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Spirit Sign "Massive Touhou Upgrades"

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It might also be possible that spirit and soul are two distinct things. Which also logically explains how soulless beings can have spirit.
Spirit force being something comparable to Chi kinda make sense but i don't have any evidence nor information to argue for that so im just giving an opinion regarding it until i can actually back my own claim
 
I mean. You did read the first half of the CRT, right? I go into pretty heavy detail regarding why they're the same.

Plus there's still the contradiction of 'spirit is emotions but Yoshika and Mayumi don't have emotions' so your suggestion doesn't even fix anything.
 
Actually, real quick, if what you're looking for is evidence that phantoms (and by extension spirit) are genuinely souls, here's this:
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“The Soul Torch is an item used for guiding a countless number of souls; it is something that originally only existed in the Netherworld. The light from it can be seen by phantoms no matter how far away they are or how many obstacles are in the way. And when they see it, they flock to it.”

This help clear things up? I can dig for other evidence if needed.
 
Except the one that you say claims phantom as soul.thw dialogue says it is spirit of living things and animals.
And with how temperament and spirit being interchangable.you can easily connect it as thread that when the dialogue says spirit of living things and animals are phantom.it could also mean as emotions or temperament
 
...The scan above blatantly proves that phantoms are souls though. It doesn't matter what you interpret the PMiSS scan as, because these CoLA scans prove that phantoms equal souls on their own. And hell, I wasn't even done scouring the wiki yet. And that doesn't even include shit from the manga
 
It doesnt really because japanese is highly contextualized language.and with how they keep using spirit to define other things like temperament and emotions and energy as such the dialogue saying spirit rather than soul says a lot
 
"I'm not wrong, the translation is wrong". Do you have any evidence to suggest that the translated scans I have provided are translated poorly, missing context, or otherwise wrong besides "Japanese is a difficult language to translate"? Because right now I'm giving you text that quite clearly states that phantoms are souls, and you're just assuming it's wrong for reasons I cannot possibly comprehend.
 
Calm down a bit if that in case We should find someone re-translate it again I remember someone help us about different kind of heaven in heaven in Touhou Up and Down thread before I will dig that thread up and find who was help us and ask about it
 
Pixy said:
Calm down a bit if that in case We should find someone re-translate it again I remember someone help us about different kind of heaven in heaven in Touhou Up and Down thread before I will dig that thread up and find who was help us and ask about it
Click to expand...
There's no re-translation necessary, because nothing even remotely indicates that there is a mistranslation or other inaccuracy here. We cannot go around just naturally assuming that every single scan we provide is wrong just because the language it was translated from is hard to translate.

Like. We have translations of this shit. We've had them for years. And they are accurate the vast majority of the time. You need a damn good reason to request a second opinion besides "idk it could theoretically be wrong" because at that point you're just fishing for the answer you want that you didn't get the first time around, and I will not let that shit slide.

Let me lay this out for you as simply as possible. Phantoms are souls because the Soul Torch, a device designed to attract souls, attracts phantoms. Phantoms are temperament, because the scarlet mist that Tenshi created is said to be temperament, but it is also referred to as a cloud of phantoms on several occasions. Komachi also repeatedly says that phantoms and temperament are the same. And temperament is the same as spirit, because Tenshi's spell cards that use temperament are also said to be using spirit, Yuyuko says the mists of temperament are spirit, and Tenshi says that what she's absorbing is spirit. Spirit = temperament = phantoms = souls. All of these connections are explicit and consistent. You are making an issue out of absolutely ******* nothing here.
 
Honestly if you're going to come into this thread and just start throwing around headcanons and what-ifs, like I've seen a depressing amount of people do today, just ******* leave. It does nothing but bloat threads to ridiculous page counts over arguments that aren't even ******* arguments, and I have neither the mental acuity or patience to deal with it today. So by all means, if you have evidence that anything here is wrong, bring it up and I will discuss it. But this "but what if-" bullshit has gotta stop.
 
If you're STILL not convinced about phantoms being souls, Komachi is said to ferry phantoms, but surprise surprise, she's also said to ferry souls. PoFV even has her say she'll ferry 'these souls' while referring to phantoms.
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At this rate, there are so many scans corroborating these connections, that you are assuming that literally dozens of scans are incorrectly translated (I counted, I posted no less than 37 scans regarding the spirit/temperament/souls stuff). That is a massive ******* assumption that no sane person would ever bother debating, because it make 0 ******* sense. Yet here I am anyways, because I am certainly the least sane person on this site.

at this rate i feel like if i said "water in touhou is wet" id still need like 20 scans, translations checked by no less than 5 experts, and the approval of zun himself just to get people to agree
 
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I will say that even if people disagree with the Yoshika/Mayumi stuff, resistance negation is still applicable due to how spirit manipulation is shown to always work on characters who have resistance to soulhax.
 
When hitting an opponent while any projectiles they've fired are on the field, the attack will be cancelled and turned into spirit power, which is then automatically absorbed. This would be Attack Nullification as well as Transmutation, as it is changing the structure of what the danmaku was originally into spirit power.

Don't think the others are game mechanics, but this one might be. It happens frequently on videogames for attacks to disappear when their maker is hit, breaks or dies. Metroid, Mu-12's turrets, monster makers in some games, castlevania creatures turning into hearts or other items, etc etc etc.
Makes me think that is game balancing. While in the shooter games when you beat a spell card you gain Ps and the shots disappear but all kinds of JP shooters love rewarding the player just like that. Beating the enemy but getting a punish for it is bad game design.
 
I can kinda see your point, and while this may hold true for the STGs (the danmaku disappears and is turned to spirit/point items after the boss is beaten or their phase changes), I'm not sure if the same really holds true for fighting games. I personally can't think of any other fighting games where hitting your enemy deletes their projectiles, plus it's semi-consistent with the way characters interact with danmaku in other games (like still being able to transmute it in 17.5).

Though at the same time, I don't really have enough evidence to say it's undeniably not game mechanics or whatever :v

Although I guess I could just say "but Sanae said items are canon" and leave it at that :v
 
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Bump

Last call for any objections before I change the fear manip proposals to what Daimaou and I agreed on.
 
Alright, I've updated the new OP in accordance with the fear manipulation changes, added some evidence for the spirit/soul connections, and fixed up a few other things.
 
Done. So far the votes for immunity negation seem to be pretty split between agreement, neutrality, and disagreement, and I feel like both sides have said basically everything possible in support of their arguments, so I''ll advise just waiting for more votes or staff input.

Not often you see a 150 post long thread with 0 staff interactions, come to think of it
 
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It's just for their soul, it isn't full mid-godly. I went with @Hecatia_Gaming's earlier suggestion regarding that (which would also include upgrading youkai and Hourai immortals to full mid-godly) because that's my personal pick for what we should use, but I will update the page to whichever interpretation of the regeneration we decide on.
 
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