia nor those of fantasy races have a concept of "God".

Viceroy Harut has openly proclaimed to the city's people that those of fantasy races are closer to Old Ones than Humans, and that they are precious people.

Source, Valusia Official Blog, Valusia Glossary

Got some stuff on Old Ones and Illusions, if anyone's interested.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I'm guessing Illusions on earth = Old Ones of Kadath, huh?

Spirits, Old Gods, all that sort, were around in ancient time that lived with humanity until they disappeared.

Being manifestations of nature, I wonder if that means they're like type 2 AE?

Since they were incarnations or manifestations of nature in the world, but them disappearing and the like didn't make those things disappear either?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

AE type 1 based on type 3 concepts, being like the embodiment of nature you would think it's type 2, but their existence is dependent on humanities perception of them, so it can't really be, it's a weird case.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Type 1 AE, Type 3 concepts.

Not bad.

Maybe this is what GK was also on about cuz of his MUH SCIENCE thing to trump over Illusions when fighting Tesla.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Btw started working on a Cracking page, what do you think is the best pic to use for it?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Btw started working on a Cracking page, what do you think is the best pic to use for it?

Probably Dr. Gii.

He's one of those that come to mind when he uses Cracking, and uses it in the manner we later know what it does like manipulating the numbers that make people up and stuff like that.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That's what i was thinking too, will get a pic of him while he is using Cracking.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Apparently didn't pay attention here, cause clearly this isn't just a Gii thing, but a general Cracking thing, matter manipulation, which apparently Sona-Nyl confirms so yea consistency.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

AE type 1 based on type 3 concepts, being like the embodiment of nature you would think it's type 2, but their existence is dependent on humanities perception of them, so it can't really be, it's a weird case.

To some degree but i think its more like humanity no longer interacts with them. They absolutely still exist its just their powers vary between them getting noticed and such. I would argue type 2 still qualifies just with a strange handicap of not being interactable and such.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

『月は、瞳なんだ』

The Moon is the Eye.

「目?」

The Moon?

『そう。黄金色をした、宇宙の中心にかつて座してすべてを夢見た女王の瞳、その最も大きな欠片があれだ。あれは今も死にながら、眠りながら、僕らを見ている。そして』

Yes. The Golden Eye of the Queen who once sat at the center of the universe and dreamed of everything...that is the biggest piece of it. It is still dying, still sleeping, and still watching us. And...

Source, Ulthar Thoughts (Mushoku no Ulthar Concept Booklets)

---

Was just checking up some of my older TL's.

Yeah, turns out that Azathoth IS the one who not only sat at the center of the universe but also dreamed of everything.

From what the time of this statement was made, this was during in the far past of Kadath back before history was even recorded (so at least several thousand years ago). At that time, Rlim Shaikorth, one of the Shintai's (Old Gods descended down into Engine Bodies to preserve them from fading) referred to Kadath's moon as "Ulthar", funnily enough.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I think with what we got so far, I kinda have an idea of what the cosmology for the Steampunk Series is.

• Azathoth is the Queen who sat at the center of the universe, where she dreamt of everything, said to still be watching everyone/everything even while "dying and sleeping".
• Said "Universe" would be more like a Multiverse(?), as the Steampunk Series contains a whole lot of universes/worlds such as
  • The main series universe,
  • The World of Historical Facts where Edison/Tick Tock Man originated from (basically our reality/history),
  • The universe where Karashrer is set,
  • The one where Celaphis takes place (worldline where Tesla died, GK goes good, and several chars like Kerkan, Gii, Leonardo switched sides morality wise, etc.),
  • Those infinitely stacked/layered universes that M ate up (or some of them?),
  • And something about countless/infinite other worlds that Lily dream wanders into in Sona Nyl WN.
  • There's also this machine mentioned in WAB's World Guide that Sakurai also once stated originally exists across multiple universes so a multiverse is confirmed regardless.
• Going down to the more basic level of sorts, we got many places in the "Universe" like Earth, Kadath (planet whose circumference is several times larger than ours, and that's just the "Unknown Part of Kadath" per Valusia Blog Glossary), Elysia (the planet, not the chick) that exists in Betelguise or some other place in the universe where the Elder Gods live, and even M's Sharnoth since it's in some part of the universe where there's no stars around it...I think. IDK, Sharnoth's weird when I look back at the VN and compare it to the side mats.
• There's also ofc some other places that may be of interest like Elysia's domain where things in existence can't be permitted to exist in it, and then there's Hypnos Bar that's like some "in between conscious and subconscious" border. Then we also got the "End of the World/Wailing Wall" which is like some vague place in white? Maybe like oblivion? IDK. I just know Tesla goes there if he has no one to anchor him into reality and just becomes a straight up illusion with no body. Oh, and the Abyss or something, which is mentioned kinda here and there in side mats and stories including Karashrer.

Hmm...I'm probably missing something else from just the series alone.

This isn't even bringing up the connection of WAB Series being a part of DMB (Demonbane Series), just by itself.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The top part of the hierarchy is still not fully explored, so it could get bigger, if/when Sakurai decides to write new stuff.

But atm, would say Azathoth is Low 1-C at least, especially with the Sonido scaling.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Definitely.

Still a pretty hefty series with a Tier 2 scale cosmology, probably maybe Tier 1 ish with whatever else we find?

That's again not factoring Steampunk being connected to DMB, which IK now that they also kinda have their "own thing" here and there like one of the manga (DYN Freaks) there I be reading (unless I'm really going wrong again on some of its cosmology lore). Just it's own thing.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Will people remember Sharnoth?
The Dark Star, the Black King's Palace.
It is located in the farthest reaches of the universe, far from this star and the planet Kadath. A dark planet that exists in the depths of the cosmos where there are no sun or stars around.
It is where the Black King once sat.
Now it is no one's palace.
A few large manifestations of the Black King may be sleeping there, but that's all, and the time of awakening is not near. That's all there is to it.
But do not forget that, people.

-Engine Dictionary, Unknown Author Story

---

Man, I just love reading side mats that tell you more about other stuff from previous works.

The Old Ones, M and his Sharnoth, the Moon King (Edison/Tick Tock Man, whatever), Elysia and the Elder Gods.

But atm, would say Azathoth is Low 1-C at least, especially with the Sonido scaling.

Sounds about right with all I can find. Sanido apparently claimed itself to be Azathoth's "equal", and one of the doujin short stories Sakurai wrote had them be able to see like everything, which for AZTT being the Golden Eye that can "see through everything" sounds about right.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Spoiler: Shintai

神体

Divine Body (Shintai)


消えゆくはずの神々のために作り上げられた鋼鉄と機関で構成された機械の体。

A Engine body made up of steel and Engines, created for the supposedly vanishing gods.


機体とも呼ばれる。

They are also called Machine Body's.


神の降りた神体は、それぞれの土地に君臨する。

The gods that descended into the Divine Body's reign over their respective lands.

Source, Ulthar Thoughts (Mushoku no Ulthar concept booklet), Setting Glossary

Spoiler: Ulthar's Would-be Setting

神々の時代の終わり──

人々の時代の始まりに伴って、旧き支配者たちは文明の灯すまばゆい光の外へとその姿を消しつつあった。かつて空を駆け海を往き地を統べた神々、その栄光と畏怖に満ちた体躯、存在は、光に消える影の如く消えゆくがさだめ。

けれども。しかし。

人の文明の中心たる『灰色の国』は、消えゆく神々に体を供するすべを編み出した。 すなわち、神々の新たな体躯を鋼鉄と機関（エンジン）とで成す技術である。

かくして、神々は再びその威光を取り戻しつつあった。

繁栄を誕歌する『灰色の国』をはじめとする多くの国々で体を得た神々は力による大いなる恵みを人々に与えた。

人々は繁栄の極みを得た。

神々は仮初めの生を得た。

そして、ある時、白の神が生まれた。

終わりゆくはずの神々の時代、消え去るべき神々の時代、人と神とが暮らすあり得べからざる時代の終罵を導く、最後の、あたらしい神が──


The end of the Age of the Gods...


With the beginning of the Age of Humanity, the old rulers were disappearing out of the dazzling light of civilization. The gods who once rode the skies and oceans and ruled the earth, their glorious and awe-inspiring bodies and beings, were fading away like shadows in the light.

But. But.

The "Gray Country", the center of human civilization, has devised a way to offer bodies to the disappearing gods. In other words, the technology to create new bodies for the gods with steel and Engines.

Thus, the gods were regaining their majesty.

The gods, who had taken on new bodies in the prosperous "Gray Country" and many other countries, gave their people great blessings in the form of power.

The people attained the peak of prosperity.

The gods were given their first temporary lives.

And one day, the White God was born.

The last, new god who would lead to the end of the age of the gods, the age of the gods that was supposed to end, the age of the gods that was to disappear, the end of the impossible age in which man and god lived together...

Source, Ulthar Thoughts, Easy Guide

More on Ulthar ish stuff and also a bit on the Shintai.

So pretty much, everyone of the illusions including the Old Gods (Kings) were disappearing due to human civilizations light (science), but there was a time where Kadath civ at least attempted to preserve them by making machine bodies out of steel and Engines, where the Old Gods would descend into and stay around while also regaining their "majesty" and rule over their respective lands. Funnily enough, M's also a Shintai listed on their known only as the "Black God" (Black King), albeit he's described as a "non-standard" Shintai and the like so he's naturally not susceptible to losing anything compared to the old gods.

We DK yet what became of the rest of these Shintai but given the snippet of what Ulthar's plot PROBABLY could be (cuz who knows again when Sakurai really gonna resume the series...) and what M said about them in the Dictionary's short story, they're probably not around anymore. I mean there was Cthulhu, but I'm pretty sure that was a case of Cthulhu merging with Babbage who also had a mechanized body from what I gather.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The 5th Messenger doesn't seem that op, it's just blades

...>>>It severs things at a conceptual level

Not surprising since it's already stated Messengers destroy stuff at a metaphysical level, but it's like the first time outside the mini-games, that anything conceptual is acknowledged.

Side note, a lot of what the Messengers have done so far is ability based, it's not like with Critter like Stone Golem shaking cities with just it's voice, and there have been a couple instances where Lily's train can stun them for like a second, so kinda doubtful their durability scales to their ap.

Also can i say i am loving this? Psychological stuff is my fav, hence my Inganock love, but Sona-Nyl so far has just as interesting and deep a cast, with more psychological stuff, could dethrone Inganock as my fav, will have to see how it all wraps up first.

Oh the music is top tier too.