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Sonicverse: Tier 5 Revisions

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By the looks of it, you're trying to disprove a variable tier, so why is 'outlier' such a big deal now? Also a warning shot doesn't always mean you're making your attacks weaker. The actual meaning for warning shot is purposely misfiring your attack just to show your target what you're capable of.
 
Eggman used a machine to break apart the world into 7 using 1 emerald already as said in OP so, yes, it would've been that easy if it was fired with the intent to destroy the planet, not unlike the warning shot before it. The warning shot only had the opportunity when the emeralds were collected and brought on board so there never was an opportunity where they had 4 or less emeralds already on board in which they could've fired prematurely during Shadow the Hedgehog. This is a red herring since the intent of the shot was not to blow up the forking planet, only intimidate mankind, burden of proof falls on you to prove that it was intended to have such a higher effect.
 
I agree with Zamasu Chan that the Emeralds are variable. One emerald shouldn't be compareable to the amount of Hyper-Go-On power that created the tier 4 feat, at least not consistantly.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
By the looks of it, you're trying to disprove a variable tier, so why is 'outlier' such a big deal now? Also a warning shot doesn't always mean you're making your attacks weaker. The actual meaning for warning shot is purposely misfiring your attack just to show your target what you're capable of.
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One Chaos Emerald is not Tier 2. That's what I'm arguing is an outlier.

Otherwise, as I've said, you get Low 2-C Base cast via Shadow harnessing the "full power" of his Emerald. Never did I ever say anything about Emeralds not being variable either. I even argued that they were variable before with you to top it all off.
 
Mephistus said:
Eggman used a machine to break apart the world into 7 using 1 emerald already as said in OP so, yes, it would've been that easy if it was fired with the intent to destroy the planet, not unlike the warning shot before it. The warning shot only had the opportunity when the emeralds were collected and brought on board so there never was an opportunity where they had 4 or less emeralds already on board in which they could've fired prematurely during Shadow the Hedgehog. This is a red herring since the intent of the shot was not to blow up the forking planet, only intimidate mankind, burden of proof falls on you to prove that it was intended to have such a higher effect.
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True, but you'd still have to consider that the moon feat is technically A low 5-B one, due to your corrections of the feat. The moon has no relevance to Eggman so blowing it up wasn't his concern. So that's another lower feat.
 
Just fyi, the "correction" i did for this i dont actually agree fully with due to it being an egregious low end. The distance the moon chunks were cleared should be much higher than what i posted since the debris was moved and cleared well past just the depth of the cap it created and you can see the timeframe i used and the position of the last bit of debris at that time being far past the crater top. The KE could def be in 5-A range due to the moon chunks speed being much higher in that case if it ever got recalced by me.

I don't really see the point in doing it if the moon boom calc still abuses it being mostly off-screen so that's still a downplay on the speed aspect for KE regardless of what gets calced, and that Eggman could succ that much energy out of an emerald for the Advance opening just fine leaves not much little room for doubt that it should be that level via AP anyway, let alone the fact that area of effect was, in that case, is blatently disregarded since a good percentage part of the moon was intact while a section was blasted away at high speed.
 
5 emeralds did this, not that I don't agree with 5-B+ but it's clear that 5-B+ isn't the least they can output.

We're not scaling the Classics to their lowest feat, we're scaling them to what tier they should rightfully be. 5 Chaos Emeralds, if we assume one to be Planet level, can still perform a Country level feat. It's not like it's the peak of their power, and that feat was simply done to set an example iirc.

Also I think the low end for Supers should be high 4-C due to the star level statement from the Eclipse cannon and the Nega Wisp calc, which would scale to Mother Wisp.

The Eclipse Cannon isn't High 4-C, if you'd read the full OP you'd know that it was evaluated as 5-A.

Also, High 4-C is a supporting feat for Mother Wisp, she can still scale to the 4-A end of Super Sonic.

Stop bringing up the 6-B feat, because one emerald could also repel the Low 2-C Time Eater

Low 2-C's not a good example of AP, because it's mainly in the hax of the Chaos Emeralds to repel evil forces, and their hax are already 4D.

They vary, that's why it repealed the Time Eater.

Again, no it isn't. It's in their nature to repel dark forces. We see that when they automatically vaporize storms in Sonic Chaos, when the Master Emerald restored the entire planet by itself in Sonic Advance 3, when the Chaos Emeralds made Mephiles' shady goop disappear in Sonic 06 and when they repelled Time Eater.

Chaos Emeralds already warp space-time, which is 4D. Them using more 4D hax isn't a shocker.

The 6-B feat being a warning shot doesn't really disprove anything because that's the lowest feat. If a warning shot was that easy they could've just used 1 emerald.

The point of a warning shot is to not cause lots of damage. They had already set up the 5 Chaos Emeralds regardless, there's no point in saying they should've used one when it's already amped by 5.

By the looks of it, you're trying to disprove a variable tier, so why is 'outlier' such a big deal now?

If you don't want a variable tier, you want an exact rating, which is where the term "outlier" would be useful. This is a bad point.

Also a warning shot doesn't always mean you're making your attacks weaker. The actual meaning for warning shot is purposely misfiring your attack just to show your target what you're capable of.

This is also not true. A warning shot in this context means that "I can do worse, because this is just a fraction of what I can do." There's no solid definition of a warning shot, so you can't say it's misfiring something. Within this context, it's a fraction of capability meant to instill fear in others.

We already settled this in another thread. Stop backtracking and causing ad nauseum when there's nothing more to contribute.

True, but you'd still have to consider that the moon feat is technically A low 5-B one, due to your corrections of the feat. The moon has no relevance to Eggman so blowing it up wasn't his concern. So that's another lower feat.

Imagine that! You can have lower tier feats but still have higher power ratings? And that the authors aren't going to show off something's full potential every single time it does something? That's crazy!

Even if higher amounts caused lesser events, that in no regard contradicts a single Chaos Emerald consistently having Planetary abilities. The logical definition of "consistent" is that multiple premises can be true at the same time, and you can have lower feats and that not ruin your consistency.
 
I disagree with removing Tier 5, i'd rather put a "varies" stand point to make it less...... whatever this is, it's more practical and much easier, there's more evidence for a "varies" then removing a statistic, because if we go this route, it goes in and someone brings the 5-A things we have already pre-revision and i'm gonna guess the positives we got is put down for nothing.

and btw I somewhat agree with OP.
 
Even then, Supers shouldn't be below High 4-C anyways due to being > one random wisp.

Which is a supporting feat in itself for the Mother Wisp being 4-A.
 
I looked over this and some of you guys are staying assuming and capping S**t, there is no years in sonic lmfao, he's still 15-16, Cream is still 6, etc. these events happen in days/weeks/months.

Dark Gaia is too slept on in the debating community

Dark Gaia is the one that clapped Super Sonic to werehog state, the chaos emeralds was conjunctured with Super Sonic's power and it merely woke the Dark Gaia up from Slumber and nothing more even the guide states it https://info.sonicretro.org/images/...px-SonicUnleashed_Prima_digital_guide.pdf.jpg

this is post 06, sonic's planned date with amy was supposed to happen before the events of black knight which is a sequel to secret rings which takes place after 06

along with the fact that in Japanese, Dark Gaia was stated by Pickle to be Ripping the planet and it's "will" apart by existing. hence it's extremely passive.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Something or someone powered by a single emerald should not be 5-B+. 5 emeralds did this, not that I don't agree with 5-B+ but it's clear that 5-B+ isn't the least they can output. Remember the emeralds vary and putting all single emerald scaling at 5-B+ is like making every single Super Form 2-C. So I disagree with 5-B Classics for 'that' reason. I have other reasons for 5-B Classic Era REEEEEEEEEEEE</s>
Also I think the low end for Supers should be high 4-C due to the star level statement from the Eclipse cannon and the Nega Wisp calc, which would scale to Mother Wisp.
Click to expand...
The Emeralds powers vary. One instance they do a 6-B warning shot, the next they can pull in an entire continent that was calced to be 5-B, and they can repel a hit from the Time Eater and they were dormant in time. Classic Characters shouldn't even be that much weaker than their modern counterparts any way except a few moves they haven't learned yet.
 
@Imagine Don't derail please. This is focusing on the Base Cast, not any deities within Sonic. If the time comes to tackle that later, then we deal with it then. But not now.
 
But consistently, One Chaos Emerald has performed more Tier 5 feats than Tier 6 or Tier 2 feats. Hence why any argument that the Emeralds displayed powers greater or weaker than Tier 5 is moot since all of this has to do with consistency.
 
i'd rather put a "varies" stand point to make it less...... whatever this is, it's more practical and much easier, there's more evidence for a "varies" then removing a statistic

Actually, no there isn't. When any 5-A argument for Supers comes from a fight where the Super form stomped and a false assumption that the Chaos Emeralds were somehow weakened, no where does 5-A pop up as a tier for the Super forms. The variable tier is alright if it's from tier 4 to 2, but tier 5 for the Supers is absolutely not viable.

I looked over this and some of you guys are staying assuming and capping S**t, there is no years in sonic lmfao, he's still 15-16, Cream is still 6, etc. these events happen in days/weeks/months.

This is irrelevant, and thus a red herring fallacy.

Dark Gaia is the one that clapped Super Sonic to werehog state

What the hell are you even saying?

the chaos emeralds was conjunctured with Super Sonic's power and it merely woke the Dark Gaia up from Slumber and nothing more even the guide states it

Yeah, no one's arguing against the Chaos Emeralds waking up Dark Gaia. However, it wasn't Super Sonic's power, it was the Negative Chaos Energy from the Chaos Emeralds.

along with the fact that in Japanese, Dark Gaia was stated by Pickle to be Ripping the planet and it's "will" apart by existing. hence it's extremely passive.

How is this relevant in a Sonic upgrade thread? This is for the base cast, if you want to address Dark Gaia's tier make a CRT involving it.

Uhhh relax a little?

Don't know who this is directed at, but comments like these are personal imperatives and are what cause threads to go toxic. Please, if you have anything you want to say to someone personally, don't say it on the thread.

The Emeralds powers vary. One instance they do a 6-B warning shot, the next they can pull in an entire continent that was calced to be 5-B, and they can repel a hit from the Time Eater and they were dormant in time.

That's not an example of variation. The warning shot is meant to be weak, not to be their actual power. Their 5-B feats by themselves are what count. Repelling the Time Eater is hax as I already explained.
 
I never said that was their "actual power". What I'm trying to say is the Emeralds can do all these certain tiers of power due to having Infinite power and thus can be as strong or as weak due to certain tiers of aptitude, emotions, or a machine's purpose. I explained this in a past thread before.
 
Just to clarify, I'm not against this whatsoever. Just explaining the power to the Emeralds to a certain individual who still doesn't get the Chaos Emeralds at all.
 
"That's not an example of variation. The warning shot is meant to be weak, not to be their actual power. Their 5-B feats by themselves are what count. Repelling the Time Eater is hax as I already explained."

Yes it does bro, and no one said "actual power" in the first place, it has different statistics because of its mechanisms in lore. that was the point trying to be displayed.
 
I know you said yourself that you're derailing, and I appreciate that, but you two are getting worked up over nothing at this rate. Pretty sure you two are on the same side here anyways, even if you are aeguing over different points.

As a general statement, don't make this thread anything more than what it has to be, people.
 
ShakeResounding said:
I know you said yourself that you're derailing, and I appreciate that, but you two are getting worked up over nothing at this rate. Pretty sure you two are on the same side here anyways, even if you are aeguing over different points.
As a general statement, don't make this thread anything more than what it has to be, people.
Click to expand...
I literally just said I was agreeing to the OP like as soon as i dropped that first comment...
 
Gilad Hyperstar said:
Please keep the thread respectful, the last thing we need is yet another Sonic thread turned into a shitstorm
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Don't worry. This is just how we talk with each other. No hard feelings on either party.
 
MYHERO said:
Don't worry. This is just how we talk with each other. No hard feelings on either party.
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If so, then fine. But it pains me to see Sonic threads gets closed quickly for these reasons
 
That usually happens when people provoke one another.

Take a look at the 5-B upgrade thread. Aside from some things that were said in a rude tone, that thread was 100% civil.
 
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