Soul Manipulation and The Real World

[Ogbunabali]

snip

I never said "postmodernism bad". The discussion devolved into a rabbit hole that had nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Then why can't the soul exist for the context of the thread

So let's just get settled here right

Everyone who says souls don't exist for the real world so soul manipulation doesn't work by that logic also says the following powers are useless

Life manipulation

Empathetic manipulation

Concept manipulation

Fate manipulation

Plot manipulation

Etc

 

[Assaltwaffle]

>Tfw this thread is averaging about a post every 10 seconds

 

[Wokistan]

Lets get back on topic here.

 

[Wokistan]

Then why can't the soul exist for the context of the thread

So let's just get settled here right

Everyone who says souls don't exist for the real world so soul manipulation doesn't work by that logic also says the following powers are useless

Life manipulation

Empathetic manipulation

Concept manipulation

Fate manipulation

Plot manipulation

Etc

• Sure, though bioelectricity and stuff exists
• Emotions exist
• This affects a reality, not the individual
• This affects a reality, not the individual
• This affects a reality, not the individual

 

[Sera_EX]

@Sera

Let's also scrap String Theory, then, since that's not falsifiable.

Saying that "living creatures don't have souls at all" is your belief.

No it's not. I'm Buddhist. To us, nothing has a soul, that's true that's what we believe but I didn't say I believe that, I clearly said there's no scientific evidence for it. I don't use my beliefs in my arguments.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I'm not even trying to talk about whether a soul exists or not, it's just that "everything has a soul unless stated otherwise" is a standard that is already used on the wiki, so real life should have to follow it as well, since unlike the outlier or calc examples, there is no reason not to. If you guys don't agree with this standard and want to change it, that's fine, but as things are right now, there is no reason not to use it in this case.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But they're not automatically equalized when they only apply to some people, such as ki or stands.

Which is exactly why using Mystic Eyes of Death is a bad example. Eyes of Death are, at it's most basic, actualizing the inevitable end of all things. The user "sees" lines of death but they don't literally exist in a cosmology or "intrinsic" quality sort of sense.

I understand what you are saying, but again, you didn't choose the best example. This is death manip that relies on something that exists in real life, the finite nature of things.

 

[Wokistan]

I'm not even trying to talk about whether a soul exists or not, it's just that "everything has a soul unless stated otherwise" is a standard that is already used on the wiki, so real life should have to follow it as well, since unlike the outlier or calc examples, there is no reason not to. If you guys don't agree with this standard and want to change it, that's fine, but as things are right now, there is no reason not to use it in this case.

If you didn't think I was questioning accepted standards with this thread then you may be missing something here.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

How about we just slap a big fat Possible resistance to soul manipulation. Since we don't know for sure and we should have the person making the OP specify if they have a soul for this match

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am with Cal. We are obviously overthinking things quite a bit.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Or we can just say that soul manipulation works since there is no proof the soul doesn't exist

 

[Wokistan]

How about we just slap a big fat Possible resistance to soul manipulation. Since we don't know for sure and we should have the person making the OP specify if they have a soul for this match

I am fine with this, in all honesty, though we should probably apply it to the other spiritual things and put something on the files akin to this.

Note. Whether or not spiritual elements can be equalized to real life profiles is a controversial issue. It has been decided that the OPs of threads should specify in the event of a vs debate how it is to be considered.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

If you didn't think I was questioning accepted standards with this thread then you may be missing something here.

If you want to change the standard, then yeah, I agree. The only problem I really have with "real life doesn't have souls" is that it doesn't follow the standard for no reason, but if the standard changes, then I'm fine with it.

 

[Wokistan]

Or we can just say that soul manipulation works since there is no proof the soul doesn't exist

But first the positive must be proven. This is not the default assumption in real life.

 

[The_Impress]

... this thread is feeling super derailed right now

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thomas had never seen such a mess.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Note. Whether or not spiritual elements can be equalized to real life profiles is a controversial issue. It has been decided that the OPs of threads should specify in the event of a vs debate how it is to be considered.

I'm 100% ok with this.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This isn't something we should compomise, as much as I'd like to. This needs a concrete yes or no. No possibilities.

 

[Agnaa]

Which is exactly why using Mystic Eyes of Death is a bad example. Eyes of Death are, at it's most basic, actualizing the inevitable end of all things. The user "sees" lines of death but they don't literally exist in a cosmology or "intrinsic" quality sort of sense.

I understand what you are saying, but again, you didn't choose the best example. This is death manip that relies on something that exists in real life, the finite nature of things.

Can MEoDP only kill things that are finite? I thought it could kill beings that resurrected.

I do have other examples, such as SCP-3043, Monika, and Kakegae Yuzuriha, who affect things that each individual has that aren't proven to exist in the real world.

We can't prove that each individual "has a story" that can be manipulated, or "has a game file", or "has a concept of oneself".

 

[Wokistan]

The issue is indeterminate, though. By real life proof standards a no is defaulted to in inconclusive situations, so it would then go to that if we were to reject that.

 

[Sera_EX]

I am with Cal. We are obviously overthinking things quite a bit.

Because there's too much focus on arguments that are only in vs matches, rather than our actual practice.

Not a single real world profile has "resistance to soul manipulation" on it.

 

[Agnaa]

How about we just slap a big fat Possible resistance to soul manipulation. Since we don't know for sure and we should have the person making the OP specify if they have a soul for this match

Is it also getting possible resistance to memory manip, mind manip, existence erasure, plot manip, and concept manip thanks to my examples?

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Cal Why? Possibly for ratings and powers exist for a reason. We don't know for sure. It is possible we have souls, it is possible we do not. So let's just stick a possibly and leave it up to the OP.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This thread belongs in r/Iamverysmart

 

[Wokistan]

I think it would less be resistances and more a note saying that equalizing mechanics needs to be decided by the OP in such situations, that or a weakness to the typewriter that entities that somehow lack these stories are hard to effect.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I say just leave everything as is and call it a day personally.

 

[Sera_EX]

Don't bring our profiles into this... this is a vs debating issue, not an indexing/profile creation issue.

 

[Agnaa]

I think it would less be resistances and more a note saying that equalizing mechanics needs to be decided by the OP in such situations, that or a weakness to the typewriter that entities that somehow lack these stories are hard to effect.

Not every soul manip user has a note that "entities that lack a soul are hard to effect".

 

[Wokistan]

Note in the SBA page under verse equalization then. The exact place for the note isn't really as important as the content of it.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I say just leave everything as is and call it a day personally.

Preach and amen.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

@Agnaa

I am pretty sure that is less of an issue with Real Life and more an issue with those verses. Also, why would her concept manip not work exactly?

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

What am I even looking at in this thread right now...?

 

[Agnaa]

Preach and amen.

This issue has already come up multiple times. Just ignoring it isn't really a solution.

 

[Wokistan]

"leave everything as is" isn't really helpful since we don't even know what the standard is, apparently.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This thread belongs in r/Iamverysmart

A lot of our threads do, tbh...

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

So, is the "everything has a soul unless stated otherwise" standard you guys use going to be changed? Legit asking.

 

[The_Impress]

Profiles have a relevance as to the fact that we are using "generic" fictional members of the species in our profiles rather than a specific real member, and therefore the "Real" World is a hypothetical and a fictional verse as well, hence it isn't special to not follow the rules of verse equalization

 

[Agnaa]

@Agnaa

I am pretty sure that is less of an issue with Real Life and more an issue with those verses. Also, why would her concept manip not work exactly?

It's not an issue with "those verses" because Real Life is the only verse that it won't be equalized onto. It is something intrinsic to Real Life here.

Her concept manip wouldn't let her use Metonymy to copy the abilities of the opponent if the opponent doesn't have a concept of "oneself" for her to copy. And concepts aren't proven to exist in the real world.

 

[Wokistan]

This thread belongs in r/Iamverysmart

Basically the entire website

This also isn't an argument