(Spoilers!) The Ring of Truth at the Final Horizon: Sonic the Hedgehog

[MysticMania]

The characters are not carrying them all the time, simple

If I may ask, why would they not be doing so? If Rings can canonically negate damage from attacks, I feel many in the cast would choose to keep Rings on hand. They're everywhere, and with Tails being able to make fake Rings, I feel they wouldn't have a hard time getting a hold of some. I feel Dr.Starline would have equipped Surge and Kit with Rings, for example. He did give them regeneration beyond Sonic & Tails to begin with, so if Rings are canon, he would absolutely know of them, and, I honestly don't know why he wouldn't have used them. He used the Power Cores, originating and only showing up in Sonic Heroes, which show up only in that game. So, if he's in-the-know about those, he would definitely know about Rings, and I don't really see him passing up that defensive potential.

 

[ShakeResounding]

If I may ask, why would they not be doing so? If Rings can canonically negate damage from attacks, I feel many in the cast would choose to keep Rings on hand.

Everything past this is speculative, personal headcanon that we don't need to answer. IDW is secondary canon, with Ian Flynn verbatim stating to ignore any inconsistencies in the comics because the games take precedence.

We don't know if Rings will be explored in IDW, and there's no point in speculating why they haven't. At this point, I feel some of you are spouting anything to argue against it as if you can't grasp the idea of multi-media franchises. Stop making mountains out of anthills, people.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I agree. It allows the characters to survive effectively anything in their verse, while also needing Rings for Super, which would be consistent with gameplay mechanics. Shields are also just better Rings, and they can be a bubble. Rings can't be a bubble, so

Do you just have a tendency to ignore others' comments addressing points? No, Supers would not need to rely on Ring energy because the very first game Super Forms appear in debunks that.

And no, characters having Rings doesn't allow them to survive anything because 1) they still need to have Rings to begin with, which they don't carry on them all the time, and 2) They drop a varying amount on-hit that cannot be recovered at a rate faster than them being able to walk and find some. Again, you're demanding perfect consistency with how Rings are treated in a franchise known for being inconsistent. It ain't that deep, we don't need to be losing hairs over this.

 

[BlastX]

Full power implies it’s something Sonic can access naturally, when the only way he got it was a cyber amp he lost because of using it too recklessly.

He lost it cause he used the corruption to it's max extent, basically at full power

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes, and now he doesn’t have it anymore according to Master Koco.

 

[Omegabronic]

Yes, and now he doesn’t have it anymore according to Master Koco.

it is said that the blue eye form was said to be his "hidden power", the cyber corruption just made him unlock that

 

[JJSliderman]

Well hopefully it comes back in a later game.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I agree, btw was the time limit from rings affected in the game?

 

[Omegabronic]

I agree, btw was the time limit from rings affected in the game?

Time limit is not a thing in lore at all

 

[JJSliderman]

Then what is the ring/super form connection? If they’re canon in one way, shouldn’t they be canon in every aspect their abilities are used?

 

[Omegabronic]

Then what is the ring/super form connection?

there isn't one

If they’re canon in one way, shouldn’t they be canon in every aspect their abilities are used?

not at all, one is supported by lore moments and statements, the other is not while also is contradicted by the very first appearance of a super form

 

[JJSliderman]

Well clearly super forms do run out at some point in many games, there has to be a reason for that

 

[ShakeResounding]

If they’re canon in one way, shouldn’t they be canon in every aspect their abilities are used?

Take this line of thinking and try applying it to other verses. I don't think you'll get very far, unless you want to argue canonical Resurrection via extra lives after passing 100 Rings.

 

[Omegabronic]

Well clearly super forms do run out at some point in many games, there has to be a reason for that

which is a game mechanic as in lore they don't, sonic stayed 3 days in super in Sonic advance, heck, the entire point of the emeralds is that they give "infinite energy" they running out of energy is against the lore showings and statements we have

 

[JJSliderman]

Them being infinite energy is sort of contradicted by how they have been drained of either half or all of their energy in games like SA1 or Rush.

And I interpreted Sonic staying in super form as him not doing any strenuous activity due to already defeating the super egg robot, while when he exerts himself heavily he needs rings or some alternative energy as sustain.

And well, the extra lives are items you can buy in Lost World and Generations…

 

[Omegabronic]

Them being infinite energy is sort of contradicted by how they have been drained of either half or all of their energy in games like SA1 or Rush.

they weren't drained in either of those, they "lost their power" because someone used the negative energy of them, they still had the energy in them as shown by the characters still using them

And I interpreted Sonic staying in super form as him not doing any strenuous activity due to already defeating the super egg robot, while when he exerts himself heavily he needs rings or some alternative energy as sustain.

you interpreting something = that something being true, specially when you are relying purely on interpretations of what is happening that go against nearly all statements about the emeralds that exist

Anyway this is starting to get into derail territory

 

[JJSliderman]

they weren't drained in either of those, they "lost their power" because someone used the negative energy of them, they still had the energy in them as shown by the characters still using them

Then explain what happened in Unleashed, where the negative energy was also drained and yet they couldn’t be used for their positive energy. There is enough anti-feats to say the Chaos Emeralds granting unlimited stores of energy is contradicted, or potentially referring more to their strength level vs their energy capacity.

 

[Omegabronic]

Then explain what happened in Unleashed, where the negative energy was also drained and yet they couldn’t be used for their positive energy.

eggman inverted their polarity, forced super sonic to go out of his transformation and due to him using negative energy shot them down, he basically power nulled them

There is enough anti-feats to say the Chaos Emeralds granting unlimited stores of energy is contradicted, or potentially referring more to their strength level vs their energy capacity.

no there isn't, stop derailing this thread with things that have nothing to do with it just because you personally think otherwise

 

[JJSliderman]

To get back on topic, Amy/Knuckles/Tails contributing to make the forcefield strong enough to withstand multiple blows from the End seems notable.

That, and Cyber stuff seems to offer some sort of power null. Amy couldn’t use her hammer, and Knuckles couldn’t punch by default and requires an upgrade, even after having punching unlocked by the white Emerald in superstars. Cyber stuff traps you between dimensions so you can’t move, Sage is capable of removing resistance to and slowing the rate of cyber corruption, cyberspace acts as pseudo Subjective reality as Sonic’s memories connecting to cyberspace let him terraform the environment with rails only he and the player characters could see.

Chaos Emeralds were used to create robots that could regenerate from total destruction using gravitation from meteors (hence CE may grant regen), Base Sonic was fully healed after de transforming from Super in spite of Super being heavily bruised.

And since Super Sonic 2/Fully corrupted SS2 is coated in cyber energy, perhaps he could possibly be capable of using cyber based hax on contact, and the End is just resistant to it as the only one Sonic fought.

There’s more evidence for Sonic resisting fate manip, as Sage says he is transcending fate. The Ancients possess cloaking technology and apparently had hacking resistant technology as well

 

[y3p_owo]

There’s more evidence for Sonic resisting fate manip, as Sage says he is transcending fate.

Scans?

 

[Dalesean027]

This all seems fine to me

 

[MysticMania]

Everything past this is speculative, personal headcanon that we don't need to answer. IDW is secondary canon, with Ian Flynn verbatim stating to ignore any inconsistencies in the comics because the games take precedence.

We don't know if Rings will be explored in IDW, and there's no point in speculating why they haven't. At this point, I feel some of you are spouting anything to argue against it as if you can't grasp the idea of multi-media franchises. Stop making mountains out of anthills, people.

I'm still not sure why they wouldn't have some always on hand, if the damage negation exists in-universe. The characters would use them more often.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I'm still not sure why they wouldn't have some always on hand, if the damage negation exists in-universe. The characters would use them more often.

The same reason they don't always seek out the Chaos Emeralds despite them having the capacity to do so easily.

 

[MysticMania]

I'm still in disagreement with Rings, personally. Resisting damage isn't something we have as a consistent in-universe, and the characters have gotten hurt without dropping Rings in multiple games, when they would very likely be holding onto some if that function was real, for them. (Being everywhere the characters go, and acting as the world's currency would lead to Rings being super common. So, unless the characters like or want to be damaged in confrontations with combat, I imagine they would carry Rings as often as possible.)
I do agree with everything else, in regards to the sandbox shared in the first place.

[Edit]: I'm sorry Shake, I didn't see your reply. I guess I was typing this up when that sent. I'm not trying to ignore you, or anything.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Resisting damage isn't something we have as a consistent in-universe,

The only time they appear in a cutscene, they do as intended.

and the characters have gotten hurt without dropping Rings in multiple games, when they would very likely be holding onto some if that function was real, for them.

Tails mentions them in Generations so it's not like this matters.

(Being everywhere the characters go, and acting as the world's currency would lead to Rings being super common.

This is self-defeating.

So, unless the characters like or want to be damaged in confrontations with combat, I imagine they would carry Rings as often as possible.)

Why doesn't Sonic always carry a Chaos Emerald despite it literally being the most powerful possession in the universe within his palm? He's done so before, why not more often? This is just you inserting ideas into the narrative that's ultimately a line of questioning you can apply elsewhere for many verses.

I do agree with everything else, in regards to the sandbox shared in the first place.

Yipperoo!

Edit: Ah no problem, man. You know it's nothing personal, we're both fans of a franchise we love. Even if we disagree, I'll respect you.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Is anybody's alert button broken or is that just me?

 

[ShakeResounding]

Also we can simply make Rings Optional Equipment btw, if the big deal is that they aren't always carrying them (which is true). I was never against this idea, and in fact I would encourage that it isn't Standard Equipment for anyone. Remember, it's just a verse-wide addition.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Is anybody's alert button broken or is that just me?

Not just you.

 

[y3p_owo]

Is anybody's alert button broken or is that just me?

Mine was a bit earlier

 

[Eseseso]

Is anybody's alert button broken or is that just me?

Not sure if it's broken, but definitely acting differently.

 

[Theuser789]

Is anybody's alert button broken or is that just me?

I think the forum updated and somethings are weird because of it.

 

[JJSliderman]

To get back on topic, Amy/Knuckles/Tails contributing to make the forcefield strong enough to withstand multiple blows from the End seems notable.

That, and Cyber stuff seems to offer some sort of power null. Amy couldn’t use her hammer, and Knuckles couldn’t punch by default and requires an upgrade, even after having punching unlocked by the white Emerald in superstars. Cyber stuff traps you between dimensions so you can’t move, Sage is capable of removing resistance to and slowing the rate of cyber corruption, cyberspace acts as pseudo Subjective reality as Sonic’s memories connecting to cyberspace let him terraform the environment with rails only he and the player characters could see.

Chaos Emeralds were used to create robots that could regenerate from total destruction using gravitation from meteors (hence CE may grant regen), Base Sonic was fully healed after de transforming from Super in spite of Super being heavily bruised.

And since Super Sonic 2/Fully corrupted SS2 is coated in cyber energy, perhaps he could possibly be capable of using cyber based hax on contact, and the End is just resistant to it as the only one Sonic fought.

There’s more evidence for Sonic resisting fate manip, as Sage says he is transcending fate. The Ancients possess cloaking technology and apparently had hacking resistant technology as well

Will get scans for this at some point soon, I have one for transcending fate but the rest was mostly from the character conversations.

 

[JJSliderman]

Forgot I finally finished FH, Master Koco on hard mode really sucks but I did it.

And then I found out cyloop works on Knight phase 2, I just never tried cuz I assumed he’d break out or retaliate like the other two.

 

[ShakeResounding]

To get back on topic, Amy/Knuckles/Tails contributing to make the forcefield strong enough to withstand multiple blows from the End seems notable.

I'm almost tempted to give each of them a "Digitized" ability tabber (specifically an ability tabber, because a standard key is too minimal and unnecessary)

That, and Cyber stuff seems to offer some sort of power null. Amy couldn’t use her hammer, and Knuckles couldn’t punch by default and requires an upgrade, even after having punching unlocked by the white Emerald in superstars.

Amy uses her Piko Piko in her Parry but otherwise that's a very good point.

Cyber stuff traps you between dimensions so you can’t move

I think this is Vector Manipulation + BFR. From the Vector Manipulation page, "As such the most usual applications of the power deal with the manipulation of the direction and velocity of the movement of various different things. Those could be physical objects or also energy like light, gravity, electricity or the spreading of heat." I think bringing people to a halt and trapping them between dimensions fits the bill.

Sage is capable of removing resistance to and slowing the rate of cyber corruption

Removing a resistance should be Limited Power Modification, I think, but also gives her Cyber Corruption (or at least the ability to manipulate it) without Cyber Cages.

cyberspace acts as pseudo Subjective reality as Sonic’s memories connecting to cyberspace let him terraform the environment with rails only he and the player characters could see.

Fair enough, yes. Not much use here but this would definitely make a "Cyber Space" location profile pretty unique...

Chaos Emeralds were used to create robots that could regenerate from total destruction using gravitation from meteors (hence CE may grant regen)

The turrets, right? I saw that and left it at an amazing intelligence feat but Regen might be feasible...

Base Sonic was fully healed after de transforming from Super in spite of Super being heavily bruised.

True. This supports Type 3 Self-Sustenance, but we should now note that leaving a Super State renders the user healed.

And since Super Sonic 2/Fully corrupted SS2 is coated in cyber energy, perhaps he could possibly be capable of using cyber based hax on contact, and the End is just resistant to it as the only one Sonic fought.

I was thinking about this and I agree with you, Sonic's subsuming a physical substance/energy that has radical properties and had to hone this power into something suitable to use.

There’s more evidence for Sonic resisting fate manip, as Sage says he is transcending fate.

Whoa, is this in a new dialogue conversation?

 

[JJSliderman]

Will get scans for this at some point soon, I have one for transcending fate but the rest was mostly from the character conversations.

Scan credits:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3QksApbCvs&pp=ygUYRmluYWwgaG9yaXpvbiBmaW5hbCBib3Nz

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1NA5MqkHjAs

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8IyU2FevscE

https://www.reddit.com/r/SonicFrontiers/comments/16zh2rd/final_horizon_lore/

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=plJ4XtAYNQI&pp=ygUdZmluYWwgaG9yaXpvbiBzb25pYyBmcm9udGllcnM=

 

[Elizhaa]

OP seem fine.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I don't say this often, JJ... But incredible work.

I'll add this some of this to my sandbox when I get a chance.

 

[Eseseso]

I don't say this often, JJ... But incredible work.

I'll add this some of this to my sandbox when I get a chance.

Don't forget editing Base Sonic's causality resistance justification.

OP seem fine.

Yay

 

[Eseseso]

One thing: Shouldn't Super Sonic have higher durability with Cyber Corruption?

For more context, keep in mind that The End can negate Super Sonic's invulnerability, yet TE-corrupted Supreme's attacks don't do any real damage to Cyber Super Sonic.

Also, the End should probably get an AP justification addition for being far superior to Tethered Supreme considering that it could casually refuel it with its own energy multiple times without any issue during the fight.

Tbh, I can just add this once this CRT is finally accepted.

 

[JJSliderman]

Oh I forgot Eggman can make an energy tether with his Eggmobile to grapple onto other objects and use their functionality.