StarCraft Revisions: Capital Ships, Protoss Heroes, and Normal Queen of Blades Kerrigan

[Assaltwaffle]

Alright. Kerrigan is in Low 2-C. Now, on to the bulk of the revisions. Orginally brought up in this thread, the logic to why we currently rate the Capital Ships is flawed. The Capital Ships (I.E. Carrier, Battlecruiser, Void Ray, ect.) are rated as High 6-A, because we believed that they could not be destroyed by the hero units, such as Zeratul or Artanis. "If they could, why would the invasion of Auir mattered?" was the mentality. Now we believe this is PIS. Why?

Normal Queen of Blades Kerrigan has the ability to use Implosion, an ability that uses Telekinesis to destroy mechanical units, including capital ships. So, is QoB Kerrigan High 6-A? No. She is far inferior to her Primal QoB self, and has no feats to support such a rating. Instead, it is time to downgrade the capital ships. That said, we can't go too low. Obviously the capital ships are vastly above the likes of the Ultralisk (a Void Ray can kill an Ultralisk without even getting near full power), but how far?

Well, we start out at Town level. The Leviantha gains this rating out of pure size, measuring a massive 10 kilometers. So, is this our cut-off? No. We go one sub-tier further, to 7-B. This is because the Yamato Cannon is able to destroy entire cities in one shot. But we aren't done yet. The Leviathan has 14 kilometer tentacles that can extend in less than one third of a second. Obviously this packs a punch, and that punch was calculated here. So now we have High 6-C capital ships, Protoss heroes, Hybrid, and Normal QoB Kerrigan.

Now, about the Protoss heroes. Artanis is indeed comparable to Primal Queen of Blades Kerrigan, but only during Legacy of the Void. The lore seems to differ here; Primal Queen of Blades is described as being second to none by Abathur, who has seen such Protoss before, but then Artanis is treated as similar in power in LotV. Therefore, I suggest the Protoss heroes be given a second key, one for Pre-Legacy of the Void and one for Legacy of the Void. The Second key would be where they are now, while the first would be High 6-C, scaling to Kerrigan.

TLDR:

Capital Ships: Downgraded from "High 6-A" to "High 6-C" via the Leviathan.

Normal Queen of Blades: Upgraded from "At least 8-B" to "High 6-C" via crushing Capital Ships.

Protoss Heroes: New Key, one for Pre-Legacy of the Void, in which they are High 6-C via Zeratul breaking free from Kerrigan's Telekinesis. The second key takes the place of their current rating.

Hybrid: New Key, same as the Protoss heroes.

Miscellaneous: Kerrigan Summary axed and redone (This thing is a novel right now); Kerrigan gains Gravity Manipulation via Implosion being a gravity well; Kerrigan gains Biological Manipulation via Razor Swarm being a cluster of microbes; Kerrigan gains Mind Manipulation via Psionic Storm; Protoss heroes gain Resistance to Mind Manipulation via resisting Amon's influence, something the Zerg and unprotected Terrans cannot do; All users of Psionic Storm gain Matter Manipulation on the Atomic level; Corruptors gain Molecular destruction; Zealots gain Resistance to Pain Manipulation; Immortals and Scouts gain Antimatter Manipulation; Colossus gain Enhanced Senses.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

All of this looks good to me.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Alright, so that is one supporter in favor. Maybe we can get a neutral admin to look this over and see if it is reasonable?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

What does Psionic Storm do to warrant being Mind Manip?

Everything else seems alright to me

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Psionic Storm tears at all aspects of a target. This includes all layers of the body, armor, and even the mind. Kerrigan was also immune to Amon's mind manipulation after she was cleansed of his influence, furthering this ability.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Man, i really hate to be that guy but might i see a scan where it says that?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Yeah, I'll scroll through the StarCraft Field Manuel. Give me a second.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Found it. They also apparently have matter manipulation on an atomic level with it, so that is fun. Here you go.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Mkay, that checks out, and yeah that would be Atomic-level matter manip

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I really should sit down and read the field manual all the way through one day. The thing is just so long though. It is like reading an entire book.

Edit: Also with that knowledge the High Templar's feat of vaporizing Zerglings would turn into atomizing Zerglings, although the calc wouldn't change much.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Hey, who knows, 5 minutes in and you found atomic matter manip

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I should at least read the Zerg and Protoss entries. The Terrans are generally much more benign and really have absolutely no business competing with the two other far superior races.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Looks like the Corruptor can destroy matter on a molecular level.

Edit: Zealots have an incredibly high tolerance to pai.

Edit 2: Immortals use antimatter to attack.

Edit 3: Colossus can accurately predict movement. Maybe enhanced senses?

Edit 4: Scouts also use antimatter weapons capable of destroying Battlecruisers.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well that is all I can find for now. Time for bed.

 

[Gemmysaur]

Psionic Shockwave - This powerful low-frequency blast of concentrated psionic energy essentially tears apart organic tissue at the cellular level. (Archon)

Scarabs - When launched from the Reaver, these highly explosive smart bombs tracked their targets on the ground and detonated on impact, generating a devastating electromagnetic field. A strike would cripple entire installations and lay waste to clustered ground troops. (Reaver)

Solar Core - True to its name, the core is in fact a miniature, synthetic star fueled by a rare but highly exothermic material called solarite. (Spear of Adun)

Fighter Mode - With a standard loadout of Lanzer torpedoes, the Viking can knock anything out of the sky, including capital ships. (Viking)

Yamato Canno - ...a devastating plasma weapon with enough firepower to decimate cities. (Battlecruiser)

 

[DerpCity]

I think the changes in the main post make sense. I am only concerned that Implosion destroying Battlecruisers may be a game mechanic.

@Assalt/@Gemmy That said, I'm hesitant to scale Vikings/Corruptors/Scouts/Other air-based capital ship hunters to Capital ships despite the statements. I feel that while they can fight units like Battlecruisers, it would only be in a large group, as the Leviathan was pretty much unharmed by a viking's attacks at the start of the HotS cinematic, and they're never shown actually threatening capital ships at any point, only other Capital Ships.

 

[Gemmysaur]

It would be relatively minor damage only because the damage area is negligible compared to a capital ship's enormous size. If anything, their tiny damage area translates to chipping damage against big ships. SC1 cinematics iirc shows big ships getting picked apart by smaller ones. I can't load videos for the life of me at the moment though so take that with a grain of salt.

Also, their glass cannons. Most if not all air units are. I think primary capital ships like Cruiser, Lev and Momship are the ones that aren't (I didn't mention Carrier because I don't know if the Broodwar era versions can tank their own purifier beam).

On another note, how fast can Lev fly without going slipspace and why not use that with its mass to get its AP? Or is that not allowed because KE stuff?

 

[DerpCity]

Its been a while since I've seen the SC1 cutscenes too, but there are only 2 scenes I remember of smaller ships doing any significant damage to a capital ship. The first was the last cutscene of the first Protoss Campaign, where Mutalisks flew inside the Ganthrithor and made large explosions inside it before it crashed. Even then, I'm fairly certain we normally treat attacking someone's insides as "negating durability" in a sense, and that I feel like that would qualify as, and the Ganthrithor was still flying until Tassadar blew it up.

The other time was before the mission where you recruit Edmund Duke into the Sons of Korhal, when a single scourge took out a Battlecruiser, but handfuls of scourge are stated in the field manual and shown in a HotS mission to take out a much larger type of Battlecruiser, the Gorgon Class, than Duke's Behemoth class, and... well, the cutscene showed scourge as comparable in size to the Battlecruiser... but later in the cutscene with the Ganthrithor, they're the size of Interceptors... Hm...

Either way, I'm not sure its safe to treat whats at best chip damage as fully scaling their AP from a capital ships durability, especially considering Mutalisks in general would completely annihilate any ground force when the field manual suggests that even Marines can deal enough damage that they need to fall back and regenerate.

Personally, I'm still adamant that we should scale the Leviathan to the other capital ships in AP, at least for the fact they're armed with swarms of scourge according to the field manual.

Side note, have we ever seen the Mutalisk use its Glave Wurms in a cutscene? We only see them fire AoE, in SC1, or Single Target, in SC2, acid spit at targets in cutscenes IIRC.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

The Leviathan probably should scale. The Impaler Tentacles should be strong enough to do damage to other ships.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Also, I wonder if we can find the mass of the Impaler tentacle, and then find AP. That thing can extend 10 kilometers in less than a second.

 

[DerpCity]

@Assalt That'd be cool. Would it be safe to find the size of the tentacle from its In-Game model? We know the creature is 10 kilometers long and could scale the tentacle's dimensions from there, considering the fact that IIRC we don't see the tentacles in any cutscenes.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Derp

We do, actually. Right here. Unfortunately the Leviathan is at an angle.

 

[DerpCity]

I can't watch it right now as I'm at school, but if its calcable then it'd be rad to see what a tentacle moving at least 29 times the speed of sound can do.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well, turns out they move at 133 times the speed of sound, and the result is pretty high.

User_blog:Assaltwaffle/StarCraft:_Leviathan_Impaler_Tentacle

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't think Implosion should be considered a game mechanic. While normal Queen of Blades is indeed much weaker than her Primal self, she's still considered a threat to the universe. She's also capable of surviving point blank nukes from Ghosts and Spectres, so City Level Queen of Blades Kerrigan is easily legit.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@DarkDragon

You look over the calc I posted? That could put even normal QoB into tier 6.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Oh yeah, didn't see that, I was responding to Derp's post. Will look at it right away.

 

[DerpCity]

@Assalt So does that mean Large Island level capital ships and Massively Hypersonic attack speed for the Leviathan? Either way I'm happy we won't be treating the Leviathan as a great wall anymore.

@DDM Threat to the universe could easily be hyperbole, but I get what you mean.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't mean destroy the universe, but she was feared by both the Terrans and Protoss at the time. Anyway, High 6-C is still more reasonable for Kerrigan though. I do wonder if the capitals ships durability would scale to the AP of the Ghost nukes however.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Pretty clear cut if you ask me.
Don't know starcraft that well, but everything is laid out pretty cut and dry for me.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

The High 6-C calc has just been accepted by Dark. I have edited the OP accordingly.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Bumping this. Does anyone have any further issues, or are these OK to be applied?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well need an Admin to unlock Kerrigan's page for a moment, but if they say it's alright, the results can be applied.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Well technically a content mod could do that as well. I am just making sure no one else has a problem with the abilities/scaling.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Bumping once again, last call for anyone not in favor to make their peace.

 

[Ryukama]

These seem alright first glance.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Wonderful. Can Kerrigan's profile be unlocked for a little bit?

 

[Ryukama]

I'm going to have to leave in a bit. Can someone else unlock it?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Looking through, everything seems alright from a cursory glance.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Alright, I have finished revising Kerrigan's page. A lot of small stuff needed changing in addition to what was listed. I think her profile looks good now! You can close whenever ready.