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Spite. No, but 2-C Beerus and Champa.

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I said “other than size” for a reason fam 😐
Oh, my bad. Well, without size being factored in, I guess another difference would be that usually universes that are truly separate space-time continua are not slumped together in a structure? Especially one thats supposed to be its own space-time continua (timeline)?

I’m not sure what you want me to try and explain here without size being factored in when it by itself is pretty important.
 
Well, this isn't the thread to debate about DB cosmology.
 
If you can’t get 2-C by multiplication from low2-C. It makes no sense to allow for the opposite (division from 2-C into low 2-C.) it is ridiculously hypocritical and convoluted.
Except the opposite isn't really happening. You can only get to 2-C based on evidence and Beerus and Champa cannot destroy 2 universes on their own which is the minimum requirement of getting to 2-C. The gap between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable and it just so happens that Beerus's and Champa's combined power can bridge that gap.

Unless you have a feat and/or reliable statement of Beerus being able to destroy 2 universes on his own, he literally cannot be 2-C according to the standards.
 
Would giving "At least Low 2-C" to the gods of destruction, Broly, Jiren, and UI Goku, and 2-C to Vegito and the angels be a reasonable compromise solution?

Beerus might be able to destroy both universes without Champa after all. It is just that both of them fighting would automatically destroy the two universes.
 
The problem though is that none of these smaller scale space-times are universal space-times in and of themselves
But they are, Universe 7 is made up by two universal size dimensions, the Living World and Afterlife, and all the other universes have the same structure.

If it wasn't the case, then Beerus and Champa's clash cannot be considered as either a 2-C or Low 2-C feat, only a 3-A feat.
 
Beerus might be able to destroy both universes without Champa after all. It is just that both of them fighting would automatically destroy the two universes.
If we assume that the universes are very close to each other, then theoretically speaking he could potentially destroy both universes, especially since he also scale above Infinite Zamasu, putting Beerus above baseline Low 2-C.
 
But they are, Universe 7 is made up by two universal size dimensions, the Living World and Afterlife, and all the other universes have the same structure.
The examples used to help explain 2-C above were Hits pocket dimension and the RoSaT, which the latters are absolutely not universal sized space-times.

Do we accept the afterlife being a separate space-time here?
 
Do we accept the afterlife being a separate space-time here?
It should be, the Afterlife was always show to be around the same size as the Living World, the portion of the 7 Universe which resemble our reality, and it can only be reach by either dying, via teleportation (like Instant Trasmission or Warp) or (if you count DBGT) by creating a dimensional hole (similar to the time Super Buu was able to escape from the RoSaT by making a wormhole), it was even stated that time flow differently.
 
wasnt the reason for not using multipliers because the distance wasnt quantifiable?
as we got a distance cant we use multipliers for top goku who would scale below beerus
 
Well, we do know that he is at least very very close to being able to do so on his own, so I think that an "At least Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" or something similar seems warranted.
How do we know that? All we know is that Beerus and Champa's combined power can destroy 2 universes. If you say Champa is almost equal to Beerus, that would still mean that their combined power could very well be 2 times higher than Beerus's own power. Why would we rate him possibly 2-C in that case? He would still be Low 2-C, just at the higher end of it.
 
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Well, we know that Beerus is at least above halfway capable of destroying both universes at once, as he is stronger than Champa, and possibly capable of doing it on his own if he really made an unrestricted effort, as it would just be a side-effect of the two of them fighting in normal space according to Whis, if I remember correctly.
 
Yeah, we know he is very high into Low 2-C but the part about him being able to destroy both universes if he really made an unrestricted effort is again pure guess. They were bleeding out when they were fighting and were stopped before any real destruction took place. So it is completely unknown whether Beerus was actually using his full power at that time, and if he wasn't, we don't know how much higher he could go and whether that is enough to break into 2-C.

Like I said, from the information we have, we can only solidly conclude that he is pretty high in Low 2-C. Anything beyond that would just be a wild guess. And we don't work based on guesses, do we? If we did, we'd rate Zeno as 2-B by now.
 
Well, I still think that an "At least Low 2-C" would be warranted based a foundation that is solid of this level, but if other staff members do not agree, I will not push the issue.
 
At least Low 2-C implies the same thing, that he "might" be higher. Higher in this case implies 2-C, which has no basis and comes from unsupported guesses. This has all been discussed earlier too you know.

Again, if you can't multiply a Low 2-C into 2-C, why can you divide it?

Except this isn't about multiplication or division. I already answered that in an earlier post.
 
At least Low 2-C implies the same thing, that he "might" be higher. Higher in this case implies 2-C, which has no basis and comes from unsupported guesses. This has all been discussed earlier too you know.
The At least usually its used to denote the lower/minimum cap of a character, its the higher that it used to suggest that a character is potentially on a higher tier.
 
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Idk if someone said this but if Zamasu could affected his universe and U7 (which would eventually give him 2C) and people say U6 & U7 are close together + GoDs would be superior to Zamasu

would that warrant 2-C then?
 
Okay. IN that case I'm not against adding an "At least". All it does is basically say that he is very high into Low 2-C, which he is.
Would that be enough to allow UI Goku, BUW Jiren and SSB Gogeta to reach 2-C? Because Whis’ statement about Jiren puts his full power at >= the GoDs, and UI Goku absolutely fondled full power Jiren with no difficulty. BUW Jiren then matched UI Goku.

Meanwhile Broly is stated to “probably” be stronger than Beerus, putting him >= the GoDs like full power Jiren. SSB Gogeta then stomped Broly’s face in.
 
I think that we can Gogeta at 2-C, but the others are more uncertain. "At least Low 2-C" should be enough.
 
They won't change because Beerus' rating is not really changing here as far as the overall rating goes. All those characters were discussed previously and they will also remain the same except for the addition of an "At least" to denote that they are all really high into the tier. Gogeta was rated as possibly 2-C once but he was downgraded later, his position also won't really be changing on that front.
 
Gogeta is pretty much guaranteed to be more than twice as strong as Beerus though.
 
Well, the thread that downgraded it would disagree with that. But searching for an old thread isn't really easy now so I can't link it.

Guaranteed is a strong word you are using there because if it were guaranteed, he would have been rated so. We only know that Blue Gogeta fought Broly and defeated him. That doesn't necessarily mean he is that much more stronger than Beerus (especially after recent information from the manga implying Beerus might be much stronger still.)
 
Universe level+ as a Super Saiyan Blue (After breaking his limits by achieving Ultra Instinct -Sign- a second time, and after defeating Anilaza, he managed to fight against Jiren, who was finally showing a hint of his full power)
as ssb is accepted to be low 2C cant we apply kaioken multiplier for goku to scale him to 2C ? as the distance between the two universes wasnt much

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also goku with kaioken x20 couldnt do much against jiren but he could with ui
so ui gives a bigger amp than x20
 
I am sure if the anime comes out, it will go the same route lol. But even without any help from the manga, it was concluded that there wasn't sufficient evidence of Gogeta being that much more stronger than Beerus so as to reach 2-C.
 
Universe level+ as a Super Saiyan Blue (After breaking his limits by achieving Ultra Instinct -Sign- a second time, and after defeating Anilaza, he managed to fight against Jiren, who was finally showing a hint of his full power)
as ssb is accepted to be low 2C cant we apply kaioken multiplier for goku to scale him to 2C ? as the distance between the two universes wasnt much

unknown.png

also goku with kaioken x20 couldnt do much against jiren but he could with ui
so ui gives a bigger amp than x20
and due to gogeta being superior to goku he would scale too
 
I am sure if the anime comes out, it will go the same route lol. But even without any help from the manga, it was concluded that there wasn't sufficient evidence of Gogeta being that much more stronger than Beerus so as to reach 2-C.
I mean, probably, but until that happens you can’t use the manga to go against the anime.
 
I mean, Jiren is a chad. What did you expect?

Anyways, I have a question that my tired sleepy brain cannot answer yet. Is there any reason why multipliers won't grant 2-C for Goku and others? I mean, from what I have seen, we don't grant 2-C to characters through sheer multipliers because we don't know the distance between the universes. But if the distance is indeed this small, shouldn't multipliers be accepted or smth?
 
Except the opposite isn't really happening. You can only get to 2-C based on evidence and Beerus and Champa cannot destroy 2 universes on their own which is the minimum requirement of getting to 2-C. The gap between Low 2-C and 2-C is unquantifiable and it just so happens that Beerus's and Champa's combined power can bridge that gap.

Unless you have a feat and/or reliable statement of Beerus being able to destroy 2 universes on his own, he literally cannot be 2-C according to the standards.
This gap doesn’t have a consistent basis in anything though, so it makes little sense to claim that Beerus is weaker then a Baseline 2-C because of a gap that may or may not even exist, or have a constant size anywhere.
 
I mean, Jiren is a chad. What did you expect?

Anyways, I have a question that my tired sleepy brain cannot answer yet. Is there any reason why multipliers won't grant 2-C for Goku and others? I mean, from what I have seen, we don't grant 2-C to characters through sheer multipliers because we don't know the distance between the universes. But if the distance is indeed this small, shouldn't multipliers be accepted or smth?
Nah that just makes it low 2-C because the distance is quantifiable.
 
Which reminds me... Three of them fought and didn’t do shit to the WOV, while a suppressed Jiren shook it by standing around.
Only in one's imagination. But seriously, if the Null Realm could have been shaken, how do we know that it actually was? The two people who commented on the void being shaken were very unreliable sources, those being Krillin and Android 18; 18 can't even sense energy.
 
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