Springtrap vs. Gatherer (Amnesia)

[Dargoo_Faust]

Was surprised to not see any Amnesia profiles on the wiki, so I've added one for the Gatherers. Let's see if I've found the right opponent for them.

Speed's equalized. If needed for Clarification, Springtrap's fighting a Grunt.

Springtrap (Five Nights at Freddy's) - 3 (Jack, LSirLancelot, Holy)

Gatherer - 2 (Crimson, Bambu)

 

[Jackythejack]

I've gotta give this to Springtrap. While they are evenly match, and it's a close fight, Springtrap comes it on top with the fact that he can probably just throw things at the Grunt to stun him before coming in to attack. Rinse and repeat. The hallucinations he caused could also effect the Grunt and leave him open to attack. Madness manipulation probably wouldn't do much to the guy either, so...

my vote is for springtrap.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

The Grunt has resistance to madness manip and Immortaility (1, 2 and 7), remember. While Springtrap would be a better fighter, how is he getting past the Immortaility?

 

[Jackythejack]

Does he have to die? That was never stated. He could just incapacitate the guy by bashing his head in with some objects in his environment?

If the winner is decided by death I don't think he can get past it, but at the same time I don't know if the Grunt can kill Springtrap just because he's a better fighter in general. Springtrap also has limitless stamina according to his profile. The Grunt is limited.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Winner is not decided by death, you are right. But the Grunt has had large objects thrown at him before, and while he was staggered, he was never badly hurt. The Grunt has also smashed in steel doors and casually broken barrels and wooden doors.

Where is it stated that Springtrap is a better fighter? I've never seen the dude do anything in order to kill someone other than screaming at them. The Grunt has shown superior strength compared to Springtrap via breaking through steel doors with medium difficulty. Springtrap will get torn to pieces, as Immortality 2 is resistance to damage. He will be able to outlast Springtrap while firing his own blows onto the robot.

Finally, the stanima. While the Grunt is limited, it is still Extremely High. It will take Springtrap ages to wear down the Grunt if he tries that.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It can break open doors that are even heavily barricaded, like here.

 

[Jackythejack]

I mean to be fair, Springtrap is said to arguably be the strongest animatronic, and the animatronics are implied to do things such as toss around arcade machines like toys and probably break through steel? I have heard that one of them did that before. Besides, Springtrap is smarter than the Grunt. He could probably think up a plan to knock the guy out at least, or incapacitate him somehow.

Besides the Grunt may have resilience to fatal injuries, but that doesn't mean you can't knock him out. I'm sure with something heavy enough you could just bash him over the head and he'll crumple at some point. Like, he could only take so much abuse, and it's possible to keep him at a range by just throwing things at him.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

There's also the issue of madness manip; unless Springtrap's shown resistance to it, the longer the fight drags out the more and more his mind falls apart. I don't think the madness itself could kill him, but it can mess with his logic and vision.

 

[Jackythejack]

But Spring's own hallucinations would also be able to distract the grunt. He'd have to target many different things, and considering he's pretty dumb, I'd say he'd put quite a bit of his focus on the phantoms as well, which is going to make him tired.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

If the halucinations are caused by mind manip/madness, the Gatherer would resist them. They aren't affected by being in the presense of other Gatherers nor are they affected by the presense of the Shadow, which has even greater madness manip than them.

 

[Jackythejack]

Are you implying that it's passive or are you implying that it's active? If it's active than I doubt that either The Shadow or the other Gatherers would want to affect one of their own. If it's passive then I guess you'd have a point, but if you're saying they cause this then of course it wouldn't happen to them. That'd be like friendly fire.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Like, he could only take so much abuse, and it's possible to keep him at a range by just throwing things at him.

Uh, no. You can throw as much crap as you want at this guy, and he won't go down. I'm sure theres a youtube video there somewhere that proves my point. It is impossible to stop this boi in the game, the only way out is by running and hiding. Springtrap can chuck as much stuff as he wants in the general direction of the Grunt, he is not taking him down. And, the main character of Amnesia can try that to bring a Grunt down. It doesn't work.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Passive. The moment you see the Gatherers, your insanity level goes up. Same goes for areas infected by the Shadow.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Are you implying that it's passive or are you implying that it's active? If it's active than I doubt that either The Shadow or the other Gatherers would want to affect one of their own. If it's passive then I guess you'd have a point, but if you're saying they cause this then of course it wouldn't happen to them. That'd be like friendly fire.

It does appear to be passive. When Daniel is within proximity of its fleshy protrusions, he slowly loses his sainity, but the Shadow doesn't notice him. I think it is passive.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

TBH I really don't know if the Gatherers should have madness manip

Daniel is not the most psychologically stable person as it is, it seems more like seeing these things is just pushing him over the edge. I doubt a completely sane person looking at a Gatherer would also go insane.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

But, on the other hand, Dargoo, Springtrap doesn't drive people mad. He scares and murders, but canonically, a person spends thirty-six hours with him, and doesn't show any signs of losing their sanity. The worst thing that happens to a person is that they begin to hyperventiate.

His skills are Fear manip and Illusion Creation. Which is a whole new kettle of fish. But I still believe that the Grunt has this.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

I mean to be fair, Springtrap is said to arguably be the strongest animatronic, and the animatronics are implied to do things such as toss around arcade machines like toys and probably break through steel?

Can you provide evidence, please? That would be very interesting.

 

[Jackythejack]

Provide evidence for which? That they can throw arcade machines around? I believe that's in Silver Eyes?

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

oh no.... now I have to read Silver Eyes.....

Here is the paragraph, I think.

"She heard the clash of metal on metal and the farthest console rocked back against the wall. He hit it again, shattering the display, then attacked the next, crashing against them almost rhythmically, tearing through the machinery, coming closer. I have to get out, I have to! The panicked thought was of no help; there was no way out. Her arm ached, and she wanted to sob aloud. Blood was soaking through the tattered bandage, and it seemed as though she could feel it draining out of her."

Foxy's not throwing the machine. He's breaking them, tearing through them, yes, but not throwing them.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

TBH I really don't know if the Gatherers should have madness manip

Daniel is not the most psychologically stable person as it is, it seems more like seeing these things is just pushing him over the edge. I doubt a completely sane person looking at a Gatherer would also go insane.

I mean, when the change in sanity is so drastic that Daniel starts seeing areas of the map differently that he otherwise wouldn't if he doesn't look at them, I think it's fairly straightforward.

Even the dialogue of his thoughts shift from straightforward commentary to raving lunacy. Insanity is something measured in-game; his sanity drops immediately when he sees them.

 

[Jackythejack]

Ah, alright, well that's still a lot of force behind it. I don't have the book myself, but from what I've read up on one of them can also just beat the crap out of a metal door and manage to warp it? Which...doesn't make sense with game mechanics but eh. fairly impressive either way. Those feats are very similar to the Grunts, actually. Though one can argue that Springtrap is still stronger than the other animatronics. He's able to take them on just on his own as a human, in a matter of seconds, and if you're to assume the suit gives him more power, what with an endoskeleton inside it, you could say he could do a lot more against an arcade machine or metal door. I still think Springtrap has this. This is a really close match up though. I enjoy this.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I mean, when the change in sanity is so drastic that Daniel starts seeing areas of the map differently that he otherwise wouldn't if he doesn't look at them, I think it's fairly straightforward.

Even the dialogue of his thoughts shift from straightforward commentary to raving lunacy. Insanity is something measured in-game; his sanity drops immediately when he sees them.

Yes, but that's not to say it is an inherent power of the gatherers. I'm not saying that Daniel looking at them doesn't drive him insane. I'm saying that Daniel going insane cannot be used to form an unbiased judgement of their ability to drive everyone insane, considering he is already pretty messed up in the head.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Where does it say he's already messed up in the head?

Although in the novels someone's kidnapped by one and doesn't get any immediate mental affects from what I'm aware of, but I'd need the quote.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He's paranoid, nyctophobic, obsessive, desperate, overwhelmed with guilt, and terrified for his life enough to torture people over and over every day and kill a little girl with his bare hands. And then he went and made himself amnesiac on top of it all. His mental state was in pieces well before he ever looked at a gatherer.

Exactly.

 

[Jackythejack]

Also Daniel just goes mad when he's in the dark, from what I remember? Like, I don't think it's normal for someone to lose their sanity just by sitting in the dark for a few minutes. Unless the entirety of the darkness in the cave is the shadow.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

He's nyctophobic, to a very extreme degree apparently. That's why he loses sanity in the dark.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

One of them beat a metal door, and managed to warp it in the book? The Grunt doesn't just warp the door, he actually breaks it.

William did take on the animatronics solo, but we didn't see if he had some other manner of disassembling them, or shutting them down, which we would assume would have to have, being a manager of the company. Plus, as Springtrap, his movements would be restricted by rust, which would have to have built up over the years. Also, no endoskeleon inside the suit. That's the point of Springtrap, it's made to be worn by a human, not by the endoskeleton.

You're right though, this is a close match, and really fun to discuss.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Love it how me and Jacky are discussing one thing, and Monarch and Dargoo are discussing something completely different.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Eh, the premise of the game has him forgetting most of that.

To be fair, normal people don't start seeing the world around them differently by looking at something spooky.

But you're right about the line of logic, and I mentioned something that could be a counter-feat, so feel free to remove it, although I feel a Possibly is still warranted.

They should still resist it due to the Shadow, however.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Eh, the premise of the game has him forgetting most of that.

He forgets why he feels that way. He doesn't stop feeling that way. His continued nyctophobia, despite forgetting the events of his childhood that led to that fear, show that the mental problems don't just go away, only the memories of why he has them.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

You're right. Remove it as you will, and Resistances should still be the same.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

No, the Grunt destroys a woode door, which I hope you don't try and compare to a metal door. They do however, unhinge metal doors, which is a better equivalent feet.

Now, the problem here is that I see no one mentioning how the Grunt is massively beat speed wise by Springtrap, or the fact Springtrap is naturally stealthy and elusive, the same thing that allowed Daniel to evade them. The Grunt can be as immortal as he wants, a good disabling hit that breaks bone or something else, and it won't be able to exert itself as before.

Plus, Springtrap's hallucionations should have nothing to do with madness, the employer doesn't seem to be any worse for wear mentally by the end fo it all.

 

[Jackythejack]

Speed is equalized, which is why we're ignoring that difference.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Oh wait, speed equalized... well **** that.

Still, rest of my points still go.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Crimson, Monarch, could you verify what your votes are, or are you still thinking this over?

Votes:

Springtrap (Five Nights at Freddy's) - 2 (Jack, LSirLancelot)

Gatherer -

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

I'm not voting

I was just bringing up the madness stuff.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Alrighty, thanks either way. I also made the profile for The Shadow (Amnesia), could you message me about any issues with that?

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

I was voting for the Grunt. I would have thought that that would be obvious.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Thanks for clarifying, and sorry for not getting that right off the bat.

Springtrap (Five Nights at Freddy's) - 2 (Jack, LSirLancelot)

Gatherer - 1 (Crimson)

 

[Holyhotsauce]

I have no idea where the idea of Springtrap being the strongest character in the series came from.....

Nonetheless, even Withered Chica (Who has no hands or even a functioning jaw), Mangle (Who is literally a dismantled mess of parts) and Withered Bonnie (Who has no face and only one arm) can instakill The Player character.

Not only that, but highly damaged (not quite to the extent of the Withered Animatronics) OG Animatronics quite literally tore the Twisted Ones to pieces (For a reference, Twisted Freddy, who had no legs and only one arm at the time, overpowered and killed an adult with no trouble at all).

William Afton dismantled and destroyed the OG Animatronics even while still a human, and after getting sprung-trapped he should be even stronger than that.