StarCraft Major Revision Thread Attempt 2

[Qawsedf234]

Unrelated but I saw the JJK thread about UES an realized I missed a part in the justification

In order to qualify for a Limited Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using must have explanations or showings that indicate that the powers which should scale to each other draw from the same source of power (or can convert between the different kinds of power) and use up a similar amount of power to each other. Alternatively, it would also suffice to show that the user can invest similar amounts of power into any given technique, should they want to.

Do Psionics in StarCraft have justifications for the bolded parts?

 

[Not_Icarus]

We just got derailed with a very contested topic in the fandom sorry lol. But anyways yes actually.

There's a psionic move called kinetic blast that's works similar to Makima's bang technique or force push and is pretty much an invisible projectile technique used to damage people. Mindblast varies from just damaging people's brains to straight up making your head explode. Psi storm can range from a small room sized attack that knocks down enemies to straight up atomizing people from existence.

God tiers like Amon in the dark timeline blew up the universe once he acquired all the biomass and psionic energy in the galaxy. Xel'Naga Kerrigan is deemed superior to be superior this. She has a move called quantum beam. Normally things are stated to be atomic levels of disintegration but in her god form it seems to be upgraded. Her god form is attained by absorbing the essence and psionics of another Xel'Naga named Ouros who prophecized Amon's defeat at the hands of Xel'Naga powered Amon. A weaker form of Amon powered by the flesh of countless Zerg and Protoss and their psionics was stated to be completely invulnerable to even the planet cracking weaponry of the Protoss in his incomplete charging state. Once we took out his power sources, he was still powerful enough to one shot everything from our arsenal until he got orbital bombarded to death by the entire golden armada. There's also Tal'Darim legends of him slicing down entire planets in half with giant baneblades he can manifest in his default Xel'Naga form (baneblades are pretty much just another name for the energy blades in the series).

I think this should be sufficient arguments to support those bold text imo.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Kerrigan can also fire up energy attack explosions from the size of a ki blast to base wiping levels of power.

She also used what seems to be mindblast on Arcturus Mengsk in the finale of HotS. This powered up move not only destroyed Mengsk out of the picture, but also the entire building section around them. It's poetic given how her parents died from a quick instant mind blast when she was still a kid who couldn't control her powers properly and accidentally killed her parents with them in moments of mental distress. She killed Mengsk in a slower fashion to make him personally feel the pain and fear of dying first. Normally the move is instant too.

 

[Qawsedf234]

There's a psionic move called kinetic blast that's works similar to Makima's bang technique or force push and is pretty much an invisible projectile technique used to damage people. Mindblast varies from just damaging people's brains to straight up making your head explode. Psi storm can range from a small room sized attack that knocks down enemies to straight up atomizing people from existence.

None of that is UES. Since they vary in power so drastically it actually implies the opposite.

God tiers like Amon in the dark timeline blew up the universe once he acquired all the biomass and psionic energy in the galaxy. Xel'Naga Kerrigan is deemed superior to be superior this. She has a move called quantum beam. Normally things are stated to be atomic levels of disintegration but in her god form it seems to be upgraded. Her god form is attained by absorbing the essence and psionics of another Xel'Naga named Ouros who prophecized Amon's defeat at the hands of Xel'Naga powered Amon. A weaker form of Amon powered by the flesh of countless Zerg and Protoss and their psionics was stated to be completely invulnerable to even the planet cracking weaponry of the Protoss in his incomplete charging state. Once we took out his power sources, he was still powerful enough to one shot everything from our arsenal until he got orbital bombarded to death by the entire golden armada. There's also Tal'Darim legends of him slicing down entire planets in half with giant baneblades he can manifest in his default Xel'Naga form (baneblades are pretty much just another name for the energy blades in the series).

Those are all nice feats but none of that answers the boldest parts.

Kerrigan can also fire up energy attack explosions from the size of a ki blast to base wiping levels of power

If the power level is variable then it's not UES.

 

[Not_Icarus]

But psionics are the source of power of pretty much everything in the series. Void powers are also that but stronger and more primordial, one of the characters also theorizes that psionics all came from void energies. There's good evidence for it too as you can parry psi blades and void blades against each other.

But Kerrigan does choose the strength of her abilities. Her psionics let's her do that. Other characters do it too with their telekinesis and energy blasts which are all based on their psionic power scale. Amon was also getting stronger and stronger the more psionic energy he was absorbing. It took the Protoss to cut off his power sources to make his durability weak enough to be harmed by their own weapons.

Can I get some more elaboration on the bolded parts questions? I may be able to answer better if you do.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Mind blast, psionic storm and kinetic blast are all psionic techniques in nature. They're abilities that people in the franchise share and their power depends on the intent and psionic strength of the user.

We literally had a Dragonball beam style power struggle between Narud and Kerrigan in a fight for psionic dominance. Narud is a Xel'Naga himself with great psionic power that rivals Primal Kerrigan and he came closest to killing Kerrigan in a direct duel. They both can physically and enhance their bodies with psionics and make psionic blades with their body parts.

 

[Qawsedf234]

But psionics are the source of power of pretty much everything in the series

They are, but what I missed before with UES was evidence that you can spread your power equally between all abilities.

Can I get some more elaboration on the bolded parts questions?

As an example very obvious example:

• D&D makes have spell levels (1-9 usually). Spell levels determine how strong the attack is and attacks of equal spell level are roughly comparable. So a lightning bolt, fire ball and ice shard cast by a wizard will all pack roughly the same strength (UES)
• In Dragon Ball Ki is the basis of everything. The more ki you have the stronger, tougher and faster you become. All techniques are just ki being focused and the characters can amp themselves with that same energy. For example Goku when going all out didn't do much damage to Cell with his punches, but SS2 Gohan clowned him in about two strikes because he had more ki to amplify his strikes.
• Eredin from the Witcher however, despite being able to cast large storms with magic, has no indication that he can put that energy into other spells.

Basically what makes the feat not just Environmental Destruction

 

[Qawsedf234]

Mind blast, psionic storm and kinetic blast are all psionic techniques in nature. They're abilities that people in the franchise share and their power depends on the intent and psionic strength of the user.

That's not UES. UES is saying if Psionic Storm is, as an example, 6-C then Kinetic Blast should also be 6-C because they can put the same level of energy into it.

We literally had a Dragonball beam style power struggle between Narud and Kerrigan in a fight for psionic dominance.

An energy beam clash doesn't have anything to do with UES.

They both can physically and enhance their bodies with psionics and make psionic blades with their body parts.

The former is evidence for a complete UES, but only under the assumption they can enhance themselves to be 1:1 with their psionic power output.

As an example: Tornado from OPM can enhance her strength with psionics to comparable AP levels since she can physically damage other High 6-A characters. Which is why her Striking Strength scales to her AP.

 

[Not_Icarus]

"In Dragon Ball Ki is the basis of everything. The more ki you have the stronger, tougher and faster you become. All techniques are just ki being focused and the characters can amp themselves with that same energy. For example Goku when going all out didn't do much damage to Cell with his punches, but SS2 Gohan clowned him in about two strikes because he had more ki to amplify his strikes."

Yeah they can. They can do massive energy waves and battle for who's stronger like a Dragonball beam duel. Just replace Ki with Psionics and it's basically the same. The psionics are also used their striking strength. Tassadar relied on his psionically enhanced fists first before choosing to duel with his psionic blades against Kerrigan who also did the same.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Just replace Ki with Psionics and it's basically the same.

That's what I'm asking for. In Dragon Ball you have characters resist or overpower attacks that are directly stated to be their full energy or capable of destroying a planet.

Does SC have those same statements/showings?

 

[Not_Icarus]

"For example Tornado from OPM can enhance her strength with psionics to comparable AP levels since she can physically damage other High 6-A characters."

Narud does that to Kerrigan. On the surface he's just a scientist but when he goes serious, Narud can do damage against High 6-A Kerrigan like how Tatsumaki does against enemies of that scale

 

[Not_Icarus]

"That's what I'm asking for. In Dragon Ball you have characters resist or overpower attacks that are directly stated to be their full energy or capable of destroying a planet.

Does SC have those same statements/showings?"

Yes, Narud wasn't disintegrated by Kerrigan's full energy because he was strong enough to resist her. She had to go personally beat him up first to finish the job.

 

[Not_Icarus]

"That's not UES. UES is saying if Psionic Storm is, as an example, 6-C then Kinetic Blast should also be 6-C because they can put the same level of energy into it."

Yes, Kerrigan getting shonen power up was described to be immeasurably psionically superior in every way and she can do just that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Narud does that to Kerrigan. On the surface he's just a scientist but when he goes serious, Narud can do damage against High 6-A Kerrigan like how Tatsumaki does against enemies of that scale

You're missing the process here. Kerrigan/Anyone isn’t automatically High 6-A. You have to prove that the Storm Feats scale to their other abilities in a 1:1 fashion. After you prove that, they you can show that their physicals should scale to their other abilities.

Yes, Narud wasn't disintegrated by Kerrigan's full energy because he was strong enough to resist her. She had to go personally beat him up first to finish the job.

I mean, watching the fight between Narud and Kerrigan nothing in that shows UES. The fact that he doesn't even notable damage the Nydus Worm is actually a pretty bad anti-feat.

Yes, Kerrigan getting shonen power up was described to be immeasurably psionically superior in every way and she can do just that.

That's not a UES justification. That's just her getting stronger so her attacks are stronger by proxy.

Also could you try and limit your responses to one post? You can just select and hover over my text to quote it.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Sorry, was pretty much typing at the same time you were.

Kerrigan's storm feat should scale as it is directly tied and done by her pure psionic potential like Archons. Archons are made of pure psionic energy and everything they do is based off their psionics. They can even physically karate chop off Ultralisk blades who can survive direct nuclear blasts against them. The Twilight Archon also did a storm feat just by powering up. Hybrids can do psionic storms and they can harm her. Amon has the same abilities as the hybrids so he also has psionic storm. Even at his depowered hybrid state, he was still deemed stronger than Primal Kerrigan. Amon's hybrid body if completed, would have had enough psionic power to physically destroy planets like how the Xel'Naga temple did to Shakuras. His hybrid body was supposed to be his inuniverse proxy for his main body that couldn't go back to the main universe yet. His hybrid body even with psionics lesser to his Xel'Naga body was still superior to everyone elses.

I just pretty much treat the nydus worm thing as the same thing as Dragonball down to earth stuff. Like how despite being planet busters, they still just throw rocks and other debris at each other. Also cinematic drama imo. Goku was also getting literally crushed by rocks.

Her psionics countered his void energy though, that should be evidence for UES as they are similar energy sources.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Kerrigan's storm feat should scale as it is directly tied and done by her pure psionic potential like Archons. Archons are made of pure psionic energy and everything they do is based off their psionics. They can even physically karate chop off Ultralisk blades who can survive direct nuclear blasts against them. The Twilight Archon also did a storm feat just by powering up.

So to use an example of a decently explained UES let's look at Devil Energy from DMC (do note I'm not asking for anywhere near the amount of information they have);

1. Demon Energy is directly tied to all their physical stats
2. Demon Energy is the source for all of their abilities.
3. Demon Energy is powered equally. Meaning the more energy you pump into something the stronger it becomes

Now let's look at the bolded parts from the page I quoted before:

In order to qualify for a Limited Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using must have explanations or showings that indicate that the powers which should scale to each other draw from the same source of power (or can convert between the different kinds of power) and use up a similar amount of power to each other. Alternatively, it would also suffice to show that the user can invest similar amounts of power into any given technique, should they want to.

Does DMC qualify for the first? No, there's no indication that powers take up a similar amount of energy for usage.

Does DMC qualify for the second? Yes, because attacks just involves putting more Demon Energy into it.

As an alternate example, in Harry Potter magic is drawn from a nebulous source and a stronger Wizard can cast a stronger spell, but there's no indication that a fireball spell and a storm spell crossover in energy consumption or AP.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Alright I'll try.

1.) I don't really know how to understand this rule tbh sorry but I'll try regardless. For the top tiers, they often typically are physically strong as they are as the hybrids for example are supposed to be a mirror of Amon's xel'naga form but much weaker so no tier 5 and above stuff because of their much weaker psionics in comparison. For example, Tassadar kept up with Kerrigan with psionically charged fists in combat, Kerrigan can rip apart Ultralisk tier units (can tank nukes) like Hybrids who are superior to them with her bare hands as shown in Flashpoint. She says she feels stronger than before after being purged off Amon's influence with her newfound psionic strength. It was so strong that she felt like her senses could literally "taste" Prometheus Station.

2.) Yes, psionics and void energy are the backbone of energy powers in the series. The psionic Xel'Naga are the shephards of the Infinite Cycle as whenever they start a new universe, they also seed the new universe with life such as stars, planets and etc. The powerful Dark Archon Ulrezaj who's closest comparison is also the Twilight Archon made all his attacks more powerful by absorbing more Protoss and their psionic into himself and by feeding on his followers. The Twilight Archon is made off 1 Dark Templar and Khalai Templar while Ulrezaj was made out of 7 Dark Templar with Ulrezaj overpowering the other personalities to make himself the sole or main personality of the merger During the Rite of Rak'Shir, it is a duel of both 1v1 skills and strategic prowess. Alarak is shown directly absorbing psionic powers from his allies to push Malash into the other side of the map. Rak'Shir can be done with either just 1 person or an entire army. This also happens in a short story that had Alarak on the support side of the duel and during the last act of the duel, he betrayed Nuroka by giving off his psionic energy to Malash in which Malash used to quickly overpower and defeat Nuroka into defeat and then toss him into the pit like how Alarak did in the ingame version of it. During the end of the short story, Malash said that he senses a great power within Alarak and suspects that he too will eventually try to betray him one way or another like he did in LotV.

3.) The stronger energy you put into a psionic beam for example, the more powerful and destructive they will be. Other abilities like mindblast and psi storm also take up this principle in the world of psionic energy powers.

 

[TyphonEX]

You're missing the process here. Kerrigan/Anyone isn’t automatically High 6-A. You have to prove that the Storm Feats scale to their other abilities in a 1:1 fashion. After you prove that, they you can show that their physicals should scale to their other abilities.

I mean, watching the fight between Narud and Kerrigan nothing in that shows UES. The fact that he doesn't even notable damage the Nydus Worm is actually a pretty bad anti-feat.


That's not a UES justification. That's just her getting stronger so her attacks are stronger by proxy.

Also could you try and limit your responses to one post? You can just select and hover over my text to quote it.

Actually, this source shows that attacks such as psionic storm concentrate the psionic energy already within a certain area, meaning that this attack makes use of energy present in the environment rather than the High Templar's (the "caster") own power. This just further justifies your own skepticism of why Kerrigan's storm should scale to her own power.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Other cases has them produced by the users themselves with Kerrigan powering up rather than getting weaker after getting deinfested and hybrid inheriting some abilities like psi storm. Plus psi storm is also described as the raw physical showcase of a high templar's power so there is more or at least a good amount of cases where psionics aren't reliant on the environment themselves. Powerful High Templar like Tassadar can keep up with even Kerrigan herself. Kerrigan easily ripping apart hybrids after getting powered up in psionics from deinfestation is a blatant example of the relationship between psionics and physicals. She didn't even have her Queen of Blade body parts like wing talons anymore.

Two High Templar who normally can't physically fight an Ultralisk can match one when they merge and multiply their psionics together.

Psi storms can also be used in no energy areas such as the vacuum of space.

Another psionic ability called Mindblast is explicitly tied to the user's psionic self potency and intent. Ranging from brain knocks out to nuclear level explosions. Nova can annihilate entire hive clusters with her mad power mind blast and even as a child her mind blast was compared to a nuclear bomb because she breached through the nuclear resilient structure of the Terran family sky scraper. Weaker psionics like Spectres has a move called psionic lash which decimates heavy tier units like Thors and Ultralisks. Kerrigan and the other characters comparable to her are all deemed easily superior to Nova. Like how even Alarak wasn't afraid of Nova when he could easily overpower her due to his more immense psionics like how he easily read through her mind even when she tried to block him from doing so.

Kerrigan's psionic lightning at full power overpowered Narud's psionic void energy in a beam power duel.

After turning Primal Kerrigan says she feels like she can physically rip apart worlds while Zurvan says Amon truly can as his psionics as a Xel'Naga was still far above hers.

Primal Kerrigan caused a base wiping explosion comparable to the nukes in-game and she can do the same on her own with her own powers. The psionic technique called Apocalypse does the same thing without the need of dropping in from a drop pod.

Zerg are also nuke resilient as Ultralisk can survive getting hit by the nukes and Kerrigan's base managed to survive from Warfield's nuclear arsenal which was stronger than the usual Terran nuclear attacks as they launched multiple assaults at Kerrigan's base and forces all at once.

 

[TyphonEX]

Other cases has them produced by the users themselves with Kerrigan powering up rather than getting weaker after getting deinfested and hybrid inheriting some abilities like psi storm. Plus psi storm is also described as the raw physical showcase of a high templar's power so there is more or at least a good amount of cases where psionics aren't reliant on the environment themselves. Powerful High Templar like Tassadar can keep up with even Kerrigan herself. Kerrigan easily ripping apart hybrids after getting powered up in psionics from deinfestation is a blatant example of the relationship between psionics and physicals. She didn't even have her Queen of Blade body parts like wing talons anymore.

Two High Templar who normally can't physically fight an Ultralisk can match one when they merge and multiply their psionics together.

Psi storms can also be used in no energy areas such as the vacuum of space.

Another psionic ability called Mindblast is explicitly tied to the user's psionic self potency and intent. Ranging from brain knocks out to nuclear level explosions. Nova can annihilate entire hive clusters with her mad power mind blast and even as a child her mind blast was compared to a nuclear bomb because she breached through the nuclear resilient structure of the Terran family sky scraper. Weaker psionics like Spectres has a move called psionic lash which decimates heavy tier units like Thors and Ultralisks. Kerrigan and the other characters comparable to her are all deemed easily superior to Nova. Like how even Alarak wasn't afraid of Nova when he could easily overpower her due to his more immense psionics like how he easily read through her mind even when she tried to block him from doing so.

Kerrigan's psionic lightning at full power overpowered Narud's psionic void energy in a beam power duel.

After turning Primal Kerrigan says she feels like she can physically rip apart worlds while Zurvan says Amon truly can as his psionics as a Xel'Naga was still far above hers.

Primal Kerrigan caused a base wiping explosion comparable to the nukes in-game and she can do the same on her own with her own powers. The psionic technique called Apocalypse does the same thing without the need of dropping in from a drop pod.

Zerg are also nuke resilient as Ultralisk can survive getting hit by the nukes and Kerrigan's base managed to survive from Warfield's nuclear arsenal which was stronger than the usual Terran nuclear attacks as they launched multiple assaults at Kerrigan's base and forces all at once.

Sources would be helpful here. Remember that you need to prove that there is a psionic energy source here which powers all attacks and physical stats that you're trying to scale, including Kerrigan's storm, proportionally based on the power inputted by the psionics user, which is what is being asked of by Qawsedf234 as proof of a UES. The only things that you bring up here that may imply this are your point about psi storms (which I'm pretty sure you're misrepresenting, although I can't be sure without a source) and the mindblast.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Two High Templar matching an Ultralisk in physicals by merging into an Archon

Psi storms are just a form of psionic lightning. Units like High Templar can choose to do lightning blasts instead of aoe attack like psi storm which drains more energy from them. A high templar literally atomized multiple zerglings at once in the LotV trailer. Other energy users like stalkers draw their powers from the void which powers everything they do like shooting their particle disruptors at enemies to atomize them at the atomic level. Their particle disruptors (tried to find the direct source with way back machine but it's too far gone as it doesn't work properly now and the only thing left is the sc wiki that recorded its data disrupting matter to the atomic level) are deemed weaker than the khalai's antimatter phase disruptors which are psionically powered. Nerazim and Dark Templar can do psi storms too despite using the void as their main source of power.

Tassadar boxing with Kerrigan.

An even stronger archon, the Twilight Archon caused a tiny nuclear explosion around it just by transforming and causes a planetary visible storm similar to Kerrigan's

Kerrigan after recovering from the artifact's deinfestation and getting her powers back stronger than before could taste the entire space station and the first thing she did was decimate an entire squad of marines just by yelling. Primal Kerrigan is deemed superior to everyone except Amon himself. Zurvan states her power is boundless but inferior to Amon's who can rip worlds apart with his psionic might. The Tal'Darim also believe this as his psionics are believed to be powerful enough to make planet sized psi blades. The Primal Zerg get stronger by eating each other and absorbing their essence. Zurvan didn't consider her worth consuming before she killed the rest of the Primal pack leaders. But of course, Kerrigan killed him and absorbed his essence instead to become even stronger.

Her mind blast also works on hybrids which instantly killed one and she physically ripped apart another barehanded

Also he also says that we just need fit at least 1 of these to apply for UES.

1. Demon Energy is directly tied to all their physical stats
2. Demon Energy is the source for all of their abilities.
3. Demon Energy is powered equally. Meaning the more energy you pump into something the stronger it becomes

1. They can
2. Yes
3. An easy example as said before is Kerrigan's psionic lightning that was going at max power against Narud's psionic void beam empowered by multiple temples. Kerrigan's sheer psionic power alone was enough to keep the duel going until Stukov destroyed the temple for Narud to get overpowered by Kerrigan's own lightning. The ending cutscene of hots is an example of Kerrigan using a small amount of her power to kill Mengsk and destroy the building they were in to the point of the sky being easily visible. An incomplete depowered hybrid amon still had enough psionics to 1 shot everything in our base when he was cut off from his essence and psionic power sources.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Actually, this source shows that attacks such as psionic storm concentrate the psionic energy already within a certain area,

From the look of it it's more like they can only expend so much energy in an area

The celestial rage of a Psionic Storm can be a terrifying sight for any unit. This physical display of the full Psionic power of the High Templar can cause massive damage, and all units caught inside the area effect of the Psionic Storm will suffer heavy damage -- or possibly even be destroyed. As a Psionic Storm concentrates all the Psionic energy over a given area, overlapping Psionic Storms do not have any greater effect than a single one.

So a Psionic Storm that's focused over a single target wouldn't be any stronger/weaker than storms that cover a continent. Since it's entirely based on saturation.

. They can

You haven't proved this one. A lot of your claims are boiling down to "X can damage this thing which is strong". That's not a UES. It's "X can physically output power equal to their energy AP".

The Ultralisk example would be an anti-feat if anything, as an High 6-A Archon struggling against it doesn't make sense especially when the glossing beams for the Protoss can cleanse Zerg infestations.

Fighting Hybrids doesn't mean anything unless you establish that Hybrids can withstand High 6-A attacks.

Someone physically fighting Kerrigan doesn't mean much unless you can showcase that she can enhance herself to High 6-A durability.

Psionics getting stronger with more energy is good though.

 

[DaReaperMan]

The Ultralisk example would be an anti-feat if anything, as an High 6-A Archon struggling against it doesn't make sense especially when the glossing beams for the Protoss can cleanse Zerg infestations.

Jumping in for a bit

Uh, bro, you realize the smallest ship that can do that is a void ray right? You know, only half the size of a carrier and is literally a glass-cannon ship?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Actually I may just be biased.

@DarkDragonMedeus What are your thoughts about StarCraft having a full UES over a LES or NPE?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Uh, bro, you realize the smallest ship that can do that is a void ray right? You know, only half the size of a carrier and is literally a glass-cannon ship?

You missed the point of my statement. The storm feats is saying that an Archon can punch with 167 Petatons of Force. Dying to a glassing beam doesn't make sense if they can withstand such a concentrated force of energy.

 

[DaReaperMan]

You missed the point of my statement. The storm feats is saying that an Archon can punch with 167 Petatons of Force. Dying to a glassing beam doesn't make sense if they can withstand such a concentrated force of energy.

Glassing a planet can be anywhere from 183.24 Petatons to 70 ******* Exatons!

Hell, there's even a Low 5-B glassing feat for the protoss that's basically bog-standard purification sans the fact it comes from a ******* space station

Also, the protoss use a lot of heat and dura neg, so it's not out of the question for an Ultralisk to be High 6-A and still get ****** by the Protoss

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Actually I may just be biased.

@DarkDragonMedeus What are your thoughts about StarCraft having a full UES over a LES or NPE?

I'm not yet 100% certain, but I might need more time to think on it. But I also kind of what to here Icarus' proposal first. But I think their control over energy manipulation is consistently done with really great precision given how High Templar are able to harness Psionic storms on an atomic level and equally harness the same amount to enhance physical strength and strong energy barriers.

And Reaper is right, the glassing feats were calculated to be in the Low 5-B department.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Hell, there's even a Low 5-B glassing feat for the protoss that's basically bog-standard purification sans the fact it comes from a ******* space station

A massive space station, with the caveat being that they need fleets to purify other planets rather than a single ship.

Also calm yourself dude.

And Reaper is right, the glassing feats were calculated to be in the Low 5-B department.

For a fleet of Void Ships, not a single one.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

A massive space station, with the caveat being that they need fleets to purify other planets rather than a single ship.

Also calm yourself dude.

For a fleet of Void Ships, not a single one.

There were 20 ships that did a 5-B feat, and dividing it made it Low 5-B per ship. And it was Carriers doing Purifier beams was where the glassing feat came from. Then again, been a while since I read AssaltWaffle's blog.

 

[DaReaperMan]

A massive space station, with the caveat being that they need fleets to purify other planets rather than a single ship.

See what DDM said

Also calm yourself dude.

Why does everyone think I'm pissed just cause I'm an aggressive debater like what-

For a fleet of Void Ships, not a single one.

IIRC their weapons are better then the Carrier weapons lol

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why does everyone think I'm pissed just cause I'm an aggressive debater like what-

Aggressive debating quickly goes down into controversy in my experience.

Then again, been a while since I read AssaltWaffle's blog.

Reading the blog it looks like we actually have a lot of issues. They assume Ganymede's crust is the same mass of Earth's and that the entire crust was ejected at those speeds when the animation doesn't show that.

The result is actually rather high.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Even with 20 Carriers dividing them all individually would still yield them powers like the High 6-A ranges. Void Rays are considered capital ship tier and use the power of standard psionics and the void itself to annihilate everything in their path. A single Void Ray with only 2 flux field projectors online has enough power to destroy entire groups of ultralisks. There's also Terran nukes. We reached High 6-B+ with one individually and hundreds of petatons for them at full barrage. Kerrigan's base managed to survive Warfield's nuclear barrage which are shown to be used also in the SC2 era of StarCraft.

These all pale in comparison to the simple fact that Amon is above all of them. His Xel'Naga psionics allow him to surpass every single one of these without a scratch. Karax tells us that none of the Golden Armada's weaponry can even damage him while he was powering up to complete his hybrid form. I believe psionics are a pretty easy UES power to believe in.

We actually better purification stuff as here's an entire planet. Nukes can also vaporize entire oceans and purification is deemed superior to that.

Fighting hybrids should mean something, they are the template for Amon's host body to the material realm in which he can use his psionics more. The heavy tier hybrids variants can seriously damage the heroes like Kerrigan too.

 

[Qawsedf234]

There's also Terran nukes.

Aren't those Apocalypse-class nukes? They aren't used in the current era anymore after this incident due to pushback according to the manual

I'm not sure if an Ultralisk is scaling to them. Though Kerrigan's base scaling is fine, assuming she scales to her base.

We actually better purification stuff as here's an entire planet. Nukes can also vaporize entire oceans and purification is deemed superior to that.

They ignite the atmosphere with the beams

He need not have worried. The Protoss were completely intent on the diseased planet beneath them. Hatchways opened up in the bottoms of the larger ships, and great beams of energy, so intense as to be colorless, lanced downward toward the surface. The aliens laid down a withering barrage against the planet beneath. Where the energy beams struck, they burned. The sky itself curdled as the beams pierced through the atmospheric envelope. Air itself was torn away from the planet by the force of the blows. And where the beams struck the surface, they erupted, boiling the ground where they struck, uprooting both the creep-infested lands and those that had not yet been infected. Deadly rainbow radiation, more brilliant than Mike had ever seen, spiraled out from the impact points, churning earth and water mercilessly, distorting the matter of the planet itself. Then other ships began firing thinner beams with surgical accuracy, adding to the barrage in places. The cities, Mike realized. They were targeting the cities and making sure that nothing could survive there. Any place of human settlement. Including, he knew, the Jacobs Installation itself. They had cut their timing very close indeed, he thought, and his stomach gave an uneasy lurch. One of the pulsing beams punched through the crust itself, and the ground erupted in a volcanic upwelling. Magma pushed to the surface, consuming everything that had been uprooted by the energy beams. Most of the world’s atmosphere was burning now, torn away from the orb in a veil that trailed it in orbit, and what was left spiraled in hurricanes and tornadoes, until destroyed by more beams. Now red volcanic glows covered the northern hemisphere of Mar Sara like welts. The remainder of the land heaved in a deadly rainbow. Nothing could survive the assault, human or otherwise.

Which is what the last image looks like.

Karax tells us that none of the Golden Armada's weaponry can even damage him while he was powering up to complete his hybrid form.

Amon being strong isn't a UES justification. Though if you can showcase Kerrigan or someone physically damaging him it would be an indication of it.

 

[Not_Icarus]

They pierce the surface and mantle the too.

-Liberty's Crusade

"One of the pulsing beams punched through the crust itself, and the ground erupted in a volcanic
upwelling. Magma pushed to the surface, consuming everything that had been uprooted by the energy
beams. Most of the world’s atmosphere was burning now, torn away from the orb in a veil that trailed it
in orbit, and what was left spiraled in hurricanes and tornadoes, until destroyed by more beams."

"The technician continued, “The orange spikes appear to be magma breaches through the planetary
mantle. They are located at the locations of the known settlements.” A pause. “Plus at least a dozen other
locations.”
Mike looked at the swirling, deadly rainbow on the screen. The sun was cresting the horizon ahead of
them, and the world looked no better in the sunlight. Only a few dark clouds, thin as crow feathers,
dragged across the sunlight side.
“In addition, eighty percent of the atmosphere has been blown off in the attack,” continued the
technician.
“Any orbital presence?” asked Duke, an armorplated monolith in their midst.
“Working,” said the tech. Finally came the response, “Negative. Nothing of ours. Nothing of unknown
origin either. There may be some fragments on a larger scan.”
“Widen the scan,” said Duke. “I want to know if there’s anything out here. Ours or theirs.”
“Working . . . Definite fragments. Likely ours. Would need a salvage team to confirm.”
“Why did they do this?” Mike asked, but no one answered him. Techs in lighter-weight combat suits
tapped displays with gauntleted hands, and the numerous heads on the screens all talked at once to
Colonel Duke.
Finally Mike came up with a question he thought they could answer. “What did this? Nukes?”
The word seemed to reak Duke from his steady stream of information. He looked at the reporter.
“Atomic delivery systems leave blackened glass and burning forests. Even Korhal had some surviving
pockets of clear terrain, for a while at least. Chau Sara has been burned down to the liquid core in
places. This is much more deadly than even Apocalypse bombs.”

"“This”—Duke pointed at the screen—“is the work of an alien race, the Protoss. From what I’m being
told, they warped in from nowhere, closer to the planet than we would ever attempt. Huge ships, and a
lot of them. Caught a few transports and scavenger ships and blew them out of the sky. Then they
unleashed whatever-it-was on the planet and sterilized it like a three-minute egg. Then they left again.
Mar Sara’s on the other side of the sun right now, and they’re in a panic that they might be next.”
“Protoss.” Mike shook his head slightly, digesting the data. Something was wrong there. He looked at
the tech’s display, showing the deep radar holes punching down to the planet’s magma.
“You have enough for your report, Mr. Liberty,” Duke said. “We will remain on station in the event of
other hostiles for the foreseeable future. You may mention in any report you file that we will be joined by
theJackson V and theHuey Long within days.”

Amon being strong is rooted in his vast psionic and void energies though. His energy levels are the very reason he's considered like a god in the series who can rip apart worlds with his bare hands. We had to force him to be depowered for our weapons to harm him. And even then he was far more powerful than anyone else and one shotted everything at such a weakened state. Kerrigan just has a much smaller pool of power compared to Amon. She reaches and surpass his level too when she turns into a Xel'Naga herself. Kerrigan's psionic energy that the keystoned siphoned from her was also key in reviving Amon from more than just a consciousness. Narud used the keystone that housed Kerrigan's Queen of Blades power to give him back a full body back in the void.

Also here's an Ultralisk resisting a Void Ray's beam and forcing it to power up to 2 flux field projectors because it wasn't strong enough. A hive forced it to do the same thing too. Void Ray going at the power of 3 flux field projectors destroyed an entire fleet of Zerg which included brood lords

They can be used again despite them being technically being banned now. People don't care when they're used against the Zerg. This comic takes place after SC1 and is closer to SC2 in time period.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Aren't those Apocalypse-class nukes? They aren't used in the current era anymore after this incident due to pushback according to the manual

The SC1 Manual regarding the banning of Apoc Nukes was only for the Confederates, Umojans, and Kel-Morians after the last two witnessed the devastation of Korhal.

After Mengsk established the Dominion, he reinstated the use of Apoc Nukes.

And he doesn't seem to care about the opinion of the Umojans since in HotS: Dominion forces attacked one of their research bases, and fired at their ships

 

[Not_Icarus]

On the side note. I'm still waiting for my friend to give me battlecruiser weight results. We made a discovery that the one time that blizzard decided to use two different models for multiple kinds of battlecruisers on the same screen has the ingame minotaur model at a larger size than the hyperion. He still hasn't made the calc yet due to him being busy with work and life. The only time a minotaur model being used in the same frame as the generic hyperion model is actually pretty consistent with the field manual and its ship sizes like the sc2 carrier in which both the carrier and battlecruiser are around 1 kilometer in sizes. He says that he'll make calcs for both models too to make things smoother so either or both yields can be used if one chooses to use a lower or higher value for a match up.

1. The 550 meter size statement from the bucephalus which was flying next to 2 minotaur class battlecruisers are later contradicted and retconned by the field manual's definitive capital ship sizes. Plus the 550 meter statement was never brought up again and the model used in the LotV background sections which uses the hyperion model and minotaur model better than Diamond Drone's bc model calc of 650 meter result as they took it from an ingame mission rather than the LotV background cutscene.
2. Xiaorobear's canonical content like his personal size chart and battlecruiser ship size opinion doesn't extend beyond the single most up-to-date chart and he himself has admitted his 550 minotaur class battlecruisers are now defunct in canon.
3. there are cinematics which support comparable minotaur~behemoth sizes which contradict the non-canon size chart for 550m minotaurs.

The results of the KE calc gathered from their weights would be a nice supporting feat for the SC heavy tiers. Probably gonna be something like around tier 6. My guesses are 6-C to High 6-C as a much smaller calc estimate got 7-A with much smaller sizes and speeds.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

We made a discovery that the one time that blizzard decided to use two different models for multiple kinds of battlecruisers on the same screen has the ingame minotaur model at a larger size than the hyperion.

In the original calc I did acknowledge that the Minotaur was "either smaller or equal in size". I used the "With Friends like these..." comparison in the calc because it was the best example of a Minotaur and Behemoth Battlecruiser being side-by-side. The Hyperion also has a bigger model in HOTS' final mission as well if I remember correctly.

The 550 meter size statement from the bucephalus which was flying next to 2 minotaur class battlecruisers are later contradicted and retconned by the field manual's definitive capital ship sizes. Plus the 550 meter statement was never brought up again and the model used in the LotV background sections which uses the hyperion model and minotaur model better than Diamond Drone's bc model calc of 650 meter result as they took it from an ingame mission rather than the LotV background cutscene.

The problem with using models used for Background Cutscenes is that often times they like to change sizes so that the models better fit the shot. I recall the Tal'Darim Mothership and Destroyers in Nova Covert Ops being used as an example long time ago, but can't seem to find it anymore. There's also the Leviathan and Spear of Adun, which I'm pretty appear alongside Battlecruisers in an Epilouge cutscene (if not there's still HOTS with the Leviathan and Hyperion)

The In-Game models give far more consistent depictions of Battlecruiser sizes, including a statement that implies Battlecruiser classes do vary in size by large amounts (Thanks Gorgon very cool)

Xiaorobear's canonical content like his personal size chart and battlecruiser ship size opinion doesn't extend beyond the single most up-to-date chart and he himself has admitted his 550 minotaur class battlecruisers are now defunct in canon.

As far as I am aware, no one else has ever used or acknowledged the personal chart except for you. Though it may be posssible that I've missed something where someone has used something from it in this thread. Even then there are more outlandish things to use for Battlecruiser sizes than something in the 500m-1000m range, so it isn't really the biggest of deals.

 

[Not_Icarus]

The Legendary NCO final mission Hyperion that's much wider and almost as long as the gorgons in the mission.

Both in-game and cutscenes get inconsistent but I'll take the LotV Korhal cutscene battlecruisers for the easiest approximations with the manual. In-game cutscenes have more varied sizes for the battlecruisers. The HotS early cinematics are pretty nice for showing us that the Hyperion was pretty much the same size as the rest of the ships around it.

 

[VehementZero97]

Zerg Swarm Strength, Speed, Durability and Endurance
click here

 

[DaReaperMan]

Zerg Swarm Strength, Speed, Durability and Endurance
click here

I saw health points be mentioned, this entire blog is unusable methinks.