StarCraft Major Revisions and Fixes (CRT)

[DaReaperMan]

I'm curious who keeps stonewalling

Look at literally any major revision for Warcraft.

 

[Hellbeast]

O.....

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Pretty much any MMORPG is pandemonium to index.

 

[Hellbeast]

Pretty much any MMORPG is pandemonium to index.

SWTOR too
Anyone back to the topic

 

[Not_Icarus]

Well the abilities are done at least for the most part for what we can currently think of. Only thing left to deal with is the scaling lol

 

[Not_Icarus]

I do dream of someone making a Zerg Physiology page someday. Idk how to make one

 

[DaReaperMan]

I do dream of someone making a Zerg Physiology page someday. Idk how to make one

Servant Physiology

Servants are spirits summoned by the Holy Grail to compete under Masters in the Holy Grail War. Typically, they are Heroic Spirits, beings of a higher existence given to them by the people's ideals of them, but can also be Divine Spirits, Phantoms, Wraiths, and even normal humans, in extreme...

vsbattles.fandom.com

You should probably do something simple like this, go into source editor(but don't actually edit anything of course) and figure out the coding you want and whatnot

 

[Not_Icarus]

I'll think about it.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Can't wait for Tychus Findlay Physiology

 

[DaReaperMan]

Can't wait for Tychus Findlay Physiology

The wiki couldn't take that kind of raw sexual energy

 

[Not_Icarus]

The Koprulu Sector civillians wouldn't be able to handle him as a broadcaster too.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Do you guys think High 8-C or 8-B is better for Tier 8 SC? Given that Nydus Worms are canonically killable by basic infantry. There's more High 8-C calcs but scaling there is pretty funky with the High Templar and Banelings. Basic units are regularly sent out to demolish buildings and such with even a direct statement about that with the Marauder in the Field Manual artbook. There's been mentions of incendiary rounds used by Marines as well to burn down buildings in Liberty's Crusade. 8-B could be used to down scale from the Nydus Worms so High 8-C gets more legit and consistent I'm thinking. Diamond Drone also gave us some new 8-B calcs like Raynor's breaching charge. His High Templar calcs also reached 8-B so there's that.

I'm slowly starting to like 8-B more given the amount of High 8-C feats and canonical Nydus Worm killings.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

Probably final post about 8-C/High 8-C Infantry unless something major happens.

Tier 8 StarCraft is consistent. Even Teenage Nova who is likely below a High Templar at this point in her life has demolished a large section of the upper echelons of the Terra skyscraper in the Ghost Nova scaling. Tier 9 base units are more consistent to you since you use game calcs and scaling but I wanna scale them to their lore more imo. Marines are capable of harming Nova and Zerglings are able to harm Marines. The scaling works.

1. The Picture you provided (though didn't work, thankfully I know where it was) doesn't look exactly 8-C or higher, though it probably due to the picture being cropped. If you find an uncropped picture (or a better picture from the same feat), We'll see if it's 8-C or not.
2. The Blast was telekinetic and telepathic, how would it scale to Nova physically?
3. I know Marines could knock out Nova in this cinematic, however that was when Nova was distracted knocking out another Marine and in Mission 1 (which canonically happens the cinematic, as it was a flashback) Nova could snap necks of troopers (which are basically marines reskins), Ghosts and Marauders. Also you're suggesting scaling a Marine to a Hero, which can be considered a outlier.
From the outlier page:

However, the regular fodder enemies have very poor feats and combat records compared to the main characters, so scaling the former to the latter should not be an accepted practice.

Also your stance on game calcs is kinda inconsistant. You only complain about it being "game calcs" in the above message, but it's fine whenether you mention my calcs in a way that "supports" you (Like when you mentioned the Mothership "Planet Cracker" calc as a replacement for the Leviathan feat)

You say that scaling a Zealot to tier 9 is reasonable but it has a direct High 8-C feat by tanking a blast with shields (But yeah I know he did die there after taking another blast himself when he was unprotected making the scaling more confusing but it nevertheless should downscale from it. It wasn't just a normal blast too, it was acid that got unto him as well which I believe are bigger reasons for their deaths as Zerg acid is notably strong and deadly that for the higher ends they corrode things like Battlecruisers)

It broke the shield, it can't be a "direct High 8-C feat". That would just place the Zealot somewhere below High 8-C (which is 9-A or 8-C)
Also the Banelings main attack IS the acid. It isn't some blast sprinkled with some acidic flavor
Speaking of Banelings, I looked back at that "Acid Grenade" feat from before again. A tiny Blister comparable to a grenade (1 Megajoule or Wall level) managed to knock out a Marine in full armor and cause serious damage. That is a serious Anti-Feat that was kinda ignored because everyone just kinda focused on the calc.

3 Zealots tanking several Marines, a Goliath for seconds straight before dying, and 6 Firebats

But they still died? Also the only confirmed kills 3 Marines and a Firebat. 3 Marines was before the Goliath and Firebats. 1 Firebat was after the Goliath and Firebats.

There's a Zealot out there who 1v1'd an SC2 Ultralisk and won. While not quantifiable, it still shows how powerful, fast and skilled they are.

Scan

That Zealot seems to be avoiding the Ultralisk attacks and then getting a single hit in a specific spot. Even if this was quantifiable (like you admitted, it isn't) this would be a massive outlier, due to the Ultralisk only being matched by an Archon, a entity of pure protoss psionic energy, who still struggled and was overpowered by the Ultralisk.

Marauders are also noted as building busters in the field manual art book, and they're stronger than Marines but nevertheless in the same tier. You even placed Firebats and Marauders at 8-C levels with your calcs which essentially reaffirms it.

• In the Firebat calc, the final result was at most 9-A+ due to needing multiple hits to burn the Zerglings (it was a gameplay feat, gameplay feats are usually divided by the number of hits it takes to achieve a certain destruction)
• In the Marauder calc, The Fragmentation result was 9-A while the violent Fragmentation result is 8-C. However, the 8-C result was a low 8-C result (not even close to reaching 8-C+), contradicted by the Impalers (in the same mission this feat was performed) hitting them with a 150 Metric Ton Tentacle going at Mach 0.25 (It's 9-A+) and the fact that it doesn't really qualify for violent fragmentation in the first place (It doesn't crumble into incredible small pieces, it just stays as the big rocks).
• Also with Firebats being minimum 9-A+, this means Zerglings can't be above them, as they are involved in the feat. This would include everyone that are seen comparable to Zerglings like Zealots and Marines (A single Zergling could easily harm a UED Marine here) and possibly some slightly higher ones like Hydralisks (which can kill Marines quite easily in less than a second)

Also 9-A+ is still very close to 8-C and would still be qualify for "Building Buster" or being able to decimate Structures.

I brought up Final Fantasy because it was the closest example I could think of in my head at the time for power scaling. Since just because someone is at High 6-A for example doesn't mean they can destroy continents, they only get it by being a good match/threat to those who can.

But it isn't at all similar to the High Templar thing at all. Here Character A is capable of fighting Character B who could destroy Object C. But the HT/Zergling thing is: Character A can kill Character B who scales to Character C who kills 4 Character A's.

Also High Templar usually focus their Psionics into their attacks, as mentioned in the Manual. They aren't usually High 8-C in durability (with shields, physically they are weaker).

Goliath AP

• This is supposed to be supporting evidence for the "Zealot surviving Goliaths" thing, right? I already stated what I think of that.
• Vultures should be comparable Hellions, which is effective against Marines enough that the mystery Marine still warns you to stay out of the Vehicles way. Vulture are also capable of killing Marines (way higher with Spider Mines) and are stated to be effective against Infantry and lightly armored targets.
• Siege Tanks are effective against Marines, has technology being developed to reduce friendly fire damage (from the same Upgrade that uses Marauders in the demonstration video, who should be more durable than the Marine. It also still warns to stay out of the blast zone, even with a 75% damage reduction against allies)
• Hellhounds are Guild War Aircraft (that war that happend before the events of SC1) that equal to Avengers (not the SC2 one) which were replaced by Wraiths (that are better at Anti-Air than Anti-Ground, which is apparently also canonical and not just gameplay lol, they are also just used for parades instead of fighting) which are then replaced by Vikings that die to a majority civilians with likely handmade explosives and a small group of Marines (and Raynor) in Mission 1 of Wings of Liberty
• The Person also says "not just Infantry" which means it likely kills those equal to Marines and Marauders.

So 2 example units are ones that kill Marines (that were established to kill Zealots) and with only one that sorta works with your scaling (until the Infantry part).

A Ghost rifle easily penetrating the armored cockpit of a Goliath
A Marine killing a Goliath via action man skills

Would be an Outlier for the Marines, given what the Goliaths scale to mentioned above. Ghosts might scale.

Marines are also capable of killing Overlords in canonical scale which are large enough to carry SC2 era Ultralisks by themselves supposedly.

First part is definitely true, but the second part might be just gameplay? Was an Overlord ever seen carrying an Ultralisk in canon? (like a cutscene, book or comic?)
Ultralisks are actually bigger than Overlords, according to this chart (Ultra's are around 23m while OV's are around 12-18m), so I'm leaning towards likely not canon for now. (Which means Overlords are stuck at being atleast 0.1 Tons of TNT)

Checked out his calcs again and he gave Overlords Class M lifting strength so we may possibly use that for physical lifting strength too.

That's just the Weight of the Overlord (though it might be lower, cause I assumed the flesh part wasn't hollow), it would have at most the strength of lifting an Ultralisk (or lower if that doesn't happen in canon, probably "At least Superhuman" at true minimum?)

I'm slowly starting to like 8-B more given the canonical Nydus Worm killings (by basic infantry).

Don't know about the canonical part, but Nydus Worms are actually said to not be that durable, despite their size. It also means that size might be used to judge a unit's strength, though probably as a last resort (Lore comes first, size second and gameplay as support?)

Also i would like to mention that all these calcs would probably need to be evaluated before being used (including my calcs, I mentioned only ones that I put on the evaluation thread).
This also proofs that there likely exists a "Infantry Tier" and a "Vehicle/Large Creature Tier", especially with the consistent murder of Zerglings and Marines.

I'm fine with Infantry varying from the weakest being "Wall, likely Small Building" or "Small Building" to the strongest (not including High Templar or the similar) being "Small Building+, possibly Building" or "Small Building+, likely Building". How does that sound?

 

[Not_Icarus]

That Zealot mindhax feat is from The Dark Templar Saga, idk the page and which book from the saga it is but it is legit given the Protoss are a psionic race by design. I got it from feat hunting in places like Spaces Battles for which I'll try to show you the guy quoting the dialogue tomorrow if you want and are asking as it's pretty late for me.

The Nova building blast pic is really just that big. It's a short frame combined with present day Nova from Shadow Wars or Ghost Academy Comics. Basically a callback to the Ghost Nova novel. There's no way to actually know how it visually looks like in full.

We scale characters with their psionic prowess in for SC here, it's how Amon and Kerrigan get to be High 6-A. And it's an early feat for her which is likely 8-C or so given that the feat killed hundreds of people.

Nova is physically Marine and Zealot tier. It's her higher end psionics that give her the at least High 6-C feats like blasting away entire Hive Clusters. Her lower end psionics are fine for physical scaling.

No way in hell are Zealots physically inferior to Firebats, they've ran Supersonic speeds and have acrobatics good enough to dodge Ultralisk blades. A Zealot even killed 1 of the Firebats that was roasting him.

Because Nydus Worms despite being labeled as "not that durable" are calcd to be 8-B due to the sheer amount of rocks they can dig through with their size and teeth. Matt informs us of Nydus Worms during the first refugee mission for Dr Hanson and we only had Marines, Firebats, Marauders, and Medics at best for most playthroughs. 1 Baneling also doesn't kill them and they're harmed by all the units in the game. I believe the "not that durable" line from the manual means that infantry genuinely harm it. Not that it's necessarily a tier 9 structure or so.

I just choose what I think are valid enough from your calcs in my perspective and consistency for the current ratings. You placed the Impaler at 9-A even though it's clearly a heavy anti-armor siege unit that killed Thors, Bunkers, Siege Tanks, and even a Planetary Fortress.

If a Zealot at peak is capable of killing an Ultralisk, it surely is capable of killing Nydus Worms. The Archon couldn't win because it tried to fight it head on. The Zealot was a much smaller target and has better agility than an Archon.

There's no anti vehicle infantry outside of Marauders. Marines still scale to them as Marauders are known for dying in the field to their enemies and even at times when the suit isn't penetrated. It's why kinetic foam exists. Roaches should be in a similar tier and in the Roach Short Story, it confirms to us that a Marine can beat it 1v1, just very difficult and rare.

I don't believe Ghost rifles penetrating Goliaths are an outlier, according to the field manual it's a 25mm gun. The Goliath carries twin 30mm gun.

Marauders are retrofitted Firebats that have slightly worse armor. And going by your logic on the field manual pros and cons of a unit there. Marines are also noted to be effective against Marauders and Immortals. Firebats lose to Marines when given the range advantage of course.

They still use the same energy source for all their powers. And again as I said. A Zealot can tank 1 Baneling hit before dying to another one if left exposed. It's a High 8-C feat because it's the most definitive shield break limit we have for the Zealots. There's no other quantifiable feat out there that is as clear and quick as that one Baneling blast. Massfire doesn't count as the wiki doesn't do chip damage.

There are no known ways for Ultralisks to get from air to ground outside of drop pods. So I believe they can lift them despite being a bit smaller than them in the official unit scale from XiaoRobear.

Zerglings have a Carapace upgrade in Hots that lets them fight Firebats so no. Zerglings can kill Firebats.

It doesn't matter that those 3 Zealots died. The point of that section in the story was to show just how dangerous and powerful even small numbers of Protoss are to Terrans. They still tanked a lot of machine gun fire and even lasted awhile against Goliath fire which is definitely in the tier 8 section.

If a Goliath can die to a Marine, this should mean they have the AP to kill Vikings themselves as even the field manual itself describes that Marines help Banshees kill air units. As they're mostly anti-ground based aircraft. Mutalisk and Vikings should have similar durability tiers due to being common air units to both factions. Goliaths should be in a relative tier to Dragoons too. Marines can also kill them as Zerglings can do too.

So I'm sorry. But I just really don't agree with you on tier 9 StarCraft. Given the amount of feats and portrayals they have, low ends aside. I really do believe that Nydus Worm scaling is the way to go. Zealots are pretty much the Space Marines of SC given the anime bullshit the writers keep giving them.

 

[Not_Icarus]

More feats and abilities.

Nova saves Tosh from death
Ghosts can easily 1 shot Overlords with good aim
Reaper blows up Medivac
A lower level and less trained psionic was able to access the memories of a Reaper
A weaker mind blast either killing/knocking people out
Nova easily disarming and crushing weapons with her bare hands
Nova's telepathy level

Kerrigan may potentially get a Genius intellect upgrade for her QoB key as she experimented and created Izsha. She still retains at least some biological manipulation mastery at HotS as she made the Broodmother Larva that infected a Protoss woman and even impressed Abathur with it. With her Xel'Naga form, this is taken to the next level. The Adostras can terraform entire planets better than both Terran and Protoss tech combined. Not even Zerg can absorb or understand their essence.

"After the Brood War, the Queen of Blades turned to experimentation to advance the Swarm. Just as she was transformed by the Overmind's ministrations, so too did the Queen's early attempts at crafting new strains mirror Sarah Kerrigan's "rebirth." The being that would be called "Izsha" was one of the Queen's truly unique developments, marrying traits like episodic memory to the collective consciousness of the Swarm. However, as her functions were more suited to hive organization than warfare, Izsha remained largely unknown to the enemies of the zerg.[4]

Kerrigan used her to store her thoughts and plans.[5] As she sensed a looming threat to the zerg, she took action to preserve her memories for the Swarm's future.[4]"

Abathur and Kerrigan worked on the Roach together. Kerrigan started the base designs and Abathur perfected it to the SC2 version we see today.

"On Garrxax (2501), Sarah Kerrigan psionically urged her swarm to destroy the terran habitation domes in order to gain the biomass within. However, zerglings had run into zantar slugs, which caused them high levels of pain. Kerrigan shifted her attention to a dead human, who had slugs eating away at his suit. Then, the slugs the zergling had accidentally killed regenerated, causing Kerrigan to see a use for them. Lee took one of the modified mohicans to look around, when she found all of the other habitation spheres had fallen.

Her strategic and tactical prowess is also one of the best in the series so that's a good starting base for her intellect.

 

[Diamond_Drone]

That Zealot mindhax feat is from The Dark Templar Saga, idk the page and which book from the saga it is but it is legit given the Protoss are a psionic race by design. I got it from feat hunting in places like Spaces Battles for which I'll try to show you the guy quoting the tomorrow as it's pretty late for me.

I didn't mention or complain about it. You're talking about it to someone else, right?

The Nova building blast pic is really just that big. It's a short frame combined with present day Nova from Shadow Wars. Basically a callback to the Ghost Nova novel. There's no way to actually know how it visually looks like in full.

I already said how the image looks not like an 8-C or above feat. Also I doubt it's "just that big", cause the text on top left on the pic suggest there is more, just cut off (on the wiki at least)
Are you saying the same building is in the Shadow Wars comics? If so, which one cause there are like 12 parts and solving this "feat" quicker would be helpful. While writing this you just posted a better picture of the same feat, thanks. It still looks room sized and the most impressive thing could just be the Crater Nova is standing on (likely 9-A, Nova was younger and would not be as tall, thus reducing the size slightly or massively)

We scale characters with their psionic prowess in for SC here, it's how Amon and Kerrigan get to be High 6-A. And it's an early feat for her which is likely 8-C or so given that the feat killed hundreds of people.

Kerrigan scales to physicals because, after she performed the storm feat, she fought 3 Primal Leaders with one of them being mostly physical and summoning Zerglings (High 6-A Zerglings when?). She has an actual reason for her psionics to scale to her physicals, Nova has none.
And Amon's Hybrid Body is High 6-A because he was threatening and strong enough that Artanis considered it necessary to use every Starship in his command to blast him down, after he was weakened by destroying his crystals (not the first time Artanis and pals had to fight rocks). The Small Planet rating for Amon (the same rating of the Starships attack) was rejected at some point (because the Starships attacks killed him, if i remember correctly, also this sounds familiar), so he just scales above the heroes now.

Nova is physically Marine and Zealot tier. It's her higher end psionics that give her the at least High 6-C feats like blasting away entire Hive Clusters. Her lower end psionics are fine for physical scaling.

And why? It's still psionics, the only reason for them to "scale" is because you said so. Nova can physically snap Marauder necks, which I'll talk about in a moment.

No way in hell are Zealots physically inferior to Firebats, they've ran at Supersonic feats or have acrobatics good enough to dodge Ultralisk blades. A Zealot even killed 1 of the Firebats that was roasting him.

"they've ran at Supersonic feats or have acrobatics good enough to dodge Ultralisk blades" is just speed, doesn't necessarily mean they are superior to Firebats (also that Supersonic calc isn't evaluated by a calc member).
Was it a SC1-era or SC2-era Firebat? SC1-era was more closely related to the Marine and are much more vulnerable (durability wise, SC1 Marines would likely still scale to Overlords like SC2 Marines). Given that Goliaths and Firebats are involved, I'm leaning SC1-era Firabats.

Because Nydus Worms despite being labeled as "not that durable" are calcd to be 8-B due to the sheer amount of rocks they can dig through. Matt informs us of Nydus Worms during the first refugee mission for Dr Hanson and we only had Marines, Firebats, Marauders, and Medics at best.

That's just AP, not durability.
Even if it was equal in durability to it's AP, you're implying to scale Marines, Firebats and Medics to a Nydus Worm big enough to spew thousands of Zerglings and Hydras at a moments notice (From the Shakuras Cinematic, where it takes Hydralisks multiple hits to break Artanis's armor, further evidence for the "Shields are just hitpoints") and who's eruption can knock 3 Marines off their feat? (It also appears to be smaller, which is likely important as the average Nydus's we see in SC2 are notably not durable for their size)
Also an Nydus emerging causes a Siege Tank to be knocked slightly aside, which should also be superior to Marines as discussed prior.

If a Zealot at peak is capable of killing an Ultralisk, it surely is capable of killing Nydus Worms. The Archon couldn't win because it tried to fight it head on. The Zealot was a much smaller target and has better agility than an Archon.

The Zealot is a generic unit, so consistent feats are much more important that one-time feats where a Unit defeats a Unit of a notably higher tier (Like the Zealot being able to kill an Ultralisk, which kills Marines casually by stomping on them, when Marines are more or less equal to Zealots...)
And if the Zealot failed to be agile, it would die to the obviously stronger Creature that kills enemies Zealots struggle with and would do the same to the Zealot effortlessly. The Zealot also struck a specific spot to end a fight more quickly (likely a less armored spot, the only way an experience dominion Marine sees as a chance to even remotely fight such a beast)

Marauders are retrofitted Firebats that have slightly worse armor. And going by your logic on the field manual pros and cons of a unit there. Marines are also noted to be effective against Marauders and Immortals. Firebats lose to Marines when given the range advantage of course.

Marauders are equal to SC2-era Firebats in hitpoints, they have the exact same armor and the description for kinetic foam reads:

Marauder armor can survive crushing impacts, but the same cannot always be said for the soldier inside.

Kinetic Foam was made to protect the Marauder Operator on the inside, not outside which is doing just fine.
Marauders are listed as being effective against Roaches, which are effective against Zealots and Zerglings. It's also said veteran marines admire the roach for it's durability. Also those pages (where I did acknowledge the effectiveness list) had addition information aside from "effective against this unit", they also had written notes from a mystery Dominion Marine who seems rather experienced and knowledgeable on the ones he writes about (he was willing to strike out an advice against an Hydralisk when he figured out he was wrong, either from his attempts or his friends)
SC1-era Firebats or SC2-era Firebats? Marine defeating a SC1-Firebat would not be that impressive, but consistent as they have rather similar armor to those of the Marine.
Also here's art of a Marauder igniting a Zergling in one-shot with a Marine assistance, which is also the Firebat art but altered (wow, it's like they are equals)

There's no anti vehicle infantry outside of Marauders. Marines still scale to them as Marauders are known for dying in the field to their enemies and even at times when the suit isn't penetrated. It's why kinetic foam exists. Roaches should be in a similar tier and in the Roach Short Story, it confirms to us that a Marine can beat it 1v1, just very difficult and rare.

If it's with difficulty, then that means the Marine isn't on the same level as a Roach. Which is consistent cause Marines are getting ready for evac even before a Roach melts their bunkers AND the veteran Marines respect AND the Stalker/Marauder introduction in "Smash and Grab", where Swann gives Raynor the Marauders to deal with approaching Stalkers when the Player would have Marines at most at that time.

I just choose what I think are valid enough from your calcs in my perspective and consistency for the current ratings. You placed the Impaler at 9-A even though it's clearly a heavy anti-armor siege unit that killed Thors, Bunkers, Siege Tanks, and even a Planetary Fortress

We are both not calc members, if they decide the 9-A works, it works.
Bunkers are designed to fit and protect Marines, so not that impressive.
What is the Siege Tanks durability? Siege Tanks are above Marauders and the Impalers solo-ed Marauders that just did a lower 9-A feat with a higher 9-A feat. They also have a line and still take more hits from the attack (enough to react to an Impaler impaling them)
There aren't any lines from the Thor or about the Thor in the mission and in the Zergling evo mission the Zerglings won against the Thor (which is acknowledged) due to their numbers advantange, not a physical advantage. Don't make an argument for Thor/Zergling scaling.
The Planetary Fortress is just a Command Center, which is bigger than several Supply Depots that are 1 Storey Tall. However, it likely being massively hollow means there is way less volume of Steel to fragment and the amount of hits it takes would bring down the feat immensely.

It doesn't matter that those 3 Zealots died. The point of that section in the story was to show just how dangerous and powerful even small numbers of Protoss are to Terrans. They still tanked a lot of machine gun fire and even lasted awhile against Goliath fire which is definitely in the tier 8 section.

You don't scale to something that kills you. I also gave you multiple examples of the things Goliath scale to, all which kills Marines, that can harm and possibly kill Zealots.
This would also be an outlier, because of the many statements from various sources (manual, story progression, etc.) that somewhere in the Marauder/Stalker/Roach line and above, Marines already lose the ability to keep up more and more.
Yet you wanna scale Zealots to the strongest thing you have found, then I continue to provide evidence for it likely being an outlier and then you still cotinue to believe them being valid.

I don't believe Ghost rifles penetrating Goliaths are an outlier, according to the field manual it's a 25mm gun. The Goliath carries twin 30mm gun.

I never said the Ghost scaling was an outlier, I said the Marine scaling was an outlier.

Zerglings have a Carapace upgrade in Hots that lets them fight Firebats so no. Zerglings can kill Firebats.

The Carapace upgrade is just a durability, "(Firebat AP) with Hardened Carapace" would be fine. They would not scale in AP due to still being unable to kill Firebats in the WOL Upgrades, where they are constantly hit by Zerglings, but still survive, even on the range upgrade that doesn't effect damage or durability.

They still use the same energy source for all their powers. And again as I said. A Zealot can tank 1 Baneling hit before dying to another one if left exposed.

The shield broke, it could not be the same tier as the Baneling.
If you found a small stick from a tree and broke it with your stomp that is Small Building (don't question it, it's an example), but consistently they can take stomps that are Street, it requires Wall level amount of energy to completely pulverize the stick and it's comparable to rather tiny critters that are Street, does that mean we should scale it to an attack that was way more than necessary to destroy it?
No because the attack destroyed it. It has to be below that tier, because an attack from a tier you're trying to scale them to easily breaks them.

If a Goliath can die to a Marine,

Given what they killed and scale to, they won't be killed by a Marine.

this should mean they have the AP to kill Vikings themselves as even the field manual itself describes that Marines help Banshees kill air units. As they're most anti-ground based aircraft.

It's an unclear statement with the only unit acknowledged to be killed by Marines are Overlords. But given that how quickly some Aircraft reach Capital Ship tier, it would be an outlier to scale Marines to Battlecruisers or even Void Rays (that can kill Ultralisks, ones that kill Marines)
Also while I did mention Vikings, I don't believe them to be equal to Marines. In their debut mission they can fight a Special Mothership and Broodlords, but more consistently they should be equal to Goliaths.

There are no known ways for Ultralisks to get from air to ground outside of drop pods. So I believe they can lift them despite being a bit smaller than them in the official unit scale from XiaoRobear.

That's your believes, not canon. They would only get a "possibly Class K" then a definitive "Class K".

I really do believe that Nydus Worm scaling is the way to go.

ones that are "not durable for their size" and would be "at most (Marine tier)" if they had a profile. Tell me why Nydus's would be equal in durability as their AP, when they are infamously less durable for it's size.
The worm is 6m in diameter, Zerg of that size are Ravagers (that are evolved roaches, that already worry and impress Marines with durability that have a direct 9-A feat), Lurker (which kills several Zerglings and is weaker in single-target damage to the Impaler, who has a 9-A+ feat) and Swarm Host (Doesn't have direct feats, but should be comparable in durability to units in the 2nd part of the evo mission, which are Hellbats and Marauders I think?) and it's notably weaker than them, despite the similar size. Terran of that size are SC1-era Siege Tanks, Goliaths and Crucio Tanks and it's notably weaker. Immortals and Archons are of similar size, yet Archons demolish Zerglings while Immortals vary from Infantry to Hybrid tier, Nydus's are notably weaker and dies to units the Zerglings are equal to (like Marines).
Via size, Nydus's are weaker to units that have 9-A+ feats to those that kill Units the Nydus can't deal with after emerging.

Your scaling has been rather questionable. You try to scale Zealots, Marines and Zerglings to units that consistently kill them over and over again. Then you try to scale them to a Unit that has no durability feats aside of being easy to kill by Marines and other Infantry.
You didn't like gameplay scaling, yet your scaling is more similar to it. You don't like Game calcs when they don't support your scaling, which is basically all of my calcs.

 

[Not_Icarus]

I misread you for the first quote so sorry about that one.

Shadow Wars just uses the same building, and we still don't how the big the blast is.

Amon with the Low 5-B stats is only him if he ever completed his energy absorption/with Void Shards, and even that's a minimum as it scales from the Purifier station Endion feat since nothing is known to be capable of harming him if he ever reaches full power.

Zealots are lower tier psionics and use their psionics to amplify themselves physically, so I believe Nova should be able to do the same but not to a ludicrous amount like High 6-C and such since the scaling there is too weird even for me. Nova still also has that statue with the weight of a siege tank feat too. Although idk how to rate a class 100 telekinesis feat. She's also physically capable of crushing guns with her bare hands and no normal human does that. "The suit helps ghosts channel their psionic energy.[1]"

Firebats are the heaviest known infantry unit for the Terrans. Marauders are slightly below them because of the existence of the external armor as Juggernaut Plating. But I can potentially see the same argument with the internal armor upgrade Kinetic Foam I suppose.

Zerglings not scaling to Thors is pretty legit. Since they canonically have anti air guns that pierce through capital ship armor.

It was an SC1 era Firebat. The novel was a SC1 era novel (also the worst one funny enough lol)

I don't think the Zealot did hit a "weak spot." He likely just destroyed the brain with his dura neg as the only known weakspot are under the legs and eyes.

I doubt that's a Nydus Worm tbh, it looks way more like a Hydra. Even if it was it could be an art style thing. They look way bigger normally and there's no vision of it later on in the comic issue as the only Zerg we see later are the Zerglings that dug their way up. And what does that have to prove anyways? The Siege Tank was just pushed away from the Nydus Worm, it wasn't directly hit. There was never even any sight of a Nydus Worm in the comic. Only Zerglings and Hydras. They both caught up to the Terrans later in the comic.

Marines aren't on the same level as roaches but they are close enough to harm them to point of killing them. Roaches regenerate faster than the damage from Gauss Rifles.

That's a fair assessment. The Thors never had any lines in the Impaler mission which does make it more ambiguous. Although I don't believe that Planetary Fortresses are that weak. Even civilian grade structures can have some nuke resistances to them (Nova blew up the same building and it's noted to be only usually possible with nuclear weapons btw so there's that). All the main worker facility buildings should scale together too. There's a canon line about Hatcheries and Hives canonically surviving nukes in HotS. So they definitely can scale to something like Siege Tanks which at peak pierced BC shielding and armor and also an SC1 era Siege Tank killing a Collosus by itself.

I don't believe it's an outlier because Zerglings have regularly killed Immortals and Dragoons and Goliaths should have durability of similar levels due to being "early tier" mechs.

Even if you don't agree it's High 8-C it should downscale from it to 8-C levels because of how the shielding still protected him from the incoming acid from the acid blast.

Fair, they only killed it via a 3v1 in the tech demo.

I never said Marines were Void Ray tier. They're a whole different beast that's pretty much capital ship tier given their feats of singlehandedly taking out a Zerg hive cluster by itself. Terran rockets are just very strong. Even the Banshee's rockets are deemed heavy tier for punching through even the strongest Terran armor known to man (at least for its time because gorgons and the xanthos exists). Vikings and Goliaths should have rockets of similar scale. Mutalisks canonically corrodes BC armor and Command Centers. So there is proper evidence for them being capable of damaging the heavy tier units with their rockets. Their durability however does not scale as they're canonically killed by far lower things like Marines and Zerglings. I believe they have high tier ap but with bottom tier durability. Protecting Banshees from aircraft should definitely more than just Overlords.

Do you mean Possibly Class K, then definitive Class M? I don't really understand you using the same tier there. I scaled them to units that easily kill them but in turn also kill them in multiple instances of canon. Like Goliaths, Vikings, Dragoons, and Immortals dying to tier 1 units. I'm sorry for the questionable scaling since this is my first CRT and StarCraft is a pretty inconsistent franchise.I believe that 8-B really is the durability of Nydus Worms given Marines and Zealots are still capable of killing early tier vehicles which are definitely at tier 8. They're not that durable ingame and lore too. Pretty sure that Nyduses at least have durability more in common with early tier vehicles rather than something like Zerglings and Marines due to their sheer size despite being labeled as "not that durable." If even the field manual agrees with Marines killing Immortals are legit, then so are them killing Vikings. Zerglings are also listed effective against Marauders and Stalkers.

In the Dark still has that line of heavier gateway/robotics bay units like Stalkers and or at least Immortal/Dragoons are capable of surviving Baneling blasts (Immortals/Dragoons pretty much have no dodging capabilities due to their size). The narrow area they were in just made sure they couldn't escape the blasts. It likely wasn't just 1 Baneling per Protoss that hit each one of them. The narrow corridor they were in also made them be crushed by big rocks alongside the acid blasts. The artbook even confirms (it also releases after Acid Burns was released) them ineffective against heavier armored infantry. Baneling pros and cons

Goliath and Viking machine guns likely shouldn't scale to their rocket AP btw. They're consistently used against light/medium targets and not something like Thors and Battlecruisers.

While it's true that you shouldn't normally scale someone to something that kills it, Zealots still the have durability to hold out for awhile. Marines get ripped apart by them much easier. And there's no instances of Marines ever piercing Zealot shielding alone. There's only that one time as far as I know that a Marine actually hurt a Zealot by himself. And that's when a Zealot was trying to be friendly with him. Multiple marines are always required to even significantly damage a Zealot's shield in canon. I don't believe in the hit points argument since the wiki is against that, it's moreso the Gauss Rifles are in a tier close enough to damage it. Artanis getting his shield broken by Hydralisks is a total outlier.

Also those weren't true Purification blasts. As Artanis and the group clearly stated they won't use full purification because they want to keep Aiur intact. They used more conventional orbital bombardment that clearly harms High 6-A heroes. A single Carrier full power purification has better visual area damage than that bombardment.

 

[Not_Icarus]

Hydralisk from the same comic series btw

chomp

So I really doubt it was a Nydus Worm. Given there wasn't any at least in later parts of the series. Likely just a minor mistake from the wiki mods.