Resizing/Retiering the GSR

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Unfortunately for Farshtey's height of 40 million feet/12192 km, it's too big, and makes the Island of Mata Nui, which is 357 kio/489.09 km in length and 178 kio/243.86 km wide, only fit the nose of the Great Spirit Robot when visually the island is supposed to be the entire face. It is a very plot critical point that the island covers it's whole face (the island is a mask and masks are part of the entire foundation of the series' lore) And that the island has be destroyed so he can be properly awakened.

This is what Mata Nui looks like with on top of the GSR with respect to that height:

However with Faber's height, 3150 km, it makes more sense as it is more consistent with what is visually represented with the Great Spirit Robot's face and Mata Nui.

So resizing everything with respect to the GSR, I made the calculations accordingly:

GSR weight: 1.66455060156940E+20 kg (Class E) (ACCEPTED)

GSR using gravity manipulation to pull Bota and Aqua Magna into Bara Magna: 1.01961182864442E+29 N (Pre-Stellar)

Reforming Spherus Magna: 5.93808278124370E+39 J (Brown Dwarf level)

Agree: @Tankirbmon @Vrokorta @Catzlaflame @KingTempest

Disagree: @Elizio33 @Promestein @Antvasima @FinePoint @Lonkitt

Neutral: @GrathOfLux @Damage3245

 

[Tankirbmon]

I agree with this. Seems more consistent with the story.

An Australia sized robot walking on planets and being covered by an ocean makes a bit more sense than an earth sized one.

It's pretty consistent that the island of mata nui is supposed to cover the face of the GSR while I don't think him being 40,000,000 feet tall has much supporting evidence.

 

[Elizio33]

I disagree with this even though the proposed size would be much more consistent, 40 million feet is something officially stated in the story.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

boop

 

[Antvasima]

@Promestein @Vrokorta @Emirp sumitpo @Sans2345 @Arrogant_Schmuck @Neutralino @StretchSebe

What do you think about this?

 

[Neutralino]

Unfortunately, this situation is nothing new. Official stated numbers are very often at odds with how they're portrayed in a story, and it depends on whether this forum prioritizes the the authorial intent or calcs.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

it depends on whether this forum prioritizes the the authorial intent or calcs.

Doesn't Faber have as much authorial authority too?

 

[Promestein]

I dunno if I'm too invested in going one way or another - completely dependent on whether or not people want to go with Farshtey or Faber's interpretation of the sizes in question. Faber is the original art director, so in that sense, he may hold more significance here. I guess I'd wonder if Faber's is consistent with all the other sizes given.

 

[Vrokorta]

I have to agree. Considering we have a confirmed size for the island of Mata Nui, & an animation showing the GSR's size relative to said island, it does make Faber's height more consistent. And let's face it, the planets were stupid big with Farshtey's height.

 

[Neutralino]

I have to agree. Considering we have a confirmed size for the island of Mata Nui, & an animation showing the GSR's size relative to said island, it does make Faber's height more consistent. And let's face it, the planets were stupid big with Farshtey's height.

Why should the stated size of the island of Mata Nui take precedence over the stated size of the robot? It could just as easily be argued that the island should be larger than 486km.

 

[Vrokorta]

Why should the stated size of the island of Mata Nui take precedence over the stated size of the robot? It could just as easily be argued that the island should be larger than 486km.

My reasoning is this. We have two sizes for the GSR, & one size for the island. We know how big they are relative to each other. One size for the GSR doesn't line up with the size for the island, but the other size does. Given the numbers we have, it seems most reasonable to go with what's most consistent. We don't have two sizes for the island the same way we have two sizes for the GSR.
Think about it, we have three sizes, & two line up. Are we really going to throw away two consistent sizes in favor of one outlier? Sure, there's little to contradict the larger end, but there's nothing contradicting the smaller size either. There's more to support the smaller size in-universe than there is the larger size.

 

[Promestein]

Where's the 3,150km figure from?

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Where's the 3,150km figure from?

Turaga Files - Unboxing the Legend - Exhibit 022

Much has been said about the size of the giant robot Mata Nui and what you see here is not canon or anything. It is the simple...

faberfiles.blogspot.com

 

[Promestein]

I'd cast some doubt on this as a perfectly reliable statement.

Canon or not? Now you know the inspiration sources.

Denmark is small and very flat without mountains but almost an island. so I think Mata Nui is my secret dream of what Denmark would look like if it was mixed with Hawaii.

Faber pretty much avoids saying whether or not it's canon or not and expresses that Mata Nui is not consistent with Denmark's geography or size, and his comparison to Denmark is where the height figure comes from. It's not like Faber intended it to be 3,150km; he's just saying that if you do this, you'd get 3,150km as the height.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

It's not like Faber intended it to be 3,150km; he's just saying that if you do this, you'd get 3,150km as the height.

One size for the GSR doesn't line up with the size for the island, but the other size does. Given the numbers we have, it seems most reasonable to go with what's most consistent. We don't have two sizes for the island the same way we have two sizes for the GSR.

 

[Promestein]

You don't get what I'm saying. Faber's height calc is based off of Denmark's size and is done by transposing the GSR over a map of Europe, with its head at Denmark. Mata Nui is much, much bigger than Denmark; Denmark's surface area is 43 thousand kilometers squared. Mata Nui's is roughly 138 thousand. If we base the height off of Faber's figure - which he does not swear by - we have to throw out every other officially stated size. In no world is Faber's figure consistent with canon.

I oppose the change completely. Faber does not treat his statement on the height as factual or canon, and if we go by it, it calls every other size measurement into question. I do believe this was his intention, but the post given clearly implies that it is no longer canon, and the contradictions to it are far more numerous than Farshtey's WoG on the height of the GSR alone.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Mata Nui is much, much bigger than Denmark; Denmark's surface area is 43 thousand kilometers squared. Mata Nui's is roughly 138 thousand.

Actually, I did a quick check on that on paint.net using the magic wand tool considering how oddly shaped the island of Mata Nui is, I got an area of 69 thousand km^2 for the island, not 138 thousand km^2

Still bigger than Denmark, but not by that much

 

[Promestein]

Well, if that's more accurate, it still doesn't change much. All the same, it is a relevant increase in size, and the calc remains inaccurate - the size of the robot in Faber's statement is not actually built based off of Mata Nui's dimensions, and Faber himself calls it into doubt. I'd like to see your work, too; coastline measurements are notoriously wonky, and that's a massive drop off - most of Mata Nui is around its maximum width.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I'd like to see your work, too; coastline measurements are notoriously wonky, and that's a massive drop off - most of Mata Nui is around its maximum width.

Since you asked: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Hagane_no_Saiyajin/Mata_Nui_island_surface_area

 

[Promestein]

Roughly / at least 83 thousand makes more sense.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Roughly / at least 83 thousand makes more sense.

Actually, according to here Mata Nui is 357 kio long and 178 kio wide, making it 486.09 km in length and 243.86 km in width when converting based on here. This shrinks the area down to 61470.81986 km^2 (I've updated the calc accordingly)

 

[Promestein]

Okay.

I don't think any of this does any good for attempts to resize the GSR. My points still stand.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I don't think any of this does any good for attempts to resize the GSR. My points still stand.

Well, I think the main issue is that this would be Mata Nui on the 40 million foot GSR

And this would be it on the 3150 km GSR:

Clearly as you can see the smaller size makes sense with what we see explicitly in canon with the island covering it's whole face and not a small part of it. You've said above that the contradictions to [Faber's height] are far more numerous than Farshtey's WoG on the height of the GSR alone. But this contradiction isn't something that can be ignored, it's engrained in the lore that the island of Mata Nui covers the GSR's face.

And just out of curiousity, I'd like to know what are the list of contradictions for using Faber's number

 

[CloverDragon03]

I disagree with this even though the proposed size would be much more consistent, 40 million feet is something officially stated in the story.

Not super knowledgeable here but while we like having official statements, it's absolutely possible to invoke death of the author if necessary

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

boop

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

boop

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with Promestein's conclusions here.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I am fine with Promestein's conclusions here.

How do you justify this then?

This would be Mata Nui on the 40 million foot GSR

And this would be it on the 3150 km GSR:

Clearly as you can see the smaller size makes sense with what we see explicitly in canon with the island covering it's whole face and not a small part of it. This contradiction isn't something that can be ignored, it's engrained in the lore that the island of Mata Nui covers the GSR's face.

And just out of curiousity, I'd like to know what are the list of contradictions for using Faber's number

 

[FinePoint]

Literal artistic interpretation of size being different from canon size is very common in fiction, and logically so; I don't except most authors to do a ton of math just to ensure every single depiction of size is completely consistent.

If we have an actual statement of size, we should simply use that, even if it leads to some technical mathematical contradictions.

 

[Neutralino]

Literal artistic interpretation of size being different from canon size is very common in fiction, and logically so; I don't except most authors to do a ton of math just to ensure every single depiction of size is completely consistent.

If we have an actual statement of size, we should simply use that, even if it leads to some technical mathematical contradictions.

The difference here is that there are two irreconcilable given values: the robot's 40 million foot height and the island's 486 kilometers length. As seen in the above pictures, these numbers cannot both be true.

 

[FinePoint]

The difference here is that there are two irreconcilable given values: the robot's 40 million foot height and the island's 486 kilometers length. As seen in the above pictures, these numbers cannot both be true.

Well, technically it can be, assuming the head is far smaller than the body.

Which would make this just an artistic inconsistency.

 

[Tankirbmon]

Literal artistic interpretation of size being different from canon size is very common in fiction, and logically so; I don't except most authors to do a ton of math just to ensure every single depiction of size is completely consistent.

If we have an actual statement of size, we should simply use that, even if it leads to some technical mathematical contradictions.

They actually already did the math for us though

3150Km is the size designated by the original creator of the series Christian Faber

Greg farshtey later took over for the books and was the one who wrote the 40 million feet statement.

It's a debate of which we should take as canon

 

[FinePoint]

They actually already did the math for us though

3150Km is the size designated by the original creator of the series Christian Faber

Greg farshtey later took over for the books and was the one who wrote the 40 million feet statement.

It's a debate of which we should take as canon

I see. In that case we should preferably use the later statement by the person currently working for the series, which if I'm understanding correctly is the 40 million feet one.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I see. In that case we should preferably use the later statement by the person currently working for the series, which if I'm understanding correctly is the 40 million feet one.

The image was for the 3150 km height one though

 

[FinePoint]

The image was for the 3150 km height one though

My apologies, but I do not see your point.

 

[Tankirbmon]

The image was for the 3150 km height one though

Yes the image is for 3150Km

But this image was not released to the public until later, I believe it was only an internal document.

While 40 million feet indeed came later and was in actual material available to the audience

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

My apologies, but I do not see your point.

How do you justify this then?

This would be Mata Nui on the 40 million foot GSR

And this would be it on the 3150 km GSR:

Clearly as you can see the smaller size makes sense with what we see explicitly in canon with the island covering it's whole face and not a small part of it. This contradiction isn't something that can be ignored, it's engrained in the lore that the island of Mata Nui covers the GSR's face.

 

[Tankirbmon]

This is also true. It is a very plot critical point that the island covers it's whole face (the island is a mask and masks are the entire foundation of the series) And that the island has be destroyed so he can be properly awakened.

We also directly see what little is left of the island as he wakes here and it directly covers his face.



In short we have 2 canon sizes and 1 semi canon size.

The 2 canon sizes don't match what the story requires. While the semi canon size does match. I can see the argument for both. Personally I would use the 3150Km size as it seems more consistent with the rest of what we know.

 

[Catzlaflame]

3150Km is the size designated by the original creator of the series Christian Faber

Greg farshtey later took over for the books and was the one who wrote the 40 million feet statement.

Are the feats that are calced from faber or farshety’s era.

 

[Tankirbmon]

Are the feats that are calced from faber or farshety’s era.

Okay slight correction, technically both. Faber is the art director who's been there since the beginning and created the concept of the series . And he stayed all throughout and worked on the big reveal of the robot.

https://faberfiles.blogspot.com/2015/04/turaga-files-unboxing-legend-exhibit-022.html?m=1 (this is where the image comes from)

Greg farshtey was the writer of the books which is where most of the story takes place and took over after Cathy Hapka left.

So they actually share the era.

In that blog post Faber does say "what you see here is not canon or anything. It is the simple inspiration that I used when creating the outline of the Island back in 1999 and later on in 2007 when we had the task to make the giant robot come alive."

So it's art director/creator vs writer.